Ammunition reloading, you are all doing it wrong!

[Fatalmasterpiece]

One thing really bothers me about shooter type video games, every game featuring firearms seems to ignore the reality of magazines (colloquially called a "clip").

 

Most semi-automatic and automatic weapons use a magazine which facilitates reloading, holds the cartridges (colloquially called a bullets) and feeds them up into the receiver (mechanical portion of a firearm). The shell casing is then ejected from the port after the bullet is fired through the barrel.

http://cdn.thewire.com/img/upload/2013/01/08/bushmaster.gif

 

Magazines must be loaded with cartridges before being inserted into a firearm and fired. They have a set number of cartridges, for example this image shows a transparent, plastic, 30 round magazine.

 

 

Technically, you never reload a magazine fed weapon. You must reload your current magazine or insert one that has already been loaded. This is a huge part of firearms overlooked by the video game industry.

 

http://i.imgur.com/d7TdMDD.gif

 

For example, if you only have 2 magazines which each hold 30 rounds, you can only ever fire 60 rounds before you must stop and reload your magazines, which is a time consuming process unless you have special tools.

 

 

If you run out of magazines, you can no longer fire your weapon! For this reason, it is important to carry a side arm pistol. This aspect of combat with firearms is extremely important and overlooked in film and games. For this reason, revolvers, lever action and chamber loaded guns do have some advantages to prolonged firefights over magazine fed weapons.

 

In Fallout 4, you can mod your gun to hold more bullets and you seem to have an infinite amount of pre-loaded magazines. In reality, you only have as many magazines as you can carry and can find them in various capacities. Why are magazines completely ignored in video games and most films?

 

An exciting element of a survival game would be to only have a limited number of loaded magazines, knowing once you run out, you are in trouble. Finding magazines in the world would be an important process. Does anyone else ever consider this?

[Ethreon]

There's a level from which realism is too much and becomes tedium. And, as someone very clearly noted at some point, reloading weapons breaks the flow of a game, specially one that has ideas of being a shooter.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ethreon

[Fatalmasterpiece]

That's a good point, I still want to try it out!

 

My counter point is that at high levels, semi-automatic and automatic weapons seem to far overpower revolvers and breach loaded weapons. This could possibly be a balancing mechanism. Also, this could help nerf automatic weapons rather than the heavy damage penalty they already have.

[Fkemman11]

Hell while were at it- what about gun condition and keeping them cleaned? What about damaged cartridges that don't fire or back-fire. While I might enjoy a more realistic game-play experience I don't think many others would. It is as Ethreon said. Sad. But there it is. Were the game more focused on tactics and micromanagement then people would probably complain more about unnecessary complexity. :confused:

[Ethreon]

I think the overheating guns from ME1 are the best idea for a game in terms of balancing it out and forcing you to be more tactical. But .. clips, clips everywhere.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Hell while were at it- what about gun condition and keeping them cleaned? What about damaged cartridges that don't fire or back-fire. While I might enjoy a more realistic game-play experience I don't think many others would. It is as Ethreon said. Sad. But there it is. Were the game more focused on tactics and micromanagement then people would probably complain more about unnecessary complexity. :confused:

IIRC FONV did have weapon condition and repair. It wasn't tedious but it was poorly implimented because it could only be repaired by a similar weapon. FO4 could do much better by requiring components like oil, steel, springs etc.

A % chance of backfiring or gun jamming based on luck/perk level would be great. If it happens, an animation plays of your character clearing the jam until you can fire again as normal. Honestly I think people would love the suspense and challenge.

[Roentgens]

If you run out of magazines, you can no longer fire your weapon! For this reason, it is important to carry a side arm pistol. This aspect of combat with firearms is extremely important and overlooked in film and games. For this reason, revolvers, lever action and chamber loaded guns do have some advantages to prolonged firefights over magazine fed weapons.

 

You made a bunch of good points, but this was by far the strongest point made. The current simplified system removes one of the key strengths of chamber loaded guns and revolvers.

 

The way I see it is, even an advanced game like Stalker, which had an inventory system and ballistics modeling, did not use proper mags (but it did have weapons durability and jams). Fallout 4 doesn't even have weapons durability, let alone ballistics modeling or magazines. I could emerge from water and fire a waterlogged rifle without clearing it, etc.

 

Beth makes game worlds, their approach is very macro, and this is good enough for most players. In a way, survival mode was actually a real departure for Beth as it was a very micro oriented development. On the hierarchy of needs, there are so many things that could be implemented, that something like real time magazine and ammo management is a very low priority.

 

We could imagine the things that could be done though. Magazine and ammo management would change the game progression a lot. The difference between a raider and a Gunner could be the difference between a guy with a break action laying down potshots, versus a skilled enemy with automatic rifles and reliable magazines, with the ability to lay down a high volume of fire. It could really show the difference between an organized force with proper logistics, and a ragtag force that uses whatever they can scavenge.

 

A rookie protagonist might have to make do with single shot weapons in the beginning, but as they accumulate reliable mags, that pre-war automatic sitting back in town workbench might become viable later on. Of course, this skews the current perk system in favor of semi autos and single shot, but I'm sure that it could be worked around. You could even have mechanics like a load bearing vest that will let you have 6 ready mags that can reload a rifle at full speed, and the rest you will have to draw from the pack at the cost of time.

 

Generally, I think a real magazine/ammo mechanic would change the pacing quite a bit. More downtime between engagements, and the engagements themselves will be shorter, as the player will have less combat endurance.

[Fkemman11]

Well one thing that bothered me about that is only affected your char....and not enemies. It would be more fun if the rules applied to everyone's weapons. Like say a StuperMutie has the drop on you. But because the oaf has a gun in poor condition- it just goes click. do you think guns should be repaired anywhere or just at a workbench? Finding broken guns that could only be salvaged for parts is kinda cool. :happy:

[Ethreon]

To affect enemies they'd have to receive improved AI that made them loot and know how to repair. A bit over the top and unneeded.

Also, you can specialize in repair and pick the perk that allows you to fix anything with anything.

[Nutulator]

Simple--just carry the amount of ammunition you think would be appropriate and not one thousand one hundred and fifty seven .308 cartridges.