Very Low Quality Mods

[David Brasher]

@ Lisnpuppy

 

Part of me believes in anarchy and libertarianism -- people can do good with no organization forcing them to. There is no official mechanism to enforce mod quality standards and that is likely a good thing. We don't really want a police state ruling over our hobby.

 

Who decides what is indeed a crap mod?

 

The definition of a "bad mod" used by TES Nexus is a mod that does not do what it says it will, and/or has negative side effects. The side effects are verifiable objective bugs and mod dirt. Verifiable bugs can be duplicated again when someone goes to see if the bugs really exist and are caused by the mod. Objective bugs are bugs which all people would agree are bugs and which there are no grounds for argument over. A levitating rock with exposed bottom edges and invisible backside is a bug that no one can deny is a bug. It is just wrong and no one can say it is right. A subjective bug is something like, "Your mod has a bad bug! You have too many purple tapestries hanging on the walls. You need more blue ones!" This is subjective. This is a matter of taste, aesthetics, and art. Some people like blue, some people like purple, some like various proportions of each or some other color. This comment is just nonsense. it is not a bug. The mod author built it the way he or she wanted.

 

So to recap, these are characteristics of a bad mod:

 

(1) Doesn't do what the mod description says it will. (Mod does not work.)

(2) Mod has bugs that everyone would agree are bugs.

(3) Mod is dirty. (Mod dirt can break surrounding mods.)

 

So lets say someone uploads a mod named ZillyGinwiggers.esp. Its purpose is to make it so all the orcs have purple skin, talk in a silly voice, wear neon orange clothing, and carry pink parasols and daedric battleaxes. This mod does what the readme says it will, has no known bugs, and has been modcleaned.

 

Is this a bad mod?

 

I don't plan on downloading and playing it, and I doubt very many other people will either. But it does not meet the definition of "bad mod" so it it fine with me if it stays up there for people to download. I imagine someone will download it and enjoy it.

 

what exactly are you wanting to happen here?

 

As for what I would like to see happen: I would like people to provide feedback to mod authors. I would like them to make a commitment that each and every time they find that they have a bad mod, they will contact the author. They will make a comment on the mod thread and leave a useful bug report, or send the mod author a personal message saying the same thing.

 

Let's say that 25% of the gamers actually did this. Each and every time they play a bad mod, they contact the mod author. Comments serve a dual function, they not only tell the author about the bugs so that they can be fixed but they show potential downloaders that there are bad bugs. Most gamers will likely steer clear of the mod and not download. So let's use this in an example:

 

The modder with the user name NoobBoyTheArrogant uploads a quest mod called "SerchForThaHoleyGrel.esp." In the first three weeks after upload, he gets 100 downloads. The mod is a piece of junk because the quest-line always breaks so nobody ever beats the mod. Out of 100 downloads, 85 people actually play the mod. Out of the 85 people who play the mod, there are 80 angry customers who are unhappy with it. We are saying that 25% of the gamers are good citizens who always report every bad mod they play. So out of 80 unhappy gamers, there are 20 who take action, and 20 error reports and unhappy comments are placed at the download point.

 

Two things then happen:

 

(1) People who navigate to the download page for SerchForThaHoleyGrel see that 20 people have reported bugs and didn't enjoy the mod. Most of the people think twice about downloading this mod and run away. Those who do download know what to expect and are not totally surprised when they can't finish the quest.

(2) NoobBoyTheArrogant, if he ever reads his mail, discovers that he has 20 error reports. He is very self confidant, and nothing usually gets under his skin. But 20 bug reports? That is kind of a lot. And nobody has endorsed his mod, and nobody has even left any positive comments. His download count doesn't even go up very fast anymore. This is not how things were supposed to work out. After sulking for a few days and responding rudely to several bug reporters, he gets to thinking that maybe he needs to fix the bugs, change his mod documentation to explain about the bugs, or pull down the mod. All this negative feedback is actually starting to get to him.

Edited February 6, 2012 by David Brasher

[Lisnpuppy]

Fair enough.

 

Again I would suggest that you gather with your fellow modders...perhaps even posting this in the modders section to devise between yourselves the "best practices" of modding and then begin remarking in the way you have put down on mods that you may use (if any.) Now as far as to what happens to mods found to have bugs...it is not typical practice to take down a mod for non-intentional bugs and any ideas you have to that would have to be directed to Dark0ne or any sites in which you plan to use.

 

That being said at least here, we already have our hands full just with the issues we have. *shrugs*

 

This community has survived this far because of its ability to manage itself. In my opinion getting your fellow modders to chime in on this and perhaps participate in putting something together and then leading by example would be you best bet for success. I will be honest that hoping people will change their ways is hoping for a great deal. We can't even get people to report obvious infractions of rules and sometimes LAWS, so to get them to make consistent and good reports on files and mod authors to then react responsibly will be a huge task.

 

Again I urge you to invite other modders in with these ideas as I do think they have merit and getting the modding community behind a best mod practices could well be way to begin this.

 

Good Luck!

