Bethesda should do more to reward and promote modders

[crawe1x]

This is impossible. Bethesda isn't, like, a person who can just decide to do random things or implement some complicated affiliate program with lots of small moving parts.

 

It's a medium business owned by a very large and publicly-traded media conglomerate. Public corporations do not, as a rule, decide to give anything to anyone else because it would be "cool" or "the right thing to do."

They do, as a rule, spend a great deal of time in meetings discussing ways to further monetize their properties and customers.

They absolutely do not spend time and money on things that provide a benefit to others, without a clear quantifiable gain.

This is not hyperbole; this is the law. A public company is legally bound to avoid all actions that negatively impact its bottom line. It's a fact that's been used for decades to justify cutting corners, lowering quality, outsourcing jobs, and slashing costs in every area (except executive salaries).

 

The paid-mods stuff that popped up was not someone at Zenimax saying "hey, these guys really add value to our games. We should find a way to reward them."

It was someone saying "look how popular and widespread this 'mods' phenomenon is, where people provide and consume content for free! We should find a way to monetize that."

Any benefit to the modders obtained along the way would be a secondary effect, used mainly as marketing for how wonderful their program is.

 

I'm sorry to come crashing into your long detailed post, but there won't be *anything* that compensates modders in *any* way unless Zenimax sees a direct benefit to itself for it. And I mean direct benefit, not "good PR."

 

I don't know about the legal technicalities, whether it's at state, federal, or any other level. But in my experience, what spacefiddle says here is basically true (depressingly so). When all is said and done, corporations have one goal: making money. Altruism is an irrelevance (unless it can be used to make money or decrease costs).

 

As for paid mods, I can see the arguments both for and against. We won't really know until if/when it happens.

 

Personally, I suspect that paid mods will ultimately kill the modding scene here (that's assuming most modders choose or are forced to implement that model). But I could well be wrong - and I hope I am.

 

As a mod user, I would be open to paying for mods. However, I would also become a lot more choosy. For instance, I would do a lot more due diligence before downloading a mod. I would delay installing a new mod until it's fully mature. And generally I would just use far fewer mods. I think that's the harsh reality.

 

Overall, I suspect that paid mods will lead to fewer users, fewer mods being downloaded, and ultimately fewer mods full-stop. As a result, with one or two exceptions, I don't see anyone getting rich off mods other than Bethesda.

Edited January 14, 2017 by crawe1x

[AGreatWeight]

Whether paid mods become an actual reality in the near future or not, you'll still be able to get free mods.

Personally, I'm all for skilled mod authors being allowed to sell their mods, considering the vast amount of time and energy that they've sunk into honing their craft.

Not allowing them is equivalent to say, Roland, Korg or Moog not allowing musicians to sell their music because it was made with hardware the musicians didn't make themselves.

[Fistandilius]

 

Any mods created using the creation kit automatically become property of Bethesda. It's been that way probably since Morrowind's construction kit. Mods created without the creation kit can also possibly belong to Bethesda or otherwise be in violation of the EULA if they can be classified in court as a "Custom Game Material", or otherwise involve any stories, themes, lore, etc.created by Bethesda. Read your EULA's.

You tell people to "read the EULA", but have you read your copy lately?

 

First, the Terms of Service from Bethesda.net state in Part 2, Section D states:

 

Each Game Mod is owned by the developer of the Game Mod, subject to the licenses granted by the developer to ZeniMax as set forth in the Editor EULA.

 

And, secondly, the Fallout 4 Creation Kit / Skyrim Special Edition Creation Kit EULAs both state in Part 2, Section A says this:

 

Ownership. As between You and ZeniMax, You are the owner of Your Game Mods and all intellectual property rights therein, subject to the licenses You grant to ZeniMax in this Agreement. You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose.

So, no, mods don't "automatically become property of Bethesda". Mod authors are made to automatically license their work to Bethesda by the EULAs, but we don't lose our ownership or copyright on what we've created.

 

 

Terms of service for Bethesda.net are not the licensing agreement for fallout 4. http://store.steampowered.com//eula/377160_eula_0

 

And since Bethesda.net and, more specifically, the creation kit can be classified as software utilities, the are parented by the Fallout 4 EULA.

 

Specifically, this part:

 

"THE SOFTWARE UTILITIES, IF ANY.

