LE Oblivion-style spell / weapon handling

[zack_falcon]

Well, I'm starting with the basic "Hello World" Message for Skyrim... I'm not sure if that needs scripting.

 

Is the Creation Kit the only way to make mods / scripts? Or is there another way?

[FWB]

I'm sure there's other ways, since scripts are present in all games. Plus they've been written before the creation kit was out for programs like skse to use. Though it would really help if there were a decent scriptor interested in helping out for this.

[zack_falcon]

Hehehe. This is a lot harder than I thought. Barely got the "Hello World" right... sigh.

[Lokiron]

I think making spells equippable works well and looks really cool, and I wouldn't want that changed for my own game. I like the trade-offs you need to make here; two spells for magic diversity, dual-cast for magic might, spell+weapon for whatever reason, shield for protection, and so on.

 

However, I would like to be able to have a spell in my right hand while my bow is idle in my left. My right mouse button could control the spell and left mouse button would shoot the bow, temporarily disrupting the spell, which would return after the arrow has fired. Same goes for two-handed weapons - you could carry your weapon with one hand (spell in the other), but you need two to attack.

 

I would not want to have spells available when I go shield+weapon og dual wield weapons. This just doesn't make sense to me. But then shields need a buff I think and dual wield now has parry with this mod (also works for spell+weapon). So for me, it's all very much getting there :smile:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9247

[Arrun]

i made my own thread on this and would have simply contributed to this one if i'd seen it (cheers Lokiron).

 

My qualm with the current system was also aesthetics and not just laboriousness (i hated my weapons just vanishing then reappearing from thin air as i play in 3rd person), so i suggested that it be the same as Oblivion: say you may bind a key of one's choice to do magic irrespective of weapon. Obviously if you have another weapon in hand EG. A 2H Sword, only one hand may be used for spells (with that in mind, perhaps adding a bonus feature for spells like firestorm that require 2 hands to be changed to require one would be a nice touch.)

 

Good luck to anyone who endeavours to do this !

[zack_falcon]

I think making spells equippable works well and looks really cool, and I wouldn't want that changed for my own game. I like the trade-offs you need to make here; two spells for magic diversity, dual-cast for magic might, spell+weapon for whatever reason, shield for protection, and so on.

 

However, I would like to be able to have a spell in my right hand while my bow is idle in my left. My right mouse button could control the spell and left mouse button would shoot the bow, temporarily disrupting the spell, which would return after the arrow has fired. Same goes for two-handed weapons - you could carry your weapon with one hand (spell in the other), but you need two to attack.

 

I would not want to have spells available when I go shield+weapon og dual wield weapons. This just doesn't make sense to me. But then shields need a buff I think and dual wield now has parry with this mod (also works for spell+weapon). So for me, it's all very much getting there :smile:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9247

 

That's what my friend told me. :laugh: How can you fire a spell when you have a weapon / shield in each hand? If you use flames, you'd burn through them...

 

But then of course, if you use flames on someone, their weapons don't burn off either...

 

Realism aside, I simply find this new system tedious, and in some applications, it tends to be illogical. For example, you have a sword, and a spell. And you can't block. Ditto if you're holding (but not using) a bow. Why?

 

Anyway, that's why the mod I have in mind is not a complete overhaul (as much as I'd like it to be), as that would be too difficult for my current level of scripting competence.

 

Nay, I propose a "Macro key"... Picture this, press a key (say, G) and the character automatically unequips whatever is in his left hand and uses a spell of choice. You have to hold / tap the key for it to work. Release the key, and the character wields whatever was in his left hand, be it shield, sword, nothing, or a bow. We'll use another key (H, perhaps) for his right hand. Same controls. He does it all in a blink of an eye.

 

You can still get the trade-offs some people like, but at the same time, you have a reliable panic button; Instead of pressing 3 twice to double-equip your flames, then pressing 2 and 1 to re-equip you sword and shield when you realized your enemy's attack is devastating, you can just tap / hold G and/or H to use a spell of choice, afterwards the character automatically wields whatever he was last using. Less tedious.

 

And that's my idea for the mod. I have no idea how to do it. LOL. But I won't give up yet.

Edited February 23, 2012 by zack_falcon

[Arrun]

I think making spells equippable works well and looks really cool, and I wouldn't want that changed for my own game. I like the trade-offs you need to make here; two spells for magic diversity, dual-cast for magic might, spell+weapon for whatever reason, shield for protection, and so on.

 

However, I would like to be able to have a spell in my right hand while my bow is idle in my left. My right mouse button could control the spell and left mouse button would shoot the bow, temporarily disrupting the spell, which would return after the arrow has fired. Same goes for two-handed weapons - you could carry your weapon with one hand (spell in the other), but you need two to attack.

