LE A mod that allows me to play a good character

[Mercami]

I think the reason Skyrim has much more morally ambiguous choices is its setting. Skyrim is a land of survival, where heroes are rare and survivors must do whatever it takes to survive. A lot of the choices you view as evil, the characters in Skyrim would simply view as survival, the necessary evil for their continued existence.

Except "Skyrim" didn't get to write its own quests. A human being wrote them, and they didn't HAVE to force you to play an evil character. There would have been no uproar had they given us a choice on this. In fact, they would have made a lot more people happy.It's really very simple. Why am I forced to kill Grelod in order to be able to play the Dark Brotherhood quest line? It has nothing to do with the "harshness" of life in Skyrim. Someone simply wrote the quest that way and gave us no other choice. You don't need to make up artificial reasons about how this came about.

If you really DON'T want to kill Grelod, then I guess you're not going to be an assassin then, since they are inherently "evil" in TES.

 

I think you missed his point, you have to kill Grelod to be given the quest to destroy the DB. The quest exists in game but there is no way to get it without killing her.

 

Also the Companions seem to be almost... good? I don't seem them running around on a rampage killing people on the streets in Whiterun, and they seem like they've helped some people.

Actually, no. They're mercenaries through and through. The very first quest you do for them is beat the s*** out of Dannica Pure-Spring, that priest of Arkay in Whiterun, for not paying a fine or something.I wouldn't classify berating a priestess a good choice.

 

Actually the first quest you get from them is a radiant one with multiple possible jobs. Also Vilkas' quest has multiple targets so it's random. To quote UESP "Farkas has gotten word that a citizen has been causing trouble for someone in their city. He needs you to go and rough up that person in order to bring them back in line."

 

Also just because a person is a priest or priestess doesn't make them law abiding, "good" or perfect so they might be doing something "bad" to someone else.

 

Yes the companions are mercenaries and werewolves does that make them "Evil"? It would depend on the players view point. To me they are some where in the middle I can see reasons a "good" or "evil" character would have reasons to join them.

[shadowkazama]

I'll give an example to clarify what I have in mind:

In the quest "Innocence Lost", I'm asked to kill Grelod the Kind. But killing someone for being unkind to children is not something that a good character would do. The game should give more measured options, such as using persuasion to convince Grelod to look for another line of work, arranging to have the children adopted, etc.

 

In Skyrim, if you want to rid the land of the Dark Brotherhood, you're forced to kill Grelod first, Which means you've already become as evil as they and killing them would just show you to be a hypocrite.

 

I tried every way to kill astrid without having to use console codes and without killing Grelod but the game gave me no such choice. Commander Maro never shows up at the Penitus Oculatus post in Dragon Bridge unless you kill Grelod first.

 

 

I agree about wanting to make a "good" character, but your example is flawed.

 

First: You don't have to do the quest at all or any quest that you deem as "evil"

 

Second: From an RPG stand point, you don't even know Astrid even exists.

 

Third: Grelod the Kind isn't really kind. She abuses those children. Killing her is completely justified for a Paladin type character, who is fanatical about laws and what is good. Those children are even happy that she is dead.

 

Try looking at it from the character's point of view. If you do do something bad, make a story of it and try to redeem yourself.

[shadowkazama]

Yes the companions are mercenaries and werewolves does that make them "Evil"? It would depend on the players view point. To me they are some where in the middle I can see reasons a "good" or "evil" character would have reasons to join them.

 

I agree. Being a werewolf is like having a sword. It can go both ways, depending on how you use it. Just like magic. It may considered inherently "evil", but it can be used for good. Look at restoration for example.

[fraquar]

Shadowkazama, here's the problem of playing a good character in that scenario:

 

You either kill Grelod by doing an evil act, endorse a confused childs understanding that offing people you don't like is a perfectly acceptable and start down the evil path

OR

You do absolutely nothing, ignore Grelod (and the DB questline) and let the kids keep getting tormented by someone who obviously shouldn't be in charge at the Orphanage AND let Aventus start down the evil path to boot without a care in the world.

