Upcoming AMA with Elianora

[silencer711]

@ELIANORA - Congrats gurl! =D

 

(This Applies to *EVERYONE* ; Mod Authors & Users alike)

 

I completely agree with telling certain folks to *F* off if they come across as rude or condescending, or simply did not care to appropriately word their comments in such a way to dispel any doubt as to the message's true intent.

 

Not that I encourage unacceptable behavior in general, it's that I encourage *NEGATIVE PEOPLE* to be publicly humiliated for their lack of good will, humility, social aptitude, moral compass, or a combination of these. -So that it associates certain choices with a negative outcome within the user's mind.

 

"If you SOUND rude, you ARE rude."

 

 

The LESSON for today is:

"PERCEPTION IS REALITY. Comment with grace."

 

 

Very Respectfully,

-Doc "Silencer"

 

 

[HermanMODSTER]

Oh no the same throll vs throllhunter stuff just like in her old mod comments. Just let it be. Anyway thank you Eli. @ Eli Your in my heart. Hope it´s not too hard for you to stay calm after reading this kind of bullshit again. From here it´s just : Good luck! We got your back! Go get em! Edited January 13, 2017 by HermanMODSTER

[HermanMODSTER]

In response to post #46567880. #46574150 is also a reply to the same post.

rwallicekruger wrote: One of the many reasons I love Elianora is merely because of coffee. Her mods are brilliant but the coffee mods are what made me adore her work

moxica wrote: Agreed!
That was my introduction to her.
Any friend of coffee is a friend of mine.

I assume you partake?

A true queen of bean that lady is.

[HermanMODSTER]

In response to post #46507135.

bLakZmOkeareOoouYyye wrote:

Look at all these users complaining about mod authors being rude, it's called being tired of your s#*!. This is exactly why I removed all my mods from nexus, I'm done with all these people who expect some sort of vip service on top of giving them free content. Still waiting for my account to be closed here btw, else I might spout out more dangerous words

I don´t know what they exactly expect. Most of them must be to stupid to use NMM. If they don´t / can´t read the decriptions... well it´s always the authors fault if "The mod causes bugs". And they always demand x versions to work with x mods. If i am not right? Well modauthors create mods for themselves or friends and second for the rest of the stupid world. And duh........ no wonder they stop sharing if we users are the problem.

[HermanMODSTER]

In response to post #46506815.

Gambit77 wrote: Man, there are some serious haters up in here. I'd like to chime in and say as someone with a fairly good amount of interactions with Eli that I find her to be quite pleasant, helpful, kind, and funny. I consider her friendship material, and I'm picky. Chances are, if you have a bad relationship with her, it's all your fault.
These pathetic examples of her unacceptable behavior: her FAQs, disclaimers, and comment closure stickies. Are you kidding me? If you have an issue with that stuff, guess what, you have an issue.
Or when you do a test where you criticize someone just to see if you'll get banned, you have an issue.
Complaining about a lack of a bug report section, when the mod is fairly straightforward, and is thoroughly tested and known to be bug-free, you have an issue.
When you complain about a closed comment section, because you feel entitled to ask your own question (which has probably already been asked and answered, probably many times, you're just to lazy to look or learn how to use search engines) you have an issue.
People who brag about their philanthropy to use as a shield from criticism, you have two issues. First, if you're bragging about it, you're doing it for the wrong reason. Second, it doesn't excuse your behavior.
People who want to complain about other peoples personalities, you have an issue, and let me save you a little money on therapy, it's probably projection.

Before comments where blocked i´ve never seen anything realy rude or offensive written by her. But after the shitstorms when she was attacked for no mentaly sane explainable reasons. I wonder how much icecream went down her throat because of all the crap that was thrown at her. Sometimes i had to take a drink or two after reading all this s#*!. I stoped defending her because she said that if the people that like her wouldn´t stop the shitstorm would never end. I say those lovely throlls didn´t even always had an issue it´s just that you can´t have a discussion with stupid people.

[HermanMODSTER]

In response to post #46506580. #46509140, #46511700 are all replies on the same post.

GarnetSan wrote: I believe this comment from jim_uk deserves a highlight and a separate comment response

Mod authors are human beings, they're not machines who can keep ignoring all the crap some have to put up with.

Someone puts days, weeks or even months into making a mod, hundreds of hours of unpaid work could have gone into it, they upload it and what do they get? I want this, I want that, I don't like this, I don't like that, do this, do that, questions from idiots who haven't read the readme or those so thick they have to call customer services to get instructions on how to turn their PCs on.

Most of us will only get annoying comments under our files once in a blue moon and it's easy to deal with that, the major modders get a lot more and it's enough wear anyone down.

The rise of automated tools like NMM have seen a decline in the knowledge of the average user, they don't have to learn so they don't bother, they shove more and more stuff into their games until it breaks, then they blame the modders. There was a time when users could make simple adjustments to mods or fix mods themselves, these days they throw a hissy fit at the author and demand the author does it.

I'd like to add something to that last paragraph: The average uninformed user doesn't know how long the process of making a mod is, nor how long does it take to learn how to do it.

Let's break down the numbers, shall we?

Elianora has 85 mods in Nexus right now. Let's put that a mod takes around 36 hours to put together (6 hours over 6 days) I know this is way lower than the actual number, but let's go along with it just for the sake of it. That equals to 3060 hours she has spent creating FREE content for users who may or may not appreciate her work, which is more time than most users even have in any game.

Now lets say that each of those mods get around 500 posts(the real number is higher) and that 30% of those comments are users that either have a particular request for you to change the mod in some way they like or report that their mod is not working properly for some reason. These last ones, sometimes instead of searching on the internet the causes of why it could have failed, which are very common and have a really easy line of troubleshooting and solving, they just decide to post "It doesn't work/It CTD's(and it's your fault)").

That's about 165 people that tell you to change what you have worked on for 36 hours just because they either don't like or don't know how it works, and 14000 people on your overall work of 3000 hours.

Now, with the numbers made, I don't think anyone could blame her for being "not nice" and/or blocking some comments that say directly "I don't like your attitude", because she doesn't have any responsability to take those comments. This isn't a social network, this is a sharing network.

Also, with the numbers in hand, if you had followed troubleshooting guides, studied your stuff on how to fix it and you couldn't fix it or if you had a request you tried to do it and couldn't do it and posted it in the comment section and the comment was ignored, sorry buddy, you were the needle in the haystack.

Finally, I have enjoyed Elianora's work for years now and I have been inspired by her dedication to create my own content. I have never known her for being rude or ill mannered, and it shows in that almost every major mod created in the FO4 and Skyrim has her credited as helping the mod creator.

I and many other members of the community love what she is and has been(for years) doing, which is SHARING quality content to any user that wants it.
Best of luck to you in the interview Elianora.

