Stormcloaks or Imperials?

[aeonthraen]

To be honest i've gone with neither on any of my characters basically because I believe they're both wrong but they're both right. the Stormcloaks wanting to drive the Empire out of Skyrim would give the Thallmor an unheeded access to the western part of Skyrim; they'd be able to siege and lay waste to Markath within a standard week. A full year not even Solitude could withstand a mass blockade.

Spending men and resources on a war of attrition is costly for both sides and the Stormcloaks have it worse; they have no strategic fallback just Skyrim and I doubt Morrowind and Hammerfell would welcome them with open arms.

 

The Imperial Legion is also wrong because they're just puppet rulers for the real threat and they've become inundated by belligerency; they left Hammerfell to fend for themselves and haven't even blinked an eye toward Vvardenfels current blight. Granted its because they paid a heavy toll taking back the Imperial City but still; if you want political and strategic backing against a well armed and prepared adversary you get what support you can.

 

Me personally the Imperials need to throw the Thallmor the finger and tell them to F-Off. abandon the Imperial City and regroup on Solitude. Sign a treaty with the Stormcloaks, granting them access to

all of Skyrim and giving them more military support. Also send a liason to Hammerfell to ease political tension and get the reinforcements from the Stormcloaks to reinforce the Al'ikir. Finally send what

support we can to Vvardenfel to evacuate whom we can and offer humanitarian aid.

 

That would be my solution to the problem, that way the Thallmor lose on two fronts not just one. They lose strategic backing from any other province and have to fall back on Blackmarsh and parts of Cyrodil. I would use a Slash and Burn method on leaving the Imperial City; the only thing left would be a smoldering ruin that way with some initiative my forces could pin them in place in the moonscape that would be left and annihilate them. Also helping Hammerfell and Vvardenfel would cripple support for the Thallmor and clever use of propaganda methods to make the people of the northern provinces realize just what the Thallmor are; a brutish, tyrannical dictatorship whose concept of superiority will be their ultimate failure. if theres one thing I know is that arrogance also equals stupidity and high elves have arrogance to spare.

 

At that point the Aldmeri Dominion would have no choice but to fall back and reevaluate its condition; with Hammerfell backed up by reserve troops from the Stormcloaks and the Empire reinforced by public opinion on turning the Imperial Forces into a massive humanitarian aid operation to help and evacuate Morrowind, the Thallmor would have nothing but Black Marsh to fall back on and the Argonians/Khajits are not exactly their best friends. I might actually give out misinformation to Black Marsh hinting that the Thallmor intended to hit the province with one of their, "purges." That would surely demoralize the Dominions lead shock troops and standing armies.

 

Long story short though the only person I really back is Balgruuf and his pure neutral standing. Whiterun kind of reminds me a little of Babylon 5 almost; a full neutral location in order to keep both sides balanced in times of war. If I were the Jarl I would use Whiterun as a neutral staging point between the Stormcloaks and Empire. NO tolerance for violence and strictly for diplomatic meetings. This gives Balgruuf political power that would force both sides to adhere; Ulfric wouldn't attack Whiterun in risk of angering the Dragonborn/Greybeards. Empire wouldn't occupy either for the same reason.

[sajuukkhar9000]

snip

I would like to point out that

 

1. The Empire throwing out Hammefell was a good thing because it allowed the Redguards to reclaim their southern lands and stick it to The Thalmor, something they under The Empire's banner couldn't do.

2. The Empire has helped Morrowind. Volcano eruptions aren't something easily undone.

Edited January 30, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[RobertHowsham]

My reading of the opening scenario is that your character is entering Skyrim intending to join the legion but has poor equipment. For this reason when (s)he becomes embroiled in the ambush is forced to surrender. The question on the officers' minds will be: "Is this person in legue with the Stormcloaks or just in the wrong place at the wrong time?"

 

We know the Imperials are short of manpower and will therefore not be able to propperly investigate the situation and so in the interests of security lump you in with the others. You, as an Empire supporter, are aware of their dilemma and know that if the positions were reversed you would do the same, thus you do not hold your near execution against them.

 

Given the above analysis I am happy going with the legion.

[Astaril]

Imperials 100%

I think the Stormcloaks case is quite weak, I mean apart from the Talos thing what is there problem? Once a united Empire wins the war against the Thalmor then they can tear up the White Gold Concordat and then everything will be back to normal.

I can't even mention my opinion of Ulfric else I might get a strike for bad language! :P

[thesapien]

Imperials 100%

I think the Stormcloaks case is quite weak, I mean apart from the Talos thing what is there problem? Once a united Empire wins the war against the Thalmor then they can tear up the White Gold Concordat and then everything will be back to normal.

I can't even mention my opinion of Ulfric else I might get a strike for bad language! :P

 

In the beginning, it's really difficult though. When role-playing, do you fight your way out killing Stormcloaks? I go both routes half the time. But later in the game I usually just avoid joining either side.

