Wish: One Stop Starter Package

[faifh]

Maybe I had the title wrong. Well I don't think all need to agree on one compilation. But I think anyone should be able to put out a compilation. Like a detailed install guide, that just runs through like a batch file on a vanilla install. I don't think its too "impossible", if you require just that: A vanilla, yet unaltered install, to run upon. Maybe just needs a couple of if-calls depending on which vanilla: steam/game of the year/ etc.

 

Or put it differently, OMM-like application with the ability built in, to a) download mods for you of know locations, b) provide it a meta file for a module configuration like a list:

First install: mod a- version x- this URL

Second install: mod v- version x - this URL.

 

Yes for one compilation configuration file this versions would be fixed. As more end-user type, you don't need to have the newest versions of everything all the time. I don't see the major pain for a pro-modder to go through once a year for a compilation and update the version tags and URLs and see if everything still works out together.

Edited January 23, 2012 by faifh

[Striker879]

Well faifh, it sounds to me like you have defined your purpose in this community. I have been watching Nephenee13's progress from one with questions to one with questions and answers. Nephenee13 has found problems and then taken on the job of fixing them.

 

I'm looking forward to watching your progress too, and helping in whatever small ways I can. You have the basic first step covered ... the idea. As you run into specific problems the team here just loves to help find solutions (you may not see it this way, but the answers you've gotten here so far don't need to be taken as discouraging ... they are helping you define the scope of the project and some of the pitfalls to avoid).

[JDFan]

Yes, this all so much tinkering. I can do it. But what my suggestion was about, was the ability to offer some "compilation". Like a set of mods that are known to work with each other, and that install in one click.

 

"Playtesting" is a pain when you are about the start playing Oblivion. What do you test, if you don't know the game at all?

 

Another thing to remember is by offering a "compilation you also make it so that the end user does not know which mod is adding what to their game and when they inevitably start adding other mods later they have no clue how to fix any conflict that arises so you wind up making things harder on them in the long run.

Sure it may be simple to add several mods in a single compilation but then how do you know what each of those compiled mods adds to the game. Then when you decide you want to make other changes you have to spend twice as long figuring things out than you would have if you simply took the time to learn how to add single mods first.

Every person is going to have a different vision of what the perfect Compilation would be and introducing newbies to the modding scene by giving them a compilation of 20 or so mods that each make different changes to the game is not going to help them learn to adjust the things they want to get their ideal gaming experience and only causes more headaches later when they add one more mod and it conflicts with one or more of those twenty and they can not figure out which because they have no idea what each of those 20 or more is adding\changing.

Then they expect the community to figure it out for them and explain how to make it all work together or get frustrated when they have to learn what they should have learned when installing the first 2 or 3 mods !!

 

If you want to mod a game you need to take the time and invest the effort to Learn what you are doing and having others put together a "compilation" that changes every aspect of the game is not going to provide that for you !

Edited January 23, 2012 by JDFan

[faifh]

Yes, this all so much tinkering. I can do it. But what my suggestion was about, was the ability to offer some "compilation". Like a set of mods that are known to work with each other, and that install in one click.

 

"Playtesting" is a pain when you are about the start playing Oblivion. What do you test, if you don't know the game at all?

 

Another thing to remember is by offering a "compilation you also make it so that the end user does not know which mod is adding what to their game and when they inevitably start adding other mods later they have no clue how to fix any conflict that arises so you wind up making things harder on them in the long run.

Sure it may be simple to add several mods in a single compilation but then how do you know what each of those compiled mods adds to the game. Then when you decide you want to make other changes you have to spend twice as long figuring things out than you would have if you simply took the time to learn how to add single mods first.

Every person is going to have a different vision of what the perfect Compilation would be and introducing newbies to the modding scene by giving them a compilation of 20 or so mods that each make different changes to the game is not going to help them learn to adjust the things they want to get their ideal gaming experience and only causes more headaches later when they add one more mod and it conflicts with one or more of those twenty and they can not figure out which because they have no idea what each of those 20 or more is adding\changing.

Then they expect the community to figure it out for them and explain how to make it all work together or get frustrated when they have to learn what they should have learned when installing the first 2 or 3 mods !!

 

If you want to mod a game you need to take the time and invest the effort to Learn what you are doing and having others put together a "compilation" that changes every aspect of the game is not going to provide that for you !

 

All this arguments could be said on GNU/Linux systems as well, albeit Nephenee13 does not acknowledge the analogy, he didn't bother to explain why, and I suppose he just misses any real experience with any of these. As newbie you don't know which package does what. No one actually agrees on what everything should be included or not, yet there are a some good start packages called "distribution". Strangely enough it all works there... Honestly I give up on you guys if you cannot imagine or want to acknowledge the possible. I shared my experience not having grown with Oblivion with the start, but coming new to it, albeit being a long timed computer savy. I found the sudden negativity to be confronted against to be very discouraging. Why do you just suddendly go aggressive (especially Nephenee13)? I'm finished with this mess you seem to be found and stubborn of.

- Signed Off for good.

