LE Change the EXP-System to a classic version!

[godlikeueber]

hey,

 

im playing my 170th hour, still having fun, still thinking its a great game.

 

planning my 2nd playthrough when some good mod compilations (like wanderers edition etc.) come out, hopefully this summer.

 

just wanted to drop the #1 reason i wont start the rerun right away, since i read a LOT about how people noticed overpowered crafting but nothing about the horrible leveling system which was a bit improved since oblivion but imo still is a real gamebreaker.

 

just include classic exp-usage.

 

killing monsters - some xp

killing huge monsters - some more xp

completing (side)quests - high xp, bonus for optional targets

 

advantages:

+ doing sidequests actually makes sense, even if you dont find better gear

+ controlled leveling instead of "enchant 400 daggers to reach level 100 and become able to do some "real" double-enchanting afterwards"

+ better base for balancing, not all skills can reach max. level just by repeating s### endlessly

 

further ideas:

o include classic attribute-modifiers (SPECIAL, manual selection when leveling up) to force players to concentrate on their selected playing style instead of becoming "god".

o enchantments and smithing (=sharpening the blade) should wear off after a while to balance out crafting, no more combination of crafting skills (fortify xy)

o add more resistances to enemies, also some should be only vulnerable to fire/ice/shock, not to physical attacks

o disable regneration of mana/health

o disable levelscaling of enemies and loot

o include the "better sneaking/detection" and "autoaim off" mods which are already available

 

thank you for reading.

[WastelandAssassin]

on the other hand, let me tell you what i was able to do after using Oblivion XP

 

i was able to create restoration spells that were almost godly, while i never truly practiced restoration spells, especially not enough to master the art

 

so an experience leveling system is far from perfect as well, and much more overpowering

 

besides, can you really put a tag on a simple 5 minute quest, or drop the consideration on how things were done??

after all, you can do a simple hack n' slash game and become a true master of all using an experience system, while with the existing system you only improve what you use, so you'll only be a master through time and effort, which i believe is just how it should be

 

that's of course my view on it all, and you don't have to agree with it

[JanusForbeare]

I want to see a levelling fix, but I don't think the D&D approach is the way to go. Maybe I'm just a TES junkie, but I feel it would fly in the face of the entire tradition of the games. I would rather see crafting experience calculated separately from levelling experience, as it's done in so many MMORPGs out there.

[godlikeueber]

on the other hand, let me tell you what i was able to do after using Oblivion XP

 

i was able to create restoration spells that were almost godly, while i never truly practiced restoration spells, especially not enough to master the art

 

so an experience leveling system is far from perfect as well, and much more overpowering

 

besides, can you really put a tag on a simple 5 minute quest, or drop the consideration on how things were done??

after all, you can do a simple hack n' slash game and become a true master of all using an experience system, while with the existing system you only improve what you use, so you'll only be a master through time and effort, which i believe is just how it should be

 

that's of course my view on it all, and you don't have to agree with it

i guess its really about taste, but i like nothing better than returning to my quest-giver and receive my level-up for doing his bidding. also, just swinging a sword constantly doesnt give you better technique in real life either, you'd have to visit trainers for this (like in gothic)...

honestly: what worth are 400 daggers you cant really use afterwards because you lacked the double-enchanting perk? and if you only enchant things you actually USE you would never reach level 100 (except by paying 5 training sessions per level, but that would be only possible for 1 skill AND a break with the learningbydoing-idea).

Edited January 8, 2012 by godlikeueber

[godlikeueber]

I want to see a levelling fix, but I don't think the D&D approach is the way to go. Maybe I'm just a TES junkie, but I feel it would fly in the face of the entire tradition of the games. I would rather see crafting experience calculated separately from levelling experience, as it's done in so many MMORPGs out there.

well you really made me think there, though i wouldnt call it "d&d" approach, its more like "nearly every rpg except TES" approach. and thats because its the most popular one there is.