 

But you make a good point, that defeating the Thalmor ought to be the main goal. Killing fellow Nords seems like the wrong enemy. It plays right into the Thalmor plans. So my question is why do the Stormcloaks kill their own countrymen? Does anyone know if it was the Imperials who were punishing Talos worshippers in any cases? I thought it was the Thalmor actually doing it. I've come across the one scene with dead Nords at a Talos shrine with a dead Thalmor. Did the killing of each other start with Ulfric?

[Lachdonin]

But you make a good point, that defeating the Thalmor ought to be the main goal. Killing fellow Nords seems like the wrong enemy. It plays right into the Thalmor plans. So my question is why do the Stormcloaks kill their own countrymen? Does anyone know if it was the Imperials who were punishing Talos worshippers in any cases? I thought it was the Thalmor actually doing it. I've come across the one scene with dead Nords at a Talos shrine with a dead Thalmor. Did the killing of each other start with Ulfric?

 

I have yet to discovere a single instance whic indicates the Empire is prosecuting Talos worshipers. Which, i feel i should add, seems to be a violation of the Concordant in and of its self. Based on (admitedly scant) comments by various people and Thalmor, is hinted that it's the Empire's responsibly to deal with the 'heritics'. Instead, their letting the Thalmor do all the dirty work, and focusing on the rebellion.

[Ashven]

In the empire's favor, you can still see a statue to Talos and a priest openly preaching about him, in Whiterun - which is a pro-Imperial town. I think the Empire is actively trying to salvage the situation but Ulfric's being a brat and lashing out without actually understanding the politics and levity of the situation.

[aeonthraen]

snip

I would like to point out that

 

1. The Empire throwing out Hammefell was a good thing because it allowed the Redguards to reclaim their southern lands and stick it to The Thalmor, something they under The Empire's banner couldn't do.

2. The Empire has helped Morrowind. Volcano eruptions aren't something easily undone.

 

If you read the book about the Great War you would see that Hammerfell was VERY aggravated that the Empire left them to their fate. Granted yes its given them the opportunity to fight the war on their own terms but still; this was a blatant disregard for allies on the Empires part, a very self-destructive and ignorant method.

 

Second I'm not saying the Empire should try to put a giant plug on Red Mountain but I think your information is flawed. Of all the books of come across and heard from NPC chatter and questions there isn't a single instance of the Empire trying to devote resources to helping Vvardenfel. Matter of fact the only instance i've seen is the Grey Quarter in Windhelm for Dunmer refugees. According to the books the Dunmer were forced to evacuate to Solsthiem, Northern Skyrim and the Rift. They did this with SOME Imperial help but not much. A few of the Ashlander Tribes are still in Morrowind and the only Great House that seems to still be kicking is Hlaalu and thats only because they had a lot of political and financial backing from the Empire. Everyone else seems to be left to fend for themselves. You can even talk to the priestess at the Shrine of Azura on the story of when she fled Morrowind; it sounds like she had to flee on her own along with a great many followers of Azura. Now I admit my ideal is a bit biased; I have yet to see any support from the Empire to help the Dunmer people aside from saving the funding to a Great House that's had ties to the Empire since the 2nd Era. So i'll keep my eyes and ears open to anything of a support mechanism from the Empire to assist the Dunmer in humanitarian aid. Aside from that it seems the Imperials are quite content to let the Dunmer cook in their own soup.

[aeonthraen]

In the empire's favor, you can still see a statue to Talos and a priest openly preaching about him, in Whiterun - which is a pro-Imperial town. I think the Empire is actively trying to salvage the situation but Ulfric's being a brat and lashing out without actually understanding the politics and levity of the situation.

 

*nod* agreed. its one of the reasons I can't support either though. Im a huge exploration fan so I've probably seen a lot more than most people have ingame. I have come across Thallmor agents arresting a local farmer for Talos worship but I have on occasion come across a group of Imperial soldiers doing the same thing. The Empire is FAR from being squeaky clean in this; They're enforcing anti-Talos worship as well. Maybe Whiterun is a fluke yes but Whiterun has always been pure neutral. The only reason for that is the Dragonborn depending on his/her standing. Dragonborn reminds me a little of the taverin in the Wheel of Time series; events and places change with his/her presence. Reason why I've remained strictly neutral because both outcomes are bad for Whiterun.

 

Stormcloak: Jarl Baalgruuf is forced into exile and Whiterun becomes a central hub to reinforcements from the Rift and Windhelm.

 

Empire: Whiterun is forced to adhere to Imperial Law and turned into a weapons/troops hub.

 

Either way is bad for Whiterun but yes at least the Empire is trying to take a more subtle and less bloody approach. Ulfric, though I admire his need to fight for the freedom of his people, is far from being a great revolutionary leader. All this seems to be hinged on the ideal of usurping power and that is a blatant disregard for the Moot. He claims to support the Moot but deep inside I doubt it.

[Lachdonin]

I have come across Thallmor agents arresting a local farmer for Talos worship but I have on occasion come across a group of Imperial soldiers doing the same thing. The Empire is FAR from being squeaky clean in this; They're enforcing anti-Talos worship as well.

 

I've only ever seen Imperials with Stormcloak prisoners. Talos worshipers do not equal Stormcloaks...

 

Still, after 200 hours i still havent seen this guy trying to revive a wolf, so i suppose it could be the luck of the draw...