[lonewolfkai]

I think one of the biggest problems with these low quality mods is that the authors usually just dump them on the file upload and never look at them again. That's one thing I never understood. Why take the time to upload a mod you'd never take care of? I can completely understand time constraints, and usually those that have time constraints will actually state that in the description/readme. Edited February 6, 2012 by lonewolf_kai

[qwertywun]

Some good points in this thread but its hard to read it all cuz people are making a sentence into an essay.

 

Everyone has got to start somewhere so as long as they improve/update problems with their mods then they are learning & doing something constructive (even if the mod is not up to par).

 

I don't like mods that are buggy/don't work properly either but there is one simple thing to do once spot a mod has problems; leave feedback & deactivate the mod until its fixed (if it gets fixed). If the author has many mods like this just avoid their mods.

Edited February 6, 2012 by qwertywun

[lonewolfkai]

Some good points in this thread but its hard to read it all cuz people are making a sentence into an essay.

 

 

:blink:

[Nephenee13]

I think one of the biggest problems with these low quality mods is that the authors usually just dump them on the file upload and never look at them again. That's one thing I never understood. Why take the time to upload a mod you'd never take care of? I can completely understand time constraints, and usually those that have time constraints will actually state that in the description/readme.

 

This. Very much this.

 

Also badly written descriptions, no images, and a general lack of, well, professionalism.

 

No, we aren't professionals, but people should have some pride in their work, dammit.

[Lanceor]

Bad modders? I say hit em with a carrot, not a stick. Some are genuinely learning... let's nicely show them the proper way and let them choose whether to follow suit.

 

The ones who don't take feedback will continue to develop broken, buggy mods while seeing other similar mods getting endorsed to high heaven. They'll eventually change their modding practices or frustrate themselves out of the modding community.

[garx2y]

I'm a long time member of the Bethesda's Oblivion Mods forum and have never really followed this one before now. But somehow I found myself here and reading this thread from beginning to end. Though I've been gaming since gaming began and been a mod user for years, I've never made a mod and likely never will.

 

I have a great deal of respect for many mod makers (not all), and dearly appreciate what they so generously provide for my gaming enjoyment. However, there is an often repeated position taken by some mod makers that I have a hard time sympathizing with.

 

It's the “Mod makers don't owe mod users anything”. Or approached from a different angle “I mod for myself, not for others”.

 

Now it's not that I find this position totally with out merit, It's just that it seems lacking the basic consideration and empathy required of harmonious interaction with others. Or as the saying goes “Courtesy is the grease that lubricates the wheels of society”.

 

All of which brings me around to stating my support, agreement, and admiration for Mr. Brasher's position on the matter.

[Nephenee13]

It's the “Mod makers don't owe mod users anything”. Or approached from a different angle “I mod for myself, not for others”.

 

Now it's not that I find this position totally with out merit, It's just that it seems lacking the basic consideration and empathy required of harmonious interaction with others. Or as the saying goes “Courtesy is the grease that lubricates the wheels of society”.

 

All of which brings me around to stating my support, agreement, and admiration for Mr. Brasher's position on the matter.

 

Exactly. Mod makers (and I count myself only just barely in the same category as some people in this thread) make mods because they want to, but if we're going to share them, there should be an expectation of a minimum level of presentation and quality. Things don't have to be perfect, but you've got to give people something. "No Pics No Clicks" is a tad overly pithy and reductive, but its got more than just a bit of truth to it.

 

Take for example This Mod that popped up yesterday. What does it do? I have no idea! And nothing about it inspires me to find out. Sure, it could be utterly amazing and the next best mod ever, but due to how it was presented, I and apparently no one else, are going to find out.

[lonewolfkai]

I'm a long time member of the Bethesda's Oblivion Mods forum and have never really followed this one before now. But somehow I found myself here and reading this thread from beginning to end. Though I've been gaming since gaming began and been a mod user for years, I've never made a mod and likely never will.

 

I have a great deal of respect for many mod makers (not all), and dearly appreciate what they so generously provide for my gaming enjoyment. However, there is an often repeated position taken by some mod makers that I have a hard time sympathizing with.

 

It's the “Mod makers don't owe mod users anything”. Or approached from a different angle “I mod for myself, not for others”.

 

Now it's not that I find this position totally with out merit, It's just that it seems lacking the basic consideration and empathy required of harmonious interaction with others. Or as the saying goes “Courtesy is the grease that lubricates the wheels of society”.

 

All of which brings me around to stating my support, agreement, and admiration for Mr. Brasher's position on the matter.

I wasn't going to respond to this at first, but since I'm one of the ones that says "I mod for myself, not for others," I feel the need to interject what I should have also stated. And that is:

 

If a modder truly cares about their own mod, regardless of reason for producing such a mod, it will show, and they will take care of it.

 

And I'm sure you can sympathize with that.

 

And let's be honest here, there is always a reason a modder makes a mod that includes something for themselves. You're fooling yourself to say so otherwise.

Edited February 13, 2012 by lonewolf_kai