Questions about creating custom armor...

[Elleh]

Hi there. Hopefully these questions are relatively simple...

 

I'm working on a custom set of rogue armor, and I'm a bit new to the process. The mesh is coming along nicely, but before I get too far I want to make sure I understand everything correctly.

 

First question... the "boots" are rather tall. I've noticed that most (all?) boot models in Skyrim do not extend past the knee. If mine end mid-thigh will I have any problems on down the line? Like... with attaching the skeleton, and so forth? (I have never attempted that portion before, incidentally. So that'll be interesting....) At this point I could probably attach things to the "torso" part of the armor without making a mess, but I'd rather not have to for purely aesthetic reasons.

Here's what I have WIP http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h383/EllehBella/roguearmor_wip.jpg

 

Also, I read that the acceptable poly count for armor is 15k or less. (Don't laugh at me, for this... >.> ) Is that for.... the entire set of armor? Or for each piece of the armor set? Like... under 15k for the torso, ect. What I have looks comparable to vanilla armor, but I'm uncertain.

 

Finally, (and I really should have thought about this before I even began...) I've been working on this thing in Blender 2.6. I sort of... transferred the mesh over to Blender after becoming frustrated with 3dsmax (I used the Max nif importer/exporter). What would be the best way to get my mesh into either Max or Blender 2.49 so I can do the final parts of the process? Like copying weights, and such? Or am I screwed? Or is there a nif exporter for Blender 2.6 that’s been hiding from me?

 

Noobish questions, but I appreciate the help. Thanks in advance :)

[Frozzled]

Finally, (and I really should have thought about this before I even began...) I've been working on this thing in Blender 2.6. I sort of... transferred the mesh over to Blender after becoming frustrated with 3dsmax (I used the Max nif importer/exporter). What would be the best way to get my mesh into either Max or Blender 2.49 so I can do the final parts of the process? Like copying weights, and such? Or am I screwed? Or is there a nif exporter for Blender 2.6 that’s been hiding from me?

 

You'll be able to export an OBJ from Blender, and import that in to Max for bone weight assignment. I'm not sure how it fares with the standard skeletons, but with CHSBHC, Cherry provided a 3ds Max file with the skeleton within which could be applied directly to another mesh due to the bone-defined weighting. I don't know if the standard skeleton imports have this, or whether the weight has been pre-baked to the vertices.

[Elleh]

You'll be able to export an OBJ from Blender, and import that in to Max for bone weight assignment. I'm not sure how it fares with the standard skeletons, but with CHSBHC, Cherry provided a 3ds Max file with the skeleton within which could be applied directly to another mesh due to the bone-defined weighting. I don't know if the standard skeleton imports have this, or whether the weight has been pre-baked to the vertices.

 

Great! I got my mesh into Max as an OBJ, no problem. I love it when things actually work...

I saw Cherry's tutorial. I'll definately try out that file. I suppose hand-painting could still be an option? But that sounds a little scary, so maybe not...

Thanks!

[ResolveThatChord]

Hey. Glad to hear you're working on new models.

 

For polycount, ideally you want to go as low as possible, but remember that you're making this for yourself, and if your machine can handle it, then that's fine. however, I'd encourage you to aim closer to 5000 triangles if possible. If you've made something very high-poly, duplicate it and make a low poly version, and bake the details on with normal maps, as described in this tutorial. You can get fantastic looking, low-poly models this way.

 

Working in Blender 2.6 is fine. It's simply a better program than Blender 2.4, but it helps to have a copy of 2.4 installed for a couple of useful scripts: the .nif import/export scripts, and the "copy bone weight" script, which saves hours of time when weighting meshes. you can transfer your work between 2.6 an 2.4 using the "append" feature. Or since you already have Max you can export to it from blender, I hear it's better supported for working with .nifs.

 

It's your call what to do about the boots, but I say if they don't work with any mesh other than your own, then you might as well merge them as the same object as the armour.

 

Good luck and have fun. I'm looking forward to seeing your creations.

[Elleh]

Heh. I hope somebody finds this in the deluge of posts after the release of the CK. Anywho...

