What benefit is the CK the Bethsoft?

[jet4571]

 

Modding may have been around for a long time...but it now is direct competition for DLC...after all, why buy Horse Armor when you can get 20 variations of Horse Armor for free?

 

I think the rise of DLC, especially item-oriented DLC like Horse Armor, GRA, etc. Is the biggest threat to modding as we know it.

 

Wow you have no clue do you? There were mods years before DLC was ever heard of or any publisher used the acronym. Infact if you get down into it DLC is a concept that publishers stole from modders. Instead of free they charge money for it because they are greedy bastards. But DLC has the advantage of being 3/4 finished for some games and completed for others on day 1. Take Horse armor for Oblivion, was incomplete when Oblivion was released but instead of calling it a day and all that work a loss they completed it and sold it as DLC. Now take anything DLC for any of the COD games and that s*** was done before the game hit the shelves.

 

Historically DLC was always included in an update free of charge until someone decided to see if idiots would buy it. and they did. Also oddly enough it was console gamers who bought DLC and made it a norm to pay for s*** we used to get for free.

 

 

Sorry, since everything you said backs up my point of view, how is it that I have no clue?

 

Now that companies have discovered and are emphasizing DLC even more (To the point of deliberately releasing half-finished games to sell you the rest later) it really benefits them financially to eliminate mods and the modding community.

 

I think that eventually Zenimax will decide that it's better to sell 200k copies of a weapon pack now than spread out some unknown number of game sales over 10 years.

But there will be a time where their team will have to move on to new projects,and will stop making dlcs for that game.

And after that there will be no new stuff to keep players interested.

 

LOL you skipped my response to his claim that i was backing his ideas up. BTW. #1 in your list was pretty much the same thing I wrote a few years ago. near word for word! the rest is about the same list i did too but not quite the same terminology. possibly i was quoted once and you read it then paraphrased it here. not that it really matters just was surprised to read that. If it was all out of your own head then that's the dozen monkeys bashing away at typewriters replicating Shakespeare after so many years theory made into fact.

[Alithinos]

 

Modding may have been around for a long time...but it now is direct competition for DLC...after all, why buy Horse Armor when you can get 20 variations of Horse Armor for free?

 

I think the rise of DLC, especially item-oriented DLC like Horse Armor, GRA, etc. Is the biggest threat to modding as we know it.

 

Wow you have no clue do you? There were mods years before DLC was ever heard of or any publisher used the acronym. Infact if you get down into it DLC is a concept that publishers stole from modders. Instead of free they charge money for it because they are greedy bastards. But DLC has the advantage of being 3/4 finished for some games and completed for others on day 1. Take Horse armor for Oblivion, was incomplete when Oblivion was released but instead of calling it a day and all that work a loss they completed it and sold it as DLC. Now take anything DLC for any of the COD games and that s*** was done before the game hit the shelves.

 

Historically DLC was always included in an update free of charge until someone decided to see if idiots would buy it. and they did. Also oddly enough it was console gamers who bought DLC and made it a norm to pay for s*** we used to get for free.

 

 

Sorry, since everything you said backs up my point of view, how is it that I have no clue?

 

Now that companies have discovered and are emphasizing DLC even more (To the point of deliberately releasing half-finished games to sell you the rest later) it really benefits them financially to eliminate mods and the modding community.

 

I think that eventually Zenimax will decide that it's better to sell 200k copies of a weapon pack now than spread out some unknown number of game sales over 10 years.

But there will be a time where their team will have to move on to new projects,and will stop making dlcs for that game.

And after that there will be no new stuff to keep players interested.

 

LOL you skipped my response to his claim that i was backing his ideas up. BTW. #1 in your list was pretty much the same thing I wrote a few years ago. near word for word! the rest is about the same list i did too but not quite the same terminology. possibly i was quoted once and you read it then paraphrased it here. not that it really matters just was surprised to read that. If it was all out of your own head then that's the dozen monkeys bashing away at typewriters replicating Shakespeare after so many years theory made into fact.