 

One solution to this dilemma would be to have a radiant quest somewhere that allows her to be removed if you chose not to accept the offer and ignored the DB questline altogether. Removal by means other than cold-blooded murder. Lets face it, although hardly ideal for a good character, framing her Thieves Guild style is a far, far better alternative in the "lesser of two evils" approach that good characters sometimes have to face. Apathy isn't a choice or alternative here for a good aligned character.

 

BTW, being unkind to kids isn't grounds for a Paladin to go on a hack and slash in the name of humanity mission here - there are far better options to fix this problem, there simply are no other options is the problem here.

[lemmiwinks321]

This game really wasn't the greatest, I've grown to deal with that and the many many things wrong with it...I'm always a little pissed while playing, but I still deal with it. I still like spacing out and seeing every corner of Skyrim, lack of a combat system and 1 million bugs/things wrong aside.

 

Though I would like a mod that makes you not have to frame an innocent vendor just to find Esbern, WTH is up with that? Also the choice to not become a werewolf and go slaughtering vampire hunters just because the game has limited choice. How would you get rid of the silver hand stuff in the companions quest though? They are a huge part of it.

[iondragonx]

I agree with the OP. There should be more types of conflict resolution. We could call the mod "Derailing the Railroaded Choices" or something. Speech skills should help more, alternate resolutions should be more clear (referring to the reverse pickpocket trick for the Theives Guild).

 

That said, you should be able to do undercover work and pretend to perform evil acts in the pursuit of getting closer to the ultimate goal. Framing the innocent shopkeeper could be a set up with the guards. Pay the shopkeeper ahead of time for his participation and have him hauled off to jail as theatre for the Guild to believe that you succeeded. When the Guild lets you in, destroy it from the inside and have the shopkeep exonerated to end it. There's not as much red tape in a dark ages setting, its all about influence.

 

As for the DB, couldn't you just use illusion magic to make it appear that you have killed an innocent? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

As a side note:

In the demo video from Bethesda, the character leaves a cave with mammoth and giants passing right next to him, no attacks. I pass twenty metres away from a giant encampment and get clubbed into oblivion... sorry, couldn't help it.

2) When the opponent is weak and says "Mercy!", it doesn't matter, you can't let him live, because as soon as he gets up again he WILL attack you.

These are actually flaws in the tutorial or the aggro system. If you have your weapons readied, the Giants will aggro on sight (I verified) and the near dead enemies should not attack when they get up (I have yet to verify). There is a mod already for the near dead enemies to be Calmed for 30 days. The basis is: If you have your weapons out, you are threatening everyone around you with assault.

[jmalkavian]

@iondragonx

That said, you should be able to do undercover work and pretend to perform evil acts in the pursuit of getting closer to the ultimate goal. Framing the innocent shopkeeper could be a set up with the guards. Pay the shopkeeper ahead of time for his participation and have him hauled off to jail as theatre for the Guild to believe that you succeeded. When the Guild lets you in, destroy it from the inside and have the shopkeep exonerated to end it. There's not as much red tape in a dark ages setting, its all about influence.

I like this idea except ya shouldn't need to pay shopkeeper, after all ya want to help him.But it maybe somewhat difficult as the guards are in the TG's pocket...not forgetting Maven Briar and her "holier than thou" attitude.....Actually hate the"high horse attitude" from most of TG's members....it would be nice to give them a good "legitimate" butt kicking {destroy}.

 

There is a mod already for the near dead enemies to be Calmed for 30 days. The basis is: If you have your weapons out, you are threatening everyone around you with assault.

What's the name of this mod or could you post link to it?. tc.

[ManleySteele]

I'd love a mod that lets me play a good character (a Paladin, for example). I'll explain:

 

A true RPG allows you to play either good or evil, but Skyrim forces you to play an evil character.