 

If the Software makes available, as a separate downloadable installer, a level editor or other similar type tools, assets and other materials (the “Software Utilities”) that permit you to construct or customize new game levels and other related game materials for personal use in connection with the Software (“Customized Game Materials”), then in the event you access such Software Utilities, the use of the Software Utilities is subject to the following additional terms, conditions and restrictions:

 

(a) All Customized Game Materials created by you are exclusively owned by LICENSOR and/or its licensors (as the case may be) and you hereby transfer, assign and convey to LICENSOR all right, title and interest in and to the Customized Game Materials and LICENSOR and its permitted licensors may use any Customized Game Materials made publicly available to you for any purpose whatsoever, including but not limited to for purposes of advertising and promoting the Software;

(b) You will not use or permit third parties to use the Software Utilities and the Customized Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including but not limited to distributing, leasing, licensing, renting, selling, or otherwise exploiting, transferring or assigning the ownership of such Customized Game Materials;

© Customized Game Materials must be distributed solely for free;

(d) Customized Game Materials shall not contain modifications to any other executable files;

(e) Customized Game Materials must be used alone and can be created if the Customized Game Materials will be used exclusively in combination with the commercially released retail version of the Software.

(f) Customized Game Materials cannot contain libelous, defamatory or other illegal material, material that is scandalous or invades the rights of privacy or publicity of any third party, or contain any trademarks, copyright-protected work or other property of third parties (without a valid license); and

(g) All Customized Game Materials must contain the proper credits to the authors of the Customized Game Materials and must indicate that LICENSOR is not the author of the Customized Game Materials with additional language that “THIS MATERIAL IS NOT MADE, GUARANTEED OR SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLISHER OF THE SOFTWARE OR ITS AFFILIATES.”

[Reneer]

That's not how it works. You can't create game mods with Fallout 4. You can create game mods with the Creation Kit (which, no, it is not a level editor or even similar to one), whose EULA says you own the mods you create. You can't upload game mods to consoles outside of Bethesda.net, whose EULA also says that mod authors own their mods.

So it comes down to the scope of what the EULA incorporates. And anyone will tell you that the FO4 EULA does not supersede the CK EULA or the Bethesda.net EULA, nor does what the FO4 EULA say mean anything in relation to the CK EULA or Bethesda.net EULA. Furthermore, if the FO4 EULA superseded the Bethesda.net EULA and the CK EULA, then why even have clauses in those EULAs that specifically state that mod developers own their work?

Edited January 15, 2017 by Reneer

[Fistandilius]

Where did you come to these conclusions? The court of the internet? "anyone will tell you". Is that supposed to be proof of something?

I'm going to simplify it here, and then I'm done. You agreed to their EULA when you decided to use their software. They created a piece of software (fallout 4), and they own everything about said creation. So if you create any derived products that require or work in conjunction with said software without their permission, you are in fact stealing. Because games aren't just software, they're also stories, brands, etc. So Bethesda, being mod friendly gave you permission as long as you agreed to their terms. The terms I posted above.

 

The legalities are literally posted right there in front of you on your monitor. Read them.

 

I'm not going to argue with you anymore. It's spelled out in plain english.

 

Betheseda.net really doesn't even have anything to do with the Fallout 4 EULA. It's a separate program altogether designed to host multiple games and utilities owned by Bethesda. You don't play Fallout 4 from the Bethesda.net library. You're not even required to have Bethesda.net to play, use, or mod Fallout 4, so I don't know where you came to the conclusion that their terms of service would apply or trump the EULA from FO4.

[Reneer]

Your position, Fistandilius, in order to be true, requires that Bethesda lawyers literally contradict themselves between three different EULAs. If what you're saying is true, Bethesda says in the FO4 EULA that they own all game mods. But then, in the FO4 CK EULA, they say that the mod developers own them. And in the Bethesda.net EULA it says, again, that the mod developer owns the mod they created.

And I'll post one more piece of evidence to demonstrate that your position is incorrect. In order to officially inform Bethesda that copyrighted content is being stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net, mod authors must file a DMCA claim, which requires that the person signing the takedown notice to be the copyright owner of the work being infringed upon. If Bethesda owned all the game mods, there would be no reason for mod authors to even file DMCA Notices because we wouldn't have copyright over our work.

You're not even required to have Bethesda.net to play, use, or mod Fallout 4, so I don't know where you came to the conclusion that their terms of service would apply or trump the EULA from FO4.

In order to create a mod for Fallout 4, you (officially) need the Creation Kit. The Creation Kit EULA says that mod authors own the mods they create. In order for console users to play with mods, they need to have a Bethesda.net account. The EULA for Bethesda.net also says that mod authors own the mods they create. Furthermore, for a mod author to even upload a mod to Bethesda.net, they need to use the Creation Kit to do so.

So, in conclusion, either Bethesda's lawyers are terrible at their job or you are wrong.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Reneer

[steve40]

One forgets that Bethesda experimented with allowing MOD AUTHORS to sell their Skyrim mods on Steam not so long ago. Clearly the MOD AUTHORS are the true mod owners and copyright holders, and Bethesda does not in fact hold a license to sell YOUR mods, although they have the last word on whether you are permitted to monetize them or not.

[Ethreon]

This has already been discussed to death. We own the mods we make. deal with it.

[AGreatWeight]

Someone still trying to argue that Bethesda owns mods? :wallbash:

[Cohagen]

I made mods no one asked me to make, give me money.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Cohagen