Believe me I didn't bothered to search what threads you made as long as you are on Nexus to reply to you.

[jet4571]

snip

Believe me I didn't bothered to search what threads you made as long as you are on Nexus to reply to you.

 

It wasn't anything I wrote on the Nexus, was a few years ago for another game and a complete different game genre. I just was fascinated to see it.

[elricshan]

Borborygmus,you can do anyting whit the CK,just like in oblivion and fallout.

 

 

yes, this utterly fails to answer my question, which essentially boiled down to "can non computer smart people use the CK"

 

it depends on how "non computer smart" you are. If the CK functions anything like Oblivions CS, the average user can probably start modding after reading a couple of tutorials. Rigging up story lines will take learning scripting to really be effective though. Now, if you are great-grandpa Jim-bob (no offence, jim-bobs of the world) Can't figure out how to turn it off "non computer smart" there is probably no amount of tutorials that will help you.

 

well the ck is mutch like a drag and place when you make new areas. if you are displeased with how mutch a sword damage you just change the numbers (same for armors) and it is jsut as simple renaming and creating new things (that still looks like a normal thing but can have a cool name and cool enchantment.)

[Judasace]

Previously, mods weren't competing with anything other than expansions and those were so full of content that it wasn't much of a competition.

 

Now there are a lot of smaller DLCs, some of which are nearly identical to mods.

 

Sa yes, Mods are "now" competition, because (as you yourself stated) the DLC wasn't around before...many of the things that used to to be free are now DLCs.

 

 

No It does not back your point of view as you wrote it. You write that mods are now direct competition for DLC when that's not true. DLC is a stolen concept from modders that was bastardized. In the quote you claim it to be otherwise buy saying that mods are NOW competing with DLC.

 

BTW I dont agree with you at all. Mods help companies! Just ask Alithinos who just about quoted me with his own words in a similar discussion I had a couple years ago.

 

So your question is what's the gain from Bethesda's part,right ?

Well while mods could take the place of some would be dlcs,in the long run modding benefits them,and in many ways too.

 

1) First of all it keeps players being kept interested in a game,long after it's over. The more people playing your game for the more time,the better.

 

2) The continuous occupation of people with their game creates an automatic hype around this game and the next one for the series,a hype the developer/publisher doesn't have to move its little finger to achieve it other than just releasing the tools,and of course hype is always welcome.

 

3) The more in numbers and more good in quality the mods are,there are more chances some players would be willing to buy the game after a while.Some people didn't bought Skyrim because they weren't so interested in the setting or didn't liked its gameplay.But depending on the nature and amount of its mods,it will make a bunch of people to actually go and buy it after they see what mods are out there.

For example that's what happened to me with Half Life 2.(Yeah I know it's a good game and should have played it no matter its mods or not)

 

4) Finally,it gives them ideas and let them see how their game would play if it had some new features in it that they didn't bothered to implement theirselves.They might hadn't done a feature for the game during its development because they weren't sure how it would end up and if it worthed it.But if a feature gets done by some modder team,and it works well,they have a good example of what feature they could add in their next game.

[Judasace]

 

Modding may have been around for a long time...but it now is direct competition for DLC...after all, why buy Horse Armor when you can get 20 variations of Horse Armor for free?

 

I think the rise of DLC, especially item-oriented DLC like Horse Armor, GRA, etc. Is the biggest threat to modding as we know it.

 

Wow you have no clue do you? There were mods years before DLC was ever heard of or any publisher used the acronym. Infact if you get down into it DLC is a concept that publishers stole from modders. Instead of free they charge money for it because they are greedy bastards. But DLC has the advantage of being 3/4 finished for some games and completed for others on day 1. Take Horse armor for Oblivion, was incomplete when Oblivion was released but instead of calling it a day and all that work a loss they completed it and sold it as DLC. Now take anything DLC for any of the COD games and that s*** was done before the game hit the shelves.