Xazomn wrote: last part of Jims Text.

When i found Nexus Mods for the first time i didn't had a clue about games like Fallout or creating content for them, oh my. Far above my head but i whanted to know how it works, and yes it whasn't all easy in the beginning and using other peoples mods throwing into my game caused a lot of issues. But to work on my own mods makes me installing wiser my mods and rarely CTD because of a mod from an other authors.

What i realy like to say is, becuase i tryed to figure it all out i noticed in all those years how much time,effort and love that gets into the modding and apreciate other modders even more that makes bigger and better mods then i even can create.

Some people can be very rude or give cristism that isn't constructive but more to bash on the modpage,or yelling "i don't like it or it isn't "lore" enough. I can't do anything with that, it's not helping for making the mod better or removing a bug. It's often more like a slap right into your face for a mod that is created often for ya own personal intrest or taste and love to share . I'm not that great of a modder or got many huge mods & i don't know Elianora personaly. I can imagine that some people may think that she's is being rude to mod users, but that will not say that she is that way personaly to. I react different to on my modpage to then personal to my nexus friends. I can't believe she is that bad at all as many people try to convince other here.

Be objective and just meet & talk with her. Make up your own mind insted following others that got an issue with a modcreator.

GarnetSan wrote: I'm... not sure if I you are saying I'm right, just quoting or...

90% of the mod's comments were ignorance from people who didn't read sticky/description or watch the instructional video, and used an ancient version of the mod. 5 % were whining that I'm rude and 5 % were actual useful comments. So they've been purged. * Facepalming *

[Mentha]

I'm ashamed to say that I still like having blinders on to the true nature of people. All I want to say is there used to be a sign that you would see all over the place when I was younger. It read, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." That about sums it up. Elianora doesn't owe anything to anybody. She can allow anybody or nobody access to her mods. It's her decision and I support her with that. If you think you can live without her mods and her contribution to the modding community then you really need to evaluate every mod out there because I can almost guarantee about 80% of the modders out there for Fallout and Skyrim have either used something she has made or swiped an idea off of her or used one of her tutorials. Or there are a rare few who just wanted to see if they could do it better than she and used at least one of Elianora's mods as a plumb line.

 

I truly admire Elianora's work. She tends to make mods a lot faster than the rest of us can. I am constantly finding a place I want to beautify or edit only to find out days later and hours into a project that she has already done it. I have about 50 unfinished or unpublished mods because of it. That is my only peeve with her though. It only makes me strive to be faster and more efficient. She is an amazing mod author and does put up with a lot of gripes from people she shouldn't have to.

 

Kudos to Elianora for making a lot of us mod authors strive for bigger and better things.

[playingskyrim]

.

[HermanMODSTER]

In response to post #46404720. #46408735 is also a reply to the same post.

ReaperTai wrote: Sadly I will be at work but look forward to hearing the audio version after.

@Elianora- Congrats and keep doing what you do. Never let people turn you off of something you enjoy. You are one of the authors that inspired me to learn.

To the haters - Is there really any benefit to anybody saying somebodies mod sucks/needs to be completely diff/not fun/etc. These are the kind of comments that make great artists leave and cost all of us better content/gaming experience. I have been using mods for over 4 years and I only leave suggestions for improvements or bugs or praise. Do I get upset if told no to a suggestion....no I don't. Because it is their vision not mine. Sometimes the authors agree it is a good idea, sometimes they don't. Ultimately it is their call if they want to change something or not. Bugging them or saying your mean doesn't help your case. Not saying you have to be all yes sir/ma'am but at least be decent about it. All of the authors I have talked to over the years have been decent with me because I am respectful and decent with them. Also keep in mind many of the great authors mods have been stolen before ready (yes this has gotten better but the damage has been done) and complaints directed back to orig author and all kinds of bull****. IMO many have a right to be upset about the treatment they have received after providing wonderful free content for your game.

Learn to do some of it yourself is great advice. Even if you never make/publish a mod check out some of the tutorials and see the hoops authors have to go through to make that mod you just griped and moaned about. I did and ya know what, it made me want to make my own mods just because people like Elianora and NukaMage and many others have taken the time to make these wonderful mods AND wonderful videos telling all of us exactly how to do what they do. And they do all of this for...wait for it...FREE!! IMO the only people that have an excuse are the ones on a old pc that cant run CK/fo4edit. And that still doesn't excuse being a dick about something you didn't make/pay for (donations don't count).

As to race/culture - personally I don't care where ya from, rude is rude. I live in the US and yes many countries don't like the US. Guess what....unless you go look at what country they are from you wont know and then they are just people. Not european/american/chinese/german/etc but people. People who enjoy the same thing you do, playing these games and making them better. When people ask me where I am from I say earth. If we as people can get by these stupid racial stereotypes we could be living in a star trek universe instead of the days leading to the war that created the wasteland.

In short, don't be a dick about something you didn't make/buy, read the description/posts and take a couple hours to learn something before posting bad crap about other peoples work. or at least don't post it, it serves no purpose and costs the community great authors. Support don't criticize. And as said before, ya don't have to like them but at least respect them for what they have done.

Just my 2 cents and some food for thought.

Kazuya482 wrote: People aren't berating her mods or abilities, they're talking about her less than pleasant attitude, and sometimes outright hostile responses to the simplest of comments or questions.

In short, don't be a dick about something you didn't make/buy, read the description/posts and take a couple hours to learn something before posting bad crap about other peoples work. or at least don't post it, it serves no purpose and costs the community great authors. Support don't criticize. And as said before, ya don't have to like them but at least respect them for what they have done.
Ahmen reverend.

[HermanMODSTER]

In response to post #46364080. #46364325, #46367235, #46368205, #46369815, #46369930, #46370390, #46374095, #46374390, #46374475, #46374920, #46376420, #46377285, #46378940, #46379215, #46386540, #46389205, #46389595, #46389810, #46392420, #46393260, #46397745, #46399790, #46400835, #46401120, #46401925, #46402520, #46409160, #46409495, #46409765, #46410010, #46411275, #46412080, #46412965, #46413505, #46417005, #46418845, #46423325, #46427465, #46431210, #46431425, #46434125, #46434485, #46441710, #46444105, #46444495, #46446190, #46449670, #46451245, #46451500, #46455475, #46456420, #46459075, #46460450, #46536270 are all replies on the same post.

Kevin843 wrote: I love your mods, just wish you were a little nicer in the comments

RaffTheSweetling wrote: I agree. Talent and arrogance seem to go hand-in-hand sometimes.

LanceHolland90 wrote: Shes a very popular modder and is constantly barraged by stupid questions. Over the years it has taken it's toll - and the result is what you experience today.