 

I'll give an example to clarify what I have in mind:

In the quest "Innocence Lost", I'm asked to kill Grelod the Kind. But killing someone for being unkind to children is not something that a good character would do. The game should give more measured options, such as using persuasion to convince Grelod to look for another line of work, arranging to have the children adopted, etc.

 

In Skyrim, if you want to rid the land of the Dark Brotherhood, you're forced to kill Grelod first, Which means you've already become as evil as they and killing them would just show you to be a hypocrite.

 

I tried every way to kill astrid without having to use console codes and without killing Grelod but the game gave me no such choice. Commander Maro never shows up at the Penitus Oculatus post in Dragon Bridge unless you kill Grelod first.

 

It would be nice to be able to get a quest to kill Astrid and enter the shack east of solitude without having to cheat. Astrid should have appropriate dialogue for the ocasion. Right now, if you enter the shack without killing Grelod, she just says "Brother?" and, ironically, says "Well done" when you kill her, which seems inappropriate in the first meeting to say the least.

 

I used that particular quest as an example but the idea is to make a mod that gives your character the choice to do the "right thing" in as many quests as possible.

 

Thx

 

I agree with your sentiment. I have refused to join the thieves guild in every game except one. I abandonned that game right after I was introduced fromally to Maven. I normally just go to the thieves tavern and beat up the Man to make him tell me where Egbern is, but even that is unneccasary. You can easily find him without any of the drama. My feeling on this game is it is unfinished, and I don't mean the numerous broken quest problems. At the start of the game, you get two choices. The first is to follow the Imperial line and the second is to follow the Stormcloak line. In my not very humble opinion, this decision should resonate throughout the entire game, changing everything about the game, and not being very suble about it, either. The second choice that should change the game in a major way is the choice you make at the first set of skill stones. Choose warrior and go on about your business, either becoming aforce for good in the world or taking the dark path. I want to be perfectly clear that I don't denigrate anyone for playing the bad guy in a fantasy game. It's just not for me. Even staying neutral on good and evil should make a game feel different somehow. Choose mage and open a completely different experience, with the same sort of choices for good or evil deeds. Choosing thief should also open new choices for the player. That's just my opinion. What about you guys?

[ManleySteele]

This game really wasn't the greatest, I've grown to deal with that and the many many things wrong with it...I'm always a little pissed while playing, but I still deal with it. I still like spacing out and seeing every corner of Skyrim, lack of a combat system and 1 million bugs/things wrong aside.

 

Though I would like a mod that makes you not have to frame an innocent vendor just to find Esbern, WTH is up with that? Also the choice to not become a werewolf and go slaughtering vampire hunters just because the game has limited choice. How would you get rid of the silver hand stuff in the companions quest though? They are a huge part of it.

This is my other major problem with the game's structuring. There should be an early choice that you can choose that makes the Companions either the werewolves, or the silverhands. As things now stand, I join the companions in some games to get access to the Skyforge steel weapons and armor. I have played where I declined the honor of becoming a werewolf and others where I just quit going to Jorvasskur at all. It doesn't ruin the game for me, but it is an aggravation.

[CptTrollahkiin]

I didn't really want to kill the old woman either, I mean she can be as evil as hell but she wasn't a witch or daedra... she was a nasty old woman. You can't scare her off, or make her change her ways, or anything. So you kill her. So much for freedom of choice?

 

Yeah, the method of attracting the attention of the Dark Brotherhood could have been thought out better. For example, faking a murder.

 

BTW, a good character would destroy the assassin cult, not join it.

 

 

not become a werewolf and go slaughtering vampire hunters

 

*werewolf hunters.

 

If you looked around Silver Hand forts and read books/pieces of paper better, you would see that the Silver Hands are actually bad guys. They torture and conduct experiments on werewolves. And not all werewolves are inherently evil (are the Companions evil?), they are simply bound by the terms of Hircine's "Daedric deal".

 

At the end of the Companion questline, you have the option of lifting the Hircine's curse both from you and Kodlak, to allow him to pass to Sovngarde.

Edited February 3, 2012 by CptTrollahkiin