 

Propress report! And more questions!

 

I've managed to finish my mesh, and I've begun texturing. I decided that it would be a good idea to test the mesh out in-game, though, so I went ahead and gave it a shot. I used 3ds Max to assign bone weights and export a nif (torso only, for now), used nifscope to tweek properties, yada yada yada.... It works! Mostly.

 

I'm getting all kinds of crazy, blocky, jagged shadows all over the place. What is that? Can I do something about it?

Here's what I mean (the textures - ignore them. I only have a half-finished difuse map at this point):

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h383/EllehBella/WIPcrazyshadows-1.jpg

It's sunny mid-morning in Whiterun. That definately does not look right. I can also see some things I'd like to change on the mesh itself. Le sigh. Never ending.

 

@ResoveThatChord:

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

The torso portion of my armor is around 5k triangles. It seems fine. I think I'll keep my armor as seperate pieces though, just for consistency. But maybe not - I don't really see myself mixing this set with anything else. It'd probubly look silly XD.

 

Wow, that is a pretty nice looking normal map. I've heard about baking normal maps from high-poly versions, but I've never tried it. I't's probubly better that just sort-of 'faking it' in photoshop.

[ResolveThatChord]

With normal maps we generally bake one for low frequency, geometry details like folds in cloth, or buttons, smoother geometry, and make a normal map from the texture for high frequency detail, like scratches, literal texture, that kind of thing. Then combine them.

 

Your armour is looking fantastic, even with the basic texture. I was wondering how you did the stitching; is it done with a vector program, or did you do it in photoshop?

 

As for your lighting problem, I'm afraid I haven't encountered that one personally yet. If I had to guess I'd say it's to do with the shader properties in Nifskope. I think someone on TESA had a similar problem; you might want to start a thread over there.

[Elleh]

With normal maps we generally bake one for low frequency, geometry details like folds in cloth, or buttons, smoother geometry, and make a normal map from the texture for high frequency detail, like scratches, literal texture, that kind of thing. Then combine them.

 

Your armour is looking fantastic, even with the basic texture. I was wondering how you did the stitching; is it done with a vector program, or did you do it in photoshop?

 

As for your lighting problem, I'm afraid I haven't encountered that one personally yet. If I had to guess I'd say it's to do with the shader properties in Nifskope. I think someone on TESA had a similar problem; you might want to start a thread over there.

That I did not know! I was hoping to just create some optical illusions with the diffuse map and then make a normal map directly from that, but as I've been playing around I'm not getting the results I want. Even though I loathe the thought of editing the mesh some more (took forever, OMG. I'm learning as I go...) I might add a subsurf modifier a get that detail in there.

 

Thank you! I'm working in photoshop. The stitches are just a simple custom brush: a narrow oval tilted on its side with very wide spacing. Add a subtle drop shadow for dimension, and voila! Stitches! It also helps that I'm working on a (ridiculously) large scale and then shrinking and sharpening for something useable in-game.

 

Wow, I've never been on TESA before. I'm such a modding n00b. I'll check it out. Thanks again.

[ResolveThatChord]

Ah, I tried the oval brush thing. My problem was that the ovals only faced one angle; I couldn't find a way to make them conform to the direction of the brush stroke. Is there a way, or do you have to change the brush angle every time you want the stitching to go in a different direction?

And definitely check out TESA. They're starting an online Skyrim modding school. They're doing everything from scripting to texturing to cluttering.

[Ghogiel]

I've seen people report this shadow issue several times, I've done a dozen models for skyrim now and have never seen it personally, my guess is that it has to do with the vert normals. in the nitrishapedata blocks may sure has normals is yes, num UV sets is 4097 and then spells>batch>update tangent space. Not sure what else it would be.

[tjakal]

The highest quality normal maps are baked by projecting high poly geometry down on low poly surfaces. That way you can build your model using millions of polygons in zbrush/mudbox and bake full blown GI lightning or whatever into your textures.

Using things like the N-vidia filter for normal maps essentially just give you a old school 'bump map' effect rather than unlocking the full potential normal maps provide. Skyrims vanilla content vary in what technique was used.