I am no fanboy, but I respect her work, and as you have so eloquently put, talent and arrogance do often go hand in hand.

Kastrenzo wrote: Nah, that's no excuse to be arrogant with everyone, Make mention of her attitude and she presses the safe space button and bans you from her content.

I guess it's too bad for her that you can only do it to someone once, Someone's on a power trip.

It's refreshing to see that so many others, whether just snide comments or genuine distaste for the person, acknowledge what she is.

Ombragine wrote: Indeed

I have experimented this with her. I posted a comment about her attitude because her answer to someone was very harsh and sadly i got a ban from her content.

This is not a good way.

Viorotica wrote: Yeah she's like a less dickish version of DDProductions, and we all know what EVENTUALLY happened to him.

But whatever, no excuses for a bad attitude really, just because some people act like bellends doesn't mean you should treat anyone with even any slightly negativity like one.

Kastrenzo wrote: In most other mediums on the internet, like a store front for example, like ebay. when the customers or consumers are being harrassed and insulted, the seller, provider, creator, whatever, normally gets punished.

Thats what's always kind of astonished me about Elinora, first off was how completely hostile she is to the slightest bit of criticism, and how she takes advantage of The Nexus' complete lack of involvement and interference with individual bans from an authors content,


in other words. An author can choose to ban individuals from their stuff. and Nexus won't do anything about it, and they say you have to sort it out with them. She takes full advantage of that and bounces anyone who even so much as breathes funny on her it seems.

And, I'm not grumbling about getting my ban, I really could care less. There's never been anything she's made that ever remotely interested me, and I'll gladly take a personal ban if it means higlighting some extremley cancerous behaivor from a "top modder"

I'm just really surprised to see that she is STILL doing it.

Purgey wrote: I'm liking some of the people here :)

jim_uk wrote: @Kastrenzo You are not a customer or consumer, she's willingly sharing something she created for free, she is under no obligation to put up with people making demands, whining and generally being arsehats. As for bans, the mods belong to the author and if they don't want an certain individual having access to their mods then that is their right.

Ethreon wrote: Whether you like the modder or not, best would be to not start a huge argument here about it. Eh?

Dark0ne wrote: If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it. Basically the founding principle of the Nexus. Some of you guys seem to have forgotten that. I'll be moderating these comments as necessary.

In most other mediums on the internet, like a store front for example, like ebay. when the customers or consumers are being harrassed and insulted, the seller, provider, creator, whatever, normally gets punished.

Elianora isn't selling anything, so your analogy is completely moot. The Nexus is not a storefront. It's not a seller/consumer environment -- at all. If it was then yes, of course, there would need to be some accountability and I'm sure Elianora and others would understand that and revise how they choose to respond to the more negative elements of the community more accordingly. But it's not, so there's no point even discussing that line of thought.

Relevant analogies to the Nexus are free content distribution platforms. YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and so on. Guess what they all have in common with the Nexus? They provide the original authors of content with the tools to moderate their own content how they see fit.

And, I'm not grumbling about getting my ban, I really could care less. There's never been anything she's made that ever remotely interested me, and I'll gladly take a personal ban if it means higlighting some extremley cancerous behaivor from a "top modder"

If you don't care about her content, how did you even manage to get a ban? What were you doing on her pages in the first place? Seems really silly to me. Why waste your time if you don't care? That's a rhetorical question, really. You obviously do care, else you wouldn't be mentioning it here trying to "out" her. So lets just move on, and stop being silly.

LethalThreat wrote: "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it." A rule that only applies to users and not authors. I don't understand why authors are given a free pass and are allowed to be assholes to their users while the users are the ones to get punished. There's no reason authors can't be a little more respectful and less rude to their users. If "you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it" should be reminded to anyone, be sure to remind the authors too. No reason for the rudeness, if the users get on their nerves it isn't hard to ignore them or delete the comment. You'd think they would be more kind and helpful, it's unfortunate that finding a kind and helpful author here is like finding a needle in a haystack.

I suppose the most simple solution for common users is to not engage with people here anymore, just get your mods and run - because no matter what, it will always be their fault. Sad to see this is where we're at now.

Then again, no one can really do anything here. Authors will continue to be arrogant asses, users will continue to be ignorant asses. Just a shame the users get a punch in the face for something harmless while authors are given a trophy for being pricks.

*Not applied to all authors. Sadly the popular and arrogant authors have given the reputation for all mod authors (or popular users) to be arrogant assholes too. Which not all of us are!

Ethreon wrote: Not applying to 95% of the userbase here, author or user. Trying to generalize further involves a lot of ignorance from the person generalizing.

jim_uk wrote: Mod authors are human beings, they're not machines who can keep ignoring all the crap some have to put up with.

Someone puts days, weeks or even months into making a mod, hundreds of hours of unpaid work could have gone into it, they upload it and what do they get? I want this, I want that, I don't like this, I don't like that, do this, do that, questions from idiots who haven't read the readme or those so thick they have to call customer services to get instructions on how to turn their PCs on.

Most of us will only get annoying comments under our files once in a blue moon and it's easy to deal with that, the major modders get a lot more and it's enough wear anyone down.

The rise of automated tools like NMM have seen a decline in the knowledge of the average user, they don't have to learn so they don't bother, they shove more and more stuff into their games until it breaks, then they blame the modders. There was a time when users could make simple adjustments to mods or fix mods themselves, these days they throw a hissy fit at the author and demand the author does it.

Ombragine wrote: A lot of users are not assholes and a lot of authors are really kindly and are doing their best to enhance experience with all what they do for end users.

This is apply to a small part, always same people i like to say and it is really fun to see that this applies between authors themself too.

And, sadly, she is inside. A good way will be for her to change all her mod pages and remove agressive contains, disclamers, etc.

Look yourself : http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/2829/? and it is not the only one.

It only gives a bad picture for both, authors and users. Is it good to be like that ?

EMS60 wrote: @jim-uk: Thanks. Your comment should be highlighted.

phantompally76 wrote: It's no secret that users and authors are subject to two completely different sets of rules and guidelines on this site. Several of the most "prolific" authors are habitual offenders of policies that would result in permabans for any single user, yet they are shielded by the site owner and moderators, because those authors generate clicks (ad revenue) for the site. It's a massively hypocritical and transparent double-standard.

There are exceptions, of course. Not every single "prolific" mod author is a jerk. I would never lump someone like Chesko in that category, because he goes out of his way to be courteous, even when a user is trying to flame him. Even at his worst (which rarely happens), he still treats people the way I can only imagine he wants to be treated himself.

A philosophy I wish other mod authors would adapt. Users as well, if I'm honest.

