daventry Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I could never understand the whole Class thing in Oblivion and i like the Standing Stones way better, plus the whole Perk thing is starting to grind my beans since it is so Slow and i can Only select 1 Perk at a time. Edited January 17, 2012 by daventry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faifh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't think its slow, you get onto top levels in no time. Other than that, while the current Perk system is waaaay better than the default Oblivion had, which was just broken, I would still prefer when perks relate to the stuff you do. In classic D&D I always complained, so why does killing 100 Rats improve my Lockpicking? But unlocking 100 Locks does nothing? (Since there only XP matters). While Skyrim is tons better, I still wonder, why does gaining 10 Skillups in Two-Hand-Fighting give me a new Lockpicking perk? (If I chose so). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't think its slow, you get onto top levels in no time. Other than that, while the current Perk system is waaaay better than the default Oblivion had, which was just broken, I would still prefer when perks relate to the stuff you do. In classic D&D I always complained, so why does killing 100 Rats improve my Lockpicking? But unlocking 100 Locks does nothing? (Since there only XP matters). While Skyrim is tons better, I still wonder, why does gaining 10 Skillups in Two-Hand-Fighting give me a new Lockpicking perk? (If I chose so). Well the skill doesn't improve unless you actively pick locks, so in that sense killing 100 rats will never give you access to the higher level perks.. And following that logic you are basically good enough to "figure out" the perk, but apparently needed to do some other things for it to sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Perks + standing stones all the way. The old Class/Birth-sign way was for too constrictive and offered less choice overall. Edited January 17, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franzibald Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I feel they could make it even more open, no more "improved skillgain" at all, no "mage skills, warrior skills, theif skills". Just Skills. And standing stones to improve skillgain would mean you would be gimping yourself if you used a skill you didnt have "stoned". In not so many words: No "faster skillgain" options and skills untainted by any belonging. PS: I do like perks =) DS Edited January 17, 2012 by Franzibald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faifh Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 And standing stones to improve skillgain would mean you would be gimping yourself if you used a skill you didnt have "stoned". Its not gimping, like making wrong decissions that come up with a weak character. Its just progressing slower. I suppose in Skyrim its not possible to gimp a char, its just depending on your perk choices: super-overpowered, vs. overpowered vs. very strong (with very poor perk choices). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashven Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I preferred the class system - but I think the perks were really well done this time around. Honestly, I'll always be that old (compared to my amount of the series I've experienced, versus newer players) fuddy duddy who liked how Morrowind did things, but I can't say I'm displeased with Skyrim altogether. I'll complain for lack of crossbows, throwing weapons, spears, acrobatics, athletics, short blade, so on (and the list is long, thanks to simplification) but at the end of the day I'll still play. I just wish Bethesda opted for simplification without complete eradication of some skills. I miss my crossbows dearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I just wish Bethesda opted for simplification without complete eradication of some skills. I miss my crossbows dearly. The purpose of crossbows in Morrowind was to be a slower firing but a more consistent higher damage weapon. In Skyrim they made bows hit harder and fire slower to make them serve between the old bows and the crossbows. Also athletics is still in the game to an extent, our characters race/gender do make them slightly faster or slower based on the scale height of your character. I think it makes more sense then having everyone run at the same speed once you got to 100. Edited January 17, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelV Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I preferred the class system - but I think the perks were really well done this time around. Honestly, I'll always be that old (compared to my amount of the series I've experienced, versus newer players) fuddy duddy who liked how Morrowind did things, but I can't say I'm displeased with Skyrim altogether. I'll complain for lack of crossbows, throwing weapons, spears, acrobatics, athletics, short blade, so on (and the list is long, thanks to simplification) but at the end of the day I'll still play. I just wish Bethesda opted for simplification without complete eradication of some skills. I miss my crossbows dearly. Come on admit it Two-handed vs one-handed is a real technique differences then the difference between a dagger and a sword or an axe and a sword. Just like the simplifications between Small guns and Big guns with Fallout NV(now just Guns.) And while i agree that the perk system isnt much different then the experience system in the kill 100 rats and gain lockpick skill you rarely ever gain a whole level using only 1 skill and if you are then your probably trying to build up that skill to get a perk most of the time. Plus you really couldnt have that endgame diversity without it. Of course you could gain perks for specific trees but the trees would have to be really big and complicated for that to truly work out. Also I prefer standing stones as they add to the dynamic effect of the class system plus you arent stuck with a birthsign the whole game if you made a bad choice. IT also allows much easier testing of which sign works best in what playstyle. I do wish we got my stone choices too... I really truly think Athletics types skills were a terrible idea personally. Its a sort of a "All characters will use this skill no matter what" issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorak Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I don't think its slow, you get onto top levels in no time. Other than that, while the current Perk system is waaaay better than the default Oblivion had, which was just broken, I would still prefer when perks relate to the stuff you do. In classic D&D I always complained, so why does killing 100 Rats improve my Lockpicking? But unlocking 100 Locks does nothing? (Since there only XP matters). While Skyrim is tons better, I still wonder, why does gaining 10 Skillups in Two-Hand-Fighting give me a new Lockpicking perk? (If I chose so). I could go along with a system that lets you choose a perk in a particular skill tree when that skill reaches a certain level. Takes more effort to balance, but ties perks and skill levels together and removes the "Woohoo! I have become so eloquent it has made me better at picking locks!" issue. A system like that would force specialisation, as perks would be limited within their own tree and not simply "You get 81 to throw around as you please", which results in you being able to max out the entirety of something. No, instead your One Handed skill will grant you, say, one perk every ten skill points in it. Obviously, this means you get ten perks in total for One Handed. Then what they need to do is make each one handed weapon type, swords, axes and maces, require ten perks to reach the top level of specialisation with (the tree, obviously, has three branches to follow). Those who put everything into one weapon will unlock specialised awesomeness that can be a far more expanded form than the current "swords crit, axes bleed and maces ignore armour". In that way you can still 'do everything' in terms of being a mage and an archer and a warrior and a thief and blah, blah, blah like we already do, but you can't do everything in any given tree. Every character has to make real choices with what they can do, beyond mashing one amorphous blob of perk points entirely into the trees that can be min-maxed like a motherf-....like a....uh....something. So yeah, the protagonist can still be an awesome polymath, but at least an awesome polymath who still specialises in things, so at least everyone else around them isn't reduced to pitiful irrelevancy. Sure you could be considered a Master of Conjuration by the College of Winterhold, but your studies are in summoning. THAT guy might have spent his whole life mastering the art of Conjured Weapons. You can still conjure weapons, but he's better at it, because it's his area of expertise. He can still summon stuff, but they're nowhere near as good as yours, because it's your area of expertise. We should be able to differenciate between people and characters even within a particular skill. I think the 'freedom of play' thing swings a little too far. Players should still be pushed into making choices that are mutually exclusive with other things, even in their preferred field. Edited January 17, 2012 by Khorak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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