 

Historically DLC was always included in an update free of charge until someone decided to see if idiots would buy it. and they did. Also oddly enough it was console gamers who bought DLC and made it a norm to pay for s*** we used to get for free.

 

 

Sorry, since everything you said backs up my point of view, how is it that I have no clue?

 

Now that companies have discovered and are emphasizing DLC even more (To the point of deliberately releasing half-finished games to sell you the rest later) it really benefits them financially to eliminate mods and the modding community.

 

I think that eventually Zenimax will decide that it's better to sell 200k copies of a weapon pack now than spread out some unknown number of game sales over 10 years.

But there will be a time where their team will have to move on to new projects,and will stop making dlcs for that game.

And after that there will be no new stuff to keep players interested.

 

That may be true, but if you assume that the new games they're making are going to attract the same or similar audience, then you WANT people to stop playing your old game and move on to the new.

 

When TES VI comes out, it will not help the company if 10% of their playerbase can just shrug and ignore it because they can get endless free content for Skyrim.

 

If people never got bored of games and moved on to new ones, there wouldn't be any need to make new games. And selling a few thousand copies of GOTY editions at $20 a pop isn't the kind of income they're looking for, now when they can convert those purchases to copies of a new $60 game and all it's associated DLCs.

[nosisab]

I can't understand all this debate, The modding tools for all Bethesda games have helped them selling their games from day one, plain simple... "It's a powerful tool to create mods for the game we are giving to you for free, ladies and gentlemen, have fun", and it works wonders, even if the tool is not there from day one...

 

PS: To understand better, Morrowind indeed came with CS from day one. It was there, it showed it's power, it was not only a vague promise. It was so successful than now they can even release the game and promise the tool to be launched sometime after and this is enough, for they have fulfilled the promise to date and created a "healthy" fanbase which actively create content for the game, provide many ideas for future games enhancement. But above all provides the best marketing there is, that is the personal recommendation to friends, colleagues, the dog and everyone else.

Edited February 7, 2012 by nosisab

[adembroski]

As someone who works in the gaming industry (and one of my coworkers worked on Oblivion, so I'll ask him when I get in later), I would bet the CK has VERY little measurable effect on the bottom line.

 

Where it's greatest benefit is, I would suspect, is generating brand loyalty. Believe it or not, companies do value you're opinion of them. The concept of "Branding" is a direct result of that, because the long term benefits of wide spread brand loyalty is that you can put out a stinker (Dragon Age II) and people will give you the benefit of the doubt on your next release (Old Republic). Additionally, you want to be a defining name in a given genre. When you think sports gaming, you think EA Sports. This isn't because EA makes the best sports games (I would argue NBA 2k & MLB: The Show are higher quality than anything EA makes), but because they've so successfully branded themselves. Bioware created this with Neverwinter Nights (to this day, the most mod-friendly RPG ever made, to the point where the game itself wasn't as good as it could have been because of it).

 

Bethesda, bless 'em, still values its PC roots above and beyond any other major developer I can think of. The money's in the console game now, but they're doing what they can to let the PC crowd know they're still valued. That in and of itself is impressive.

[adembroski]

so how accessable will the CK be to the complete modding novice? i have absolutely no background in programming or really in computers at all. will i be able to use the CK to rig up story lines i like, or do i need a much higher degree of coding experience etc to even use the thing?

 

The benefit that a content creator at Bethesda has is the engineers to built the tool available to ask question, and the fact that a given designer probably only works in one small area of the engine at a time.

 

That said, it isn't horribly difficult to learn if you have patience and an aptitude for it. You likely wont be churning out total conversion mods in a week, but if you learn it piece meal, use the available tutorials and ask the right questions on here, a novice can be damn productive in it.

 

You don't need engineering experience at all, but a rudimentary understanding of how code works will help you learn the scripting language.