Kastrenzo wrote: Yeah no, I'm not going to accept that authors can have free reign to be rude and obnoxious where users have to kiss their feet and that we should feel thankful for their mods when it comes at the cost of them throwing fits and getting away with it.

@ Dark0ne

The analogy to a seller/buyer, still applies. just with author/end user

Also, she banned me from her page after I looked at one of her compliation mods and made a comment on her attitide. AFTER that, I couldnt care less about her content.

So I insist, I don't really care. I had forgotten she existed until this came up, and when I saw others complaining that she's a toxic individual. I thought I'd jump on the bandwagon too.


All in all, I saw a comment someone made about thinking most people should just treat Nexus as a "pick up and go", get your mods and get out, because the community here is surprising toxic. I'm still laughing at that guy who shut down all of his mods to Protest Donald Trump during the US election on the Skyrim Nexus

Kastrenzo wrote: @Kevin Careful now, you're speaking a lot of truth. wouldn't want the law to take notice.


@Dark0ne and moderation in general - I think you really just need to acknowledge, whether to yourself, or to the public, that you decided to feature a very controversial author. That's really all that this is.

Arthmoor wrote:

The analogy to a seller/buyer, still applies. just with author/end user

Maybe when people are paying for the content they can expect this, but not before.

Dark0ne wrote: No. A seller/buyer relationship is nowhere near the same relationship as a mod author/mod user relationship. Nowhere near at all. The fact you think they are the same speaks volumes on the issues you're trying to raise here.

@Dark0ne and moderation in general - I think you really just need to acknowledge, whether to yourself, or to the public, that you decided to feature a very controversial author. That's really all that this is.

We feature, and shall continue to feature, mod authors from all different attitudes, outlooks, creeds, classes, cultures, countries and so on and so forth. Widely referred to as "human beings" and "people" in the real world.

I'm sorry you're upset over the fact we've chosen to feature a mod author you personally disagree with. If our job was to find mod authors that everyone in this community liked/got on well with/enjoyed and used all the work they did then we wouldn't be doing any features at all. You'll note that we've interviewed plenty of mod authors over the past few months, and they've all been quite unique and different personalities.

jim_uk wrote:

The analogy to a seller/buyer, still applies. just with author/end user

Then ask the author for a refund, get the nothing whatsoever you paid her back.

RetroDaddy wrote: Really, Y'all need to understand the difference between arrogance and confidence. Being a top modder, she gets so many comments by people that don't read available posted information before asking questions already covered. It gets really trying to maintain civility, so put your frustration not on the author but the ones who are too lazy to read.

wolfrevan5555 wrote: @Dark0ne

Just wanna reply to this real quick.

>If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it. Basically the founding principle of the Nexus. Some of you guys seem to have forgotten that. I'll be moderating these comments as necessary.

There's a difference between hating on something and criticizing. The Nexus is fond of running a borderline Nazi-Germany type system (in my experience) where if you don't circle-jerk a mod 100%, and instead appreciate the mod but offer *CONSTRUCTIVE* Criticism (IE: Good mod, but I have a problem with <X> and would recommend <Y> as a solution), you're likely to get bashed and *potentially* even banned. Modders turning their comments into safespaces because any sort of constructive criticism "triggers" them is pretty pathetic. I understand not wanting your comments to devolve into unrewarding shithole where you go to to simply offer criticism and report bugs and such and never *thank* the author, instead having it as a mostly positive place, but the way the Nexus handles comment sections is just a complete joke. Punishment for being constructive is dumb. Punishment for being a shithead who bashes someone or unconstructively bashes the mod is dumb. (EDIT: Brainfart, contradicted what I had just said after stating what I had meant. My bad. Leaving it there with a strikethrough to indicate what part it was, though.)

I honestly feel like a sort of "thumbs down" system would really help to fix this problem. If people disagree with a mod *so much* and are so sick and tired of seeing that type of mod, they're going to want their voices heard. I think you'd be surprised to hear how many people hate some genres of mods but *can't* voice their opinions on the matter for fear of the banhammer, thus they're stuck in a repetitive cycle of seeing hated mods endlessly and other modders seeing these mods "doing well" because nobody bashes them, thus deciding to make those types of mods (See: Skimpy armor). If people could simply click a "thumbs down" button to express distaste (and if they commented, the "thumbs down" icon would be attached to that comment to indicate what their opinion is) while not worrying about punishment, the quality of mods would greatly improve and the community would become a lot less tense overall. Then again, from the years I've been on the Nexus I've seen it as being this type of horrifying "forced smile" type thing. You have to be positive. You have to be appreciative. Gotta keep that up, can't actually be honest with anything or you could be punished.

Also, sorry about the oversized rant. Gonna add a TL;DR for convenience.

TL;DR People need to learn the difference between useless criticism and constructive criticism. Being able to constructively criticize a mod (respectfully) would be very useful and would help to improve the quality of mods on the Nexus, and, in my opinion, help some of the "salty Nexus vets" feel a bit better as they can finally voice their opinions without feeling like they might be persecuted for it. A simple "Thumbs Down" type system, with the thumbs down symbol tied to your comment, I think would help to fix this and would greatly help to show the general consensus on some types of mods, something I feel is woefully lacking due to the fear of being punished.

Madcat221 wrote: Thumbs-down voting option was tried... it was abused. Hence, why it's not around here anymore.

wolfrevan5555 wrote: Did it hide mods or anything? I figured having it more as a background thing that doesn't effect mod visibility or anything, just allows people to display their opinion freely. Shouldn't negatively impact the mod.

Ethreon wrote: tl;dr of your comment
- we don't need dislike features, this is not facebook.
- constructive criticism is not deleted (or very rare cases)
- half of it is nonsense.

wolfrevan5555 wrote: TL;DR means "Too Long, Didn't Read". It's used on the internet to paraphrase a long-winded statement. That was called a "reply". You should use that thing called Google. It'll help you understand these things better.

Ethreon wrote: :rolleyes:

Dark0ne wrote:

The Nexus is fond of running a borderline Nazi-Germany type system (in my experience)

Your experience of Nazi Germany, or your experience of using these sites? Do you have any experience or knowledge of the things Nazi Germany did? If you did, you wouldn't be using that reference. You should also look up Godwin's Law.

where if you don't circle-jerk a mod 100%, and instead appreciate the mod but offer *CONSTRUCTIVE* Criticism (IE: Good mod, but I have a problem with <X> and would recommend <Y> as a solution), you're likely to get bashed and *potentially* even banned. Modders turning their comments into safespaces because any sort of constructive criticism "triggers" them is pretty pathetic.

Now you need to disconnect between Nexus moderation, that is, moderation performed by official staff members of the Nexus, and mod author moderation, that is, moderation done by mod authors on their own files and comment sections.