 

I would not want to have spells available when I go shield+weapon og dual wield weapons. This just doesn't make sense to me. But then shields need a buff I think and dual wield now has parry with this mod (also works for spell+weapon). So for me, it's all very much getting there :smile:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=9247

 

That's what my friend told me. :laugh: How can you fire a spell when you have a weapon / shield in each hand? If you use flames, you'd burn through them...

 

But then of course, if you use flames on someone, their weapons don't burn off either...

 

Realism aside, I simply find this new system tedious, and in some applications, it tends to be illogical. For example, you have a sword, and a spell. And you can't block. Ditto if you're holding (but not using) a bow. Why?

 

Anyway, that's why the mod I have in mind is not a complete overhaul (as much as I'd like it to be), as that would be too difficult for my current level of scripting competence.

 

Nay, I propose a "Macro key"... Picture this, press a key (say, G) and the character automatically unequips whatever is in his left hand and uses a spell of choice. You have to hold / tap the key for it to work. Release the key, and the character wields whatever was in his left hand, be it shield, sword, nothing, or a bow. We'll use another key (H, perhaps) for his right hand. Same controls. He does it all in a blink of an eye.

 

You can still get the trade-offs some people like, but at the same time, you have a reliable panic button; Instead of pressing 3 twice to double-equip your flames, then pressing 2 and 1 to re-equip you sword and shield when you realized your enemy's attack is devastating, you can just tap / hold G and/or H to use a spell of choice, afterwards the character automatically wields whatever he was last using. Less tedious.

 

And that's my idea for the mod. I have no idea how to do it. LOL. But I won't give up yet.

 

I hope then that someone else manages to do this, since this wouldn't fix the aesthetic part of the problem (ie a sword that just vanishes to be replaced by a spell)

 

Also, the whole 'fire would burn through your shield' is nonsensical, as if that were true, it'd also burn off your hand.

[Lokiron]

I would not want to have spells available when I go shield+weapon og dual wield weapons. This just doesn't make sense to me.

That's what my friend told me. :laugh: How can you fire a spell when you have a weapon / shield in each hand? If you use flames, you'd burn through them...

 

But then of course, if you use flames on someone, their weapons don't burn off either...

Also, the whole 'fire would burn through your shield' is nonsensical, as if that were true, it'd also burn off your hand.

 

The reason I don't think this makes sense is not due to damage on the items carried. My reasoning comes from Dungeons & Dragons (although they did not invent this) in which some degree of manual dexterity is required to perform spells. Most spells have so called somatic components (in addition to verbal and material components) that are specific arcane gestures. Harry Potter also has this very important element; magic words go along with magic wand gestures (unless the wizard is highly skilled).

 

I have always liked this idea for the sheer flair of it.

Which is why I could see this removed by perks, actually! Idea just popped in :biggrin:

A highly skilled mage could possibly cast spells regardless of carried items! I actually love this idea already!

Edited February 23, 2012 by Lokiron

[zack_falcon]

The whole fire / weapon thing was just an old argument of my friend, who favors this system of "Spells are weapons" instead of Oblivion's "Spells are freaking Spells" system. I then asked him "What if I want to heal?" His argument became invalid.

 

And come on, I mean, I've never read or seen a book / movie mage go:

 

"Woah, hold up, low on health. Gotta put away my shield / sword and cast a healing spell. No sneak attacks, bro. Not cool."

 

I understand that there *should* be some trade-offs, but there are situations where players need the defense of a shield, the offense of a sword, and the utility of a spell, without sacrificing one for the other.

 

This is what I, eventually, aim to fix. The Macro Key idea is nothing more but a cheap fix, but I suppose it's a step in the right direction. After all, with that idea my character will still need to put away something in order to use the spell, albeit briefly and it comes back automatically. If I can get the player to use a spell without the need to remove anything at all, so much the better. Animations can come later.

 

There should be limitations, of course, using flames while drawing an arrow wouldn't make sense. What would make sense is using flames while drawing an arrow will allow you to fire flaming arrows, but that's another story.

 

Anyway, all this is still big talk for a small guy. I need more time and definitely more experience with the Creation Kit.

[Scourched]

Zack, how's things going with this? Or just the idea in general? I had to do a search in this forum before posting the topic as I was sure it would have already been posted, and I was right. I knew I wasn't alone in the thought of playing a 2H character but being unable to cast while holding the weapon.

 

In fact, I still kind of can't believe a mod for this hasn't happened yet, it's kind of shocking. I hope it doesn't take the 1 year anniversary special of the game to produce this mod. I mean I rather get it later than never, but it's still surprising to see it hasn't been done yet.