Edited January 23, 2012 by faifh

[AnimalRiot]

Here's something to get you started with modding your Oblivion game if you only want to update the graphics --> Oblivion the Beautiful thread at the official Bethsoft forums. There is no magical all-in-one package to get though. You'll just have to rely on the collective knowledge and good graces of the modding community.

 

You'll have to get your hands dirty like the rest of us if you really want to bring out the best of your Oblivion game. Welcome and enjoy. :)

 

 

P.S.

 

Learn to Wrye Bash. (I can't emphasize this enough.) It's gonna be your lifesaver when it comes to modding Oblivion. :D

And by the way, I think your analogy with Linux is correct in a way. Modding your game doesn't require that much technical skills as building your own distro though. :wink:

Edited January 23, 2012 by AnimalRiot

[PrettyMurky]

Why do you just suddendly go aggressive (especially Nephenee13)? I'm finished with this mess you seem to be found and stubborn of.

Suddenly? What has happened here, is that you have come here with a suggestion (nothing wrong with that), and the users of these forums, who know what they're talking about, have politely told you why your idea is impractical; you have preceeded to dismiss those people as 'unimaginative'. No; your idea was not a terrible one in princilple; however it would require a LOT of preparation, and still more ongoing maintainance, in order to provide a solution to a problem that can be solved by people such as yourself putting in minimal effort in learning about the thing that they want to do. People here are more than happy to help you along the way if you have questions; however they are less happy about endulging the whims of someone who is being naive and rude.

[David Brasher]

I like the idea of plug-and-play huge Oblivion bundles, but there are so many obstacles that the result would not turn out like people imagine and dream of, and would be quite disappointing.

 

Reading this thread, one thing that I have been thinking is that Oblivion uses a totally different architecture than Linux. I am a CS guy and have built and uploaded a fair number of mods. I have a pretty good grasp of what a modder can do with the available tools and what can't be done with ordinary methods, tools, and skills. A normal modder cannot build an installer wizard to install a bunch of mods right. Oblivion is not designed that way. The task, if it can possibly be completed, would require like a genius hacker/computer programmer/OBSE scripter type of person. Oblivion does not support this, so it would take a very clever inventor to get around all the obstacles. I would say that 99.5% of modders could not even attempt such a project.

 

On the other hand it is easy for a modder to merge a bunch of mods, or package a bunch of mods in one easy-to-use package. So instead of installing 50 mods, you would install this one giant mod with just an .esm and an .esp and the textures, meshes, sounds, and such all in one set of folders. Alternately, there could be like 50 .esp files all in the same folder and you could install them all at once. This is doable without much effort for a skilled modder and with almost no research and development time.

 

But the problems with this approach have already been discussed in this thread:

 

(1) Modder permissions. I personally make almost all of my work public domain so that my mods can be edited, distributed, and bundled. But most modders, especially the authors of the most popular must-have mods are jealous and controlling and will not consent to let other people distribute their work in a bundlepack. You could probably beg and plead, and many of them would still refuse to give you permission. So your dream bundlepack of mods would have some serious holes in it and your favorite mods might not be included.

 

(2) Obsolete mod versions. Important and popular mods get updated frequently. If a mod like that was included in your bundle, it would be outdated fast, and would contain bugs and compatibility problems that did not exist in the current version. You suggest that conscientious modders would be happy to redo bundle packs once per year. A year can be a very long time. I have seen mods updated 12 or more times in a year. Your bundle pack could possibly contain mod components that are eleven times obsoleted.

 

So your idea would be great for customer service. It would be nice if a new Oblivion player could just download one file and have a great Oblivion setup, kind of like how you used to buy a new video game cartridge and stick it in your console and have a great new game to play. But there are gigantic obstacles.

 

This thread, and many others, also kind of go this way:

 

OP: I have this great new idea! It will be like this and that!

 

Various commentators: Yeah. It is sort of a nice idea. How about you stop talking and build it? After all, it was your idea.

 

This is not a totally rational response on the part of the commentators, because the requester would not have asked if he or she could just easily build the requested mod. But when no one takes the bait and when no one wants to jump in and build the mod, and when everyone is pointing out huge obstacles, then perhaps it is reasonable to think that the OP is the one best equipped to build the mod. The OP has more enthusiasm than anyone else, and has the vision and the design parameters in mind.

 

You may not be a pirate and bundle work without permission. But there are things that you could do right now toward making your dream come true. You can start contacting mod authors seeking permissions. You can start writing good installation documentation. You can start doing a bunch of play-testing to make sure your load order is correct, you have all the patches you need, and your game is stable and works right. When you acquire permissions for mod use, you can start merging them into a larger .esm and .esp. You can repackage the files like meshes and textures and sounds into one master set of folders. In cases where people are not eager to build your mod for you, they may still be quite happy to help you with work on the project or give you technical advice on how to succeed.

Edited January 23, 2012 by David Brasher

[AnimalRiot]

^ This reminds me of the Nehrim modders, they sure are a dedicated and smart lot. Their installer was very nice.