The former, Nexus moderation, will not warn or ban for providing valid constructive criticism. It gets reported from time to time by disgruntled people that we do, but find me a warning or ban from the past two years where this has happened and I will happily review it. This is normally the first trip-up on these sorts of conversations; allegations are made, but they're never backed up by any actual proof or the proof provided is 4 - 8 years old now and yet people are talking as though we still make the same mistakes of the past. Lets live in the now.

The latter, the mod authors, have been given almost free reign to moderate their own files and comments how they see fit. In this situation, you're more than welcome to form your own opinions towards how mod authors handle their own moderation of their files. If you feel that a mod author's attitude is below you or you don't like it, it follows our very simple Nexus rule of "If you don't like it, don't use it". It's oh so simple. But a lot of people feel it's somehow their right to call out mod authors publicly that they disagree with, like they're entitled to tell mod authors how they should and should not do things.

I disagree.

Punishment for being a shithead who bashes someone or unconstructively bashes the mod is dumb.

Say what? You don't think people should be punished for being a "shithead who bashes someone"? I feel like the rest of what you're saying is pointless if you believe that...

I honestly feel like a sort of "thumbs down" system would really help to fix this problem. If people disagree with a mod *so much* and are so sick and tired of seeing that type of mod, they're going to want their voices heard. I think you'd be surprised to hear how many people hate some genres of mods but *can't* voice their opinions on the matter for fear of the banhammer, thus they're stuck in a repetitive cycle of seeing hated mods endlessly and other modders seeing these mods "doing well" because nobody bashes them, thus deciding to make those types of mods (See: Skimpy armor).

I feel like you're using a version of Nexus Mods from 2010.

If you don't like an entire genre of mods, you should be using our content blocking system to remove as many of them as possible from your view. The tools exist, you just need to use them.

If a genre of mods is popular, to use your example, "skimpy armour", then it's popular for a reason. It doesn't get popular unless lots of people like it. What positive effect is created by you having the ability to tell other people who do like that genre of mods that you don't like that genre of mods have on the community? What role does that fulfil? It'd be like going on to a sports website and downvoting any article about football because you don't like football, you like rugby and cricket. It makes no sense. It has no practical use to anyone other than your misplaced need to tell other people you dislike something that they like.

You don't need to downvote content you don't like. That's really silly. You need to block it, then ignore it.

The quality of mods would most definitely NOT improve if people could say they disliked them for reasons as basic and puerile as "I don't like this genre of mods".

jim_uk wrote: @wolfrevan5555 I've never seen anyone banned for actual constructive criticism, the problem is too few know what constructive criticism is including yourself, telling someone you hate the type of mod they've made is not constructive, if you don't like a type of mod an author makes then block that author, their mods will no longer be visible to you thus protecting your delicate sensibilities.

wolfrevan5555 wrote:

Your experience of Nazi Germany, or your experience of using these sites?

Obviously my experience using the site. Kind of a pointless question, don't you think?

EDIT: Sorry if that came off as hostile, by the way. Didn't intend that.

Do you have any experience or knowledge of the things Nazi Germany did?

Why is that relevant? Obviously no experience, and average knowledge about the topic.

If you did, you wouldn't be using that reference. You should also look up Godwin's Law.

Yes, I would, actually. It's a very hyperbolic expression to get across a general idea. It's like someone calling a moderator who deletes posts for being in the wrong forum the "fun police". Obviously that person is not a member of law enforcement. Obviously they're not trying to kill your fun. It's an exaggerated expression, just not on the same level as this. As for the Godwin's law bit, I don't see how that's relevant at all, but it's nice to know.

Now you need to disconnect between Nexus moderation, that is, moderation performed by official staff members of the Nexus, and mod author moderation, that is, moderation done by mod authors on their own files and comment sections.

I haven't seen as much moderator presence on the Nexus lately, so fair enough.

The former, Nexus moderation, will not warn or ban for providing valid constructive criticism. It gets reported from time to time by disgruntled people that we do, but find me a warning or ban from the past two years where this has happened and I will happily review it. This is normally the first trip-up on these sorts of conversations; allegations are made, but they're never backed up by any actual proof or the proof provided is 4 - 8 years old now and yet people are talking as though we still make the same mistakes of the past. Lets live in the now.

The latter, the mod authors, have been given almost free reign to moderate their own files and comments how they see fit. In this situation, you're more than welcome to form your own opinions towards how mod authors handle their own moderation of their files. If you feel that a mod author's attitude is below you or you don't like it, it follows our very simple Nexus rule of "If you don't like it, don't use it". It's oh so simple. But a lot of people feel it's somehow their right to call out mod authors publicly that they disagree with, like they're entitled to tell mod authors how they should and should not do things.

I disagree.

Fair enough, though I personally disagree with a mod author having the ability to censor free speech simply because they can't handle it. Nobody should feel like they can't share their thoughts (so long as it's constructive). We may just have to agree to disagree due to a difference in core opinions on the topic.

Say what? You don't think people should be punished for being a "shithead who bashes someone"? I feel like the rest of what you're saying is pointless if you believe that...

Honestly? I think I kind of just had a brainfart while typing. Ranting while tired is confusing. The point before that is what I had intended, I think I just stopped thinking for a moment and contradicted it like a moron. :(

I'll edit it with a strikethrough and a reason why but leave it so I don't look like I'm editing s#*&#33; out of my post for the sake of looking less stupid.

I feel like you're using a version of Nexus Mods from 2010.

If you don't like an entire genre of mods, you should be using our content blocking system to remove as many of them as possible from your view. The tools exist, you just need to use them.

See, here's my issue with that system. Mod authors seem to have difficulty actually tagging their mod, mostly because it comes down to a matter of opinion with some genres of mod. Bringing up skimpy mods again, some people may find a type of robe that shows the character's thighs and cleavage but covers the rest and isn't clearly 'sexualized' gear (IE something like BDSM or clearly intended to look like a sexy armor set) to be fine, whereas others may consider to be super skimpy. Thus, the mod author won't tag that as skimpy and it won't get filtered out. Vice versa, a mod that genuinely *isn't* considered to be skimpy by some will be tagged as skimpy and will be filtered out, leaving you oblivious to it ever having existed. The only way I know how to solve this issue is to block a mod author, and that's more of a band-aid than a solution, and, on top of that, if that mod author suddenly does a 180 and releases something right up your alley, you won't even know. If there's something I'm missing here, please let me know as this issue has been my single biggest issue with the Nexus for years.

If a genre of mods is popular, to use your example, "skimpy armour", then it's popular for a reason. It doesn't get popular unless lots of people like it.

Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of people *dislike* it too, but because it's what's popular, it's what people will create if they're looking for recognition. See: social media in general. You have to at least acknowledge that a fair amount of a Mod Author sharing their mods is for the recognition of it. They could just as keep it to themselves and upload the mod to a private area in case it's lost.

What positive effect is created by you having the ability to tell other people who do like that genre of mods that you don't like that genre of mods have on the community? What role does that fulfil? It'd be like going on to a sports website and downvoting any article about football because you don't like football, you like rugby and cricket. It makes no sense. It has no practical use to anyone other than your misplaced need to tell other people you dislike something that they like.

First off, I want to clarify something. When I say a "thumbs down" type system, I don't mean a system where you click a button similar to an endorse button and it counts towards any sort of true effect on the mod (IE having it less likely to be hidden, hurting its chances of going to the hot files, or becoming a top file, etc). Literally no effect whatsoever on that for the mod. I mean a system that's displayed similar to "Total Downloads", which is there *purely* as a visual statistic. Nothing more. The positive effect? People who disagree with the mod and would like to voice their opinion can do so, even if they're unconstructive about it. On top of being able to simply block an author, I feel like this'd cause a lot of the older, more salty people of the community who aren't happy with it ease up a bit now that they have a way to actually voice what they feel. Being the Nexus, I figure it'd probably be best to allow the mod author to *hide* this statistic, as I know it'd discourage some modders. It'd just be a nice feature, is all.

As for the analogy, if it affected the statistics of that article and it was a well-written article with effort put into it, sure, that's shitty. But the key point there is if it effects the statistics. If it doesn't, you have *every right* to downvote that article. Why? Because other people who dislike those types of articles will do the same, and newer people writing articles, if they want to, will potentially write an article that appeals to what people want, thus making more people happy. The football fans will keep their articles (As that's just a silly statistic and they enjoy doing what they do), and the other writers who want to appeal more to what seems popular (or are just seeking recognition) will write the rugby/cricket articles. Hopefully that actually *explained* what I'm trying to say, as I'm starting to feel as if I'm just bad at illustrating my point (and I don't mean that in a hostile way, btw.)

You don't need to downvote content you don't like. That's really silly. You need to block it, then ignore it.

So rather than people having a (optionally removable) harmless way of expressing distaste without actually attacking anyone, you'd rather they are completely silent and thus the opinion of what is popular never really shifts? I mean, really. How long has skimpy armor mods been a popular thing for Beth games? Don't you think, in all these years, the general opinion has shifted a bit? Yet nobody is allowed to express this, and thus that's still one of the most popular genre of mods on the Nexus, so much so that for Skyrim, it's almost difficult to find non-skimpy mods (if you, like me, have issues with overly specific tastes, borderline OCD-level type s#*&#33; where the smallest detail can ruin it) because your choices are to endlessly wade through thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of mods looking for something, or filter out a lot of these options, most likely filtering out a potential choice for yourself.

That kind of loops back to my previous point, which, again, the conclusion of that is "Maybe I'm doing something wrong, and if I am, let me know.".

The quality of mods would most definitely NOT improve if people could say they disliked them for reasons as basic and puerile as "I don't like this genre of mods".

I agree the *quality* of the mods would not improve, or if it did, it'd be marginal at best. I'm saying that I think a genre shift could occur, or at least more genres will become a bit more popular and thus everyone will be happy.

Though, again, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Ultimately it's your site and what I say doesn't really matter, you'll run it how you want, and that's fine. I just like being able to voice my opinion to *hopefully* see change implemented, even if that opinion could actually be harmful (and yes, I do understand how the concept of downvoting mods could be abused). It's like how venting to a friend can help you feel better. Just a bit salty with seeing the state of Nexus mods in general over the years. It seems like some things improve, like the Nexus moderators (Which I'll admit, I was wrong about. They HAVE improved, I just haven't noticed it as I don't go out of my way to look for it, which is, in itself, a testament to how it's improved.), while at the same time some things stagnate (Like the current popular genre of mods, which has remained the same for a very long time)

Druundev wrote: I can tell you by experience at some point you just give up on the comment sections here, even the Youtube comment section cant compare to the ignorance, rudeness and down right stupidity of some people on here.

jim_uk wrote: @wolfrevan5555 Popular mods are popular because people like them and people are not going to change their preferences because a few self entitled users want them to. Authors are not there to make what you want, they make what they want and then share it, if you want things tailored to your liking then make them yourself, it's not that hard.

See, here's my issue with that system. Mod authors seem to have difficulty actually tagging their mod, mostly because it comes down to a matter of opinion with some genres of mod.

You've tagged one file in seven years, you're in no position to criticise authors for something you can't be bothered to do yourself, same with mod content, you've not added one file or even an image, in fact you've contributed bugger all to the site, all you do is take and then have the nerve to make demands of those who do contribute.

FatSniper wrote: Oh boy, just pwnd! xD

Nofsdad wrote: She banned me and I've never had any kind of interaction with her, never commented or even used any of her mods, no contact with her whatsoever.

The Vampire Dante wrote:
@Nofsdad: Which is impossible.

You need to have had some interaction on one of her pages at some point, since the block tools an author uses are only accessible via the comments section.

tonycubed2 wrote: I agree with this. I have never banned anyone for telling me in a respectful way how my mod(s) fail. It stings. Yes. But I honestly thank them because more often than not the move improves after I address the issue. My mod only improves when someone tells me something is wrong, not when they love the mod the way it is.

( jim_uk wolfrevan5555 I've never seen anyone banned for actual constructive criticism, the problem is too few know what constructive criticism is including yourself, telling someone you hate the type of mod they've made is not constructive, if you don't like a type of mod an author makes then block that author, their mods will no longer be visible to you thus protecting your delicate sensibilities)

Arthmoor wrote: @wolfrevan5555

Thumbs down, comment voting, 1-10 rankings, requiring an accompanying comment with a rating, etc. It's all been tried. It all got trolled to hell and back. That's why those things aren't done here. You''d think that you having been here since 2008 you'd know that, but since you spent that time contributing absolutely nothing....

Sexyowl wrote: @ Dark0ne, jim_uk Well said. I have read some of the user comments when searching for information on a mod. Most of those complaining about the attitude of mod authors simply refuse to read the descriptions or any other information provided. If you have a problem with the author who is providing something for free then don't use the mod or make your own. The CK is there. Simple. Some users remind me of spoilt little children who whine and grumble when nothing goes their way.

Godmezenger wrote: + Kevin843
+ RaffTheSweetling
+ Kastrenzo
+ Ombragine
+ LethalThreat
+ tonycubed2
Your opinions are right on the dot. I kudosed you all.
Secondly, OMG Arthmoor!!! I, literally, don't think that I could've gotten through Skyrim so many times without your mods. You are awesome!!!