 

maybe one could rework the trainer-factor of skyrim...

[Lunytic]

What I don't get is why people bash on mod requests for specific play-styles. The OP likes XP-based leveling. Personally, I think the learn by doing feels better (though exploitable) but all that means is I wouldn't download an XP-based mod.

 

My guess is there are a lot of people who will use an XP-based mod since the Oblivion equivalent looks like right now it's the 40th most endorsed TES-IV mod out of the top 100 on Nexus for Oblivion.

 

****

 

Are you thinking you just want a pure XP mod, or a dual-XP mod. Where not only do you get XP from questing, but each skill has an XP tracker as well, so when you level up you are restricted to only improving those areas you worked on? That way you can't uber a skill you don't use until it's powerful.

[godlikeueber]

thank you for your reply, i think the other posters were polite enough; we all know that playing games is a very personal experience and everyone has certain preferences due to personal gaming history, i guess there is no god or bad when it comes to this. every system has its weaknesses...

 

never thought about dual xp'ing. sounds like a nice idea, though i did not like eg the attributesystem of morrowind where certain skills were linked to certain attributes.

to minimize problems with this id prefer just to keep it simple. i think the step they took with skyrim wasnt bad when it comes to learning-by-doing-playstyle.

though i really must admit that this style seems to be most enjoyable when one doesnt really pay attention to it since exploits are really bound to happen. a friend of mine plays skyrim on a very casual level and thinks its the most intuitve, balanced system ever. also i see no problem with leveling up the usual way: if you invest into mace weapons of course you are going to use them from there on, so its not really an immersion breaker to me. when it comes to combat and sneak skills i dont find skyrim half as bad, but crafting is really kind of annoying to me and also breaks the economy system of the game. you are an adventurer, why would you spend 20 hours on the forge?

i liked BG2 crafting best - find the components, bring it to the smith and get your balanced unique weapon out of it.

[gahnzz]

The big thing that bugs me about the XP is that training can advance your level. I'd like the skill point, but if I train with a trainer, it's not a real-world experience... so I'd divorce the training points from level advancement.

[JanusForbeare]

What I don't get is why people bash on mod requests for specific play-styles. The OP likes XP-based leveling. Personally, I think the learn by doing feels better (though exploitable) but all that means is I wouldn't download an XP-based mod.

 

As the OP said, no one is "bashing" anything. The forums are a place for intelligent debate, and that's exactly what's happening here.

 

The argument isn't over whether a "Classic XP" system should exist. It's over personal preferences and the best way to improve the levelling mechanics. The OP makes a solid point when he mentions the ease with which powerlevellers can exploit the crafting system. Some people may find this ideal (which I don't understand; it's not a MMORPG, there's no one to compete with... why not take it slow and enjoy the ride?) but most of us find it immersion-breaking and boring.

 

It seems that the one thing that we all agree on is that crafting skill progression should have little or no bearing on your combat/adventuring experience. Whether this addressed by simplifying crafting along the BG2 model as suggested by the OP, or by calculating the experience separately, is really a matter of your personal playstyle. Regardless of what individual modders decide to do when they inevitably tackle this issue, I hope that they'll ALL take what we've said about crafting to heart.

[gloomygrim]

I.M.O the only crap thing is how quick it levels up. I loved morrowinds half way through the game and your still not past 60 on half your skills but leveling the was pretty useless in morrowind, oblivions was good as skills had a much more important point in being leveled.

 

Skyrims leveling is much to easy i really dislike that aspect of it but the perks.....ah i cant lie i like them, honning a specific aspect of a skill rather than a whole makes the PC more unique.

 

Having it XP based......i'd try it, it could work but the big thing is how much time it would take to re-do the leveling system, i cant see it being a small task, every enemy, quests, weapons, NPC's would need to be changed to give corisponding xp, it would not be un-doable but it would be a major undertaking. One i would support none the less.