With that being said, no, Elianora's comments and remarks are known to be commonly/overly harsh and rude. An example of this is from her
[EDIT] Faction Housing Overhaul - Vault 81
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13035/?
On her comment page, she locks everyone out of the commenting thread and says:

"I'm extremely tired of demands, requests, suggestions, "will you make this?" "will you update that?" and "will you edits those?". I have precious free time these days and I'm getting fed up with *everyone* constantly expecting things from me. I have had enough of *all of you* stressing me the f out with your expectations and requests." <--- That's one instance Btw....one..

She says "*everyone* and *all of you* are stressing the f out.." You can, literally, scroll down, and see several people not complaining about anything but just saying how amazing she is, and she, literally, lumps everyone together and says "Your stressing me the F out, so let me punish everyone." Is there a reason when she sees someone requesting something that you she doesn't want to do that she can't just....you know....scroll past the comment???? Really??? Seriously????
Why can't she lock the comments and simply say something like "I've been getting too many request, so I'm just going to close the comment section. Thank you everyone who has endorsed my mods." Or anything civilized would be acceptable.
After I saw this, I blocked her page, and completely uninstalled every mod that I have ever downloaded from her. That language and behavior should be unacceptable from a website that claims it's about a community, but because she makes a lot of mods, Nexus is willing to...turn a blind eye to the "if you don't have something good to say, then don't say anything at all" rule. I refuse to use or support a mod from a mod author who lumps up all of her fanbase and talks people so poorly.

Now, I've only made 2 mods for the Witcher 3, so I can't pretend like I know what it's like to deal with that on the Nexus. However, I have fed the homeless for 6 years in my city, and trust me when I say this, but they are not always happy with what you serve them. I never ONCE told them "hey, your stressing me f out, so shut up."
I offered a free service with free food while giving up my free time because of the ones that would appreciate it.
Arthmoor, I have followed you from Skyrim to Fallout, and I have NEVER seen you act like that and you have 200,000+ endorsements! Wayyyy more the all of Elianora's mods combined. tonycubed2 has never responded like that, and he has made 50+ mods.
Let me make this clear, SHE DOES AMAZING WORK!!
Conversely, that behavior is unacceptable, especially when so many people notice that a person's rude behavior is incredibly consistent. Nexus should be saying something about it, but that's how the world works. As long as you bring in the business, you can say or do whatever you like to whoever you want.

Arthmoor wrote: @Godmezenger:

I can absolutely sympathize with her on locking down the comments. It's something I've had to do a few times myself because people didn't get the message when asked to stop with the rude comments and spreading false information. Every time I've done it though people quickly figured it out and it usually results in relative peace from then on.

It's entirely possible she's not getting that relative peace after doing that a few times and is genuinely fed up with how people treat her. So why have to deal with it at all?

Look at it this way. She could do what plenty of others have done. Lock down the comments and then leave the community for good. Is that what people would prefer happen? Cause I could see it happening.

Ethreon wrote: "That behaviour is unacceptable"

Cool, and? Everyone can write that in their faq or sticky and nobody would bat an eye. Prove your better with facts, not words.

worksa7 wrote: I dunno I saw a lot of her posts at least on the skyrim mods side. She seemed pretty nice to most people, even when I saw a lot of people saying some stupid things.
I won't lie I've seen her snap at maybe like two people that didn't deserve it before (and no being a good modder and them just being users does not make that okay, I don't know why I see people saying that like it should count)- but other than that they seem to be pretty well mannered given the type of people they put up with on a regular basis.

Everyone has their off moments, especially when pressured with some really frustrating comments on a regular basis; just try and keep that in mind.

RoyBatterian wrote: It's simple, read the description, read the readme, do your research by googling and stop acting like needy entitled children who need their diapers changed and a baba in your mouth.

If you don't like a mod, don't use it, move on. If you like the mod but want to change something in it, open up the CKIT or xEdit and learn to do it yourself. It's not hard, really.

It does get frustrating, we even post stuff in gigantic red letters and not even that gets the attention of some people. You have to think you are just being trolled and that kind of crap just makes your viewpoint on the whole thing negative in general. What do you expect? Deal with the general public and walk a mile in an authors shoes before you pass judgement.

Buzz off.

LUSITANER wrote: i agree with Kastrenzo on this matter. I dont even know why people praise Elianora so much, ive tested almost all her house mods and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them is crap or on a noob level. Every single design of hers has tons of obvious design mistakes and she clearly falls on too many level design noob traps. She doesnt even bother following the aesthetics of the rest of the game. I dont know if she banned me, i dont care, all i know is i was tired of her crappy stuff coming in on HOT files on MY front page and i already ignored her mods. And now she's going to have an AMA? Lol for what? who cares?

RaffTheSweetling wrote: @LUSITANER - I think there must be a glitch in the Nexus system, because I just checked your page, and it must be displaying wrong; it said you have published nothing whatsoever here for others to enjoy, which can't be right, considering how outspokenly you have slammed Elianora's work just now. I'm so confused.

In seriousness, I wish I could disassociate myself from this thread completely now. I feel pretty ill seeing the way it has evolved into little more than a hate-thread. Noone deserves this much negativity directed at them.

Sorry, Eli, for my part.

zzjay wrote: What? the first time i met her i was like wow this house is nice i'd totally use it if i had dlc...and guess what she gifted it to me...seems pretty kind to me...

i've had stalker episodes for real on nexus...the ban user from file is kinda usefull when this happens...you know...

LUSITANER wrote: RaffTheSweetling Really? you think life is all about this site, and what one has in this site? what? I might not have understood what you mean there, bro

LUSITANER wrote: So my post just got deleted by Dark0ne because ""As had been said in that topic many times already, "if you have nothing nice to say, just don't say it". You took it too far. "" Seriously? first of all, i dont care how many times something has been said already when that something is just unreasonably wrong and illogical. Secondly, a comment page is to write comments, there is nothing more than i hate than sites where only circlejerking is allowed. If you can't take "mean-things-boohoo-daddy-he's-mean", i suggest you all to mature and grow up. That's life. Thirdly, the statement "if you have nothing nice to say, just don't say it" is bullshit, even more so on a site where users come to preview things. And all your acting agaisnt anything that goes against this "little play-rule of yours" is nothing but censorship and an offense to freedom of speech and opinion.

Also, it's funny you giving me a warning. A warning of what, when i did nothing wrong? A warning that this site is filled and ran by nothing but spoiled kids on their high horses who love to practice dictatorship?

jim_uk wrote: @zzjay The ban user thing is a godsend, it feels good knowing that you can get rid of idiots with one click and never hear from them again.

Godmezenger wrote: @Arthmoor. No, locking down her comments was completely acceptable.
She often times does not have a bug section. This is also completely acceptable.
Why??? Because often time I will go from mod to mod, visit the bug section, and see the same "invisible gun" or "the textures are all purple." I will explain why that happens then you go to a different mod, and what do you see......the same thing. That can get frustrating. I've downloaded and endorsed over 1,900+ mods. Yes..I've commented in a lot of bug sections, and yes, I know.

No bug sections? Completely reasonable. I understand.
Locking down comments because people can't read 1 freaking paragraph description?
Completely reasonable.
Snapping back at people who verbally hate on your work and banning them from your content?. Again, Completely reasonable. I understand...let me say it again....I understand.

Telling everyone that your "stressing me the F out" when a lot of those same people are the ones telling you how amazing your mods are and endorsing and encouraging and praising your work.
Completely unreasonable, and I don't understand at all. <-- Again, that's the last time that I saw something and was like "yeah, I'm tired of consistently seeing this on her pages." It's not like that's the first time that I saw something and was like "Yup! That's it!"
Even @worksa7 said "I won't lie I've seen her snap at maybe like two people that didn't deserve it before" <-- and he/she sympathizes with Eli. And yes, the whole reason your all commenting on this thread is because people have noticed that exact same pattern.

@ RoyBatterian
"Deal with the general public and walk a mile in an authors shoes before you pass judgement."

Yeah...you must've missed the whole "Worked with the homeless for [EDIT] 5 1/2 years and gave my free time away offering free food, and sometimes to people who don't appreciate it while being civilized while I did it" part? I don't have to be an established mod author to know how to deal with people, considering I dealt with it in my face on a day by day or weekly basis, depending on how active I was at the time. When I made my mods, I didn't worry about the neighborhood I'm in, or whether or not I'll get stabbed today or if my stuff will be stolen out of my car. So yes, I could not be a mod author whatsoever and say that I've dealt with the general public for FREE, and turns out, I can provide people with a free service without the "your stressing me the f off" attitude. I know....surprising right?

@ RoyBatterian
"If you don't like a mod, don't use it, move on."
Yeah...that's exactly what I did.
Did you read my comment?
Sorry if it was too long,
I really try not to write so much. My bad :/

@Arthmoor
@ RoyBatterian
@worksa7
@Ethreon

@Arthmoor. No, you are right. I don't want her to walk off. She contributes far more to here than I do for sure.
Thank you for your differences of opinion.(Yes, you too RoyBatterian) :)
I do hope that she doesn't stop making mods because even with the persona, lots of people still rely on her amazing work, and she has released so many mods and given tons of people joy and entertainment without, purposely, getting anything in return. I wish her the best. Honestly. Thank you guys for your comments/and or hard work. But no, i love you guys, but I still firmly disagree with you guys. At first, I was kind of upset that she would be here, and now you guys have shown me that with or without the attitude, she definitely deserves to be here. So thank you for helping me see that. I do appreciate it. I hope that she does well and her interview goes off without any trolls.

Arthmoor wrote:

Telling everyone that your "stressing me the F out" when a lot of those same people are the ones telling you how amazing your mods are and endorsing and encouraging and praising your work.
Completely unreasonable, and I don't understand at all.

As one who has said similar things to people on occasion in my own threads, I perfectly understand why she might have done that.

Honestly, I think you're underestimating the amount of stress involved in dealing with thousands of people who decide you suck and they know better dumping their invalid opinions on you on a regular basis, to the point where even your other regular commenters notice it and try to mitigate things before we see them :P

We may not need to worry about being stabbed or having our cars broken into, but people can be total jerks and a lot of the younger crowd doesn't even think their behavior is abnormal.

RoyBatterian wrote: @godmezenger

Well good for you, I'm glad you can handle ungrateful people, but dealing with the homeless you have to expect that going in because a lot of them are mentally ill, which is sad but a side subject. Some people don't handle it well, especially when you don't expect people to respond that way in an environment which is not supposed to be hostile, but increasingly is. I'm not defending anyone, I just understand the position as I deal with it myself. I like being messaged in pm and being called rude names because I won't support pirated games for instance. I have done nothing to do deserve it, however I tend to just ignore these things and don't let it stress me out too much. This isn't about me though, it's about Eli and the hate she gets. You don't have 4chan making hate mods about you like she does, do you think that is acceptable? Are you defending people who think it's right to act like idiots just because? She's not the instigator here, nor are most mod authors who are fed up with abuse.

Yeah my opinion is different because I'm capable of viewing things from other positions than my own or hers, even yours. I understand your position and I disagree with it because it's selfish and dismissive. So I'll turn that attitude back on you, and you'll find it annoying or anger inducing. This is exactly what Eli does.

Hutchitron wrote: Every one of us has a perceived common sense of how this situation should be handled and based on what we think we know, we form that opinion, mine now included.

Sonja had it right, alluding to a microcosm of politics. Perceived rights and wrongs based on the passionate opinions and beliefs of an individual, mine now included.

Dark0ne has a prerogative to handle the situation as Dark0ne sees fit. Ultimately, we have to tolerate it, whether we agree or disagree. Even beyond this situation, it's probably fair to say that authors are subject to the exact behavioral expectations of the general user. In a realm of civilized politics, the reality is that not everyone will be appeased. We would all have to believe that the primary interest of Dark0ne would be to have this site and community operating as smoothly as possible. I would like to think that if Dark0ne honestly believed that an author, or even a policy, was detrimental to a lasting community, changes would have to be made.

I can't speak to Elianora's behavior because I didn't communicate with her directly. My idea of her, is that she makes great mods and I would like her to continue to make them.
If I had issue with her, my resulting reaction would depend on what happened. Is it enough to justify a negative comment publicly stated because of a bad interaction? Maybe. I would really have to think of why she is harmful to this community. Have I exhausted the possibility of resolving the conflict with her myself? Is she undeserving of any leniency, or have I considered the possibility that I could have avoided a conflict had I been less ignorant or more thoughtful before addressing her in the first place?
From my perspective, it's hard to justify any mass remarks she might make that appear to be toxic, and I can't speak to their magnitude because I haven't read them but regardless of who is making the comments, it's important to have the ability to look at these situations from another perspective.

You definitely have to be constructive and respectful. Authors and users alike. We all are human and make mistakes, and we should all be tolerable of the other's mistakes, reasonably speaking.

Overall, It's just not that simple. With time allowed, cases should be situational and not generalized and it's a shame when individuals feel the need to contribute their thoughts when they are less than thoughtful and more likely unnecessary. The concept that complaining about someone's toxicity, publicly rather than privately, would actually aid in removing the toxicity is entirely subjective, and probably ill-conceived if it wasn't handled in the right manner.

? Use mods without reading the comments ? May solve your problems...