What if Fallout 4 was GOOD!

[WolfmanMODS]

A Mod Initiative to Remake Fallout 4’s Main Storylines

In Fallout 4 Bethesda did a decent job of making a post Apocalypse themed open world fantasy adventure game with some minor RPG elements built in. A leveled game that offers players the option to become perfectly SPECIAL regardless of starting stats, the game also allows weapons to be leveled up and equipped with various ammo powers for maximum effect. Furthermore, Fallout 4 fittingly offers 4 unique ways to become a major power player in the Commonwealth, via fully voice acted dialog wheel interactions with various NPC characters, without ever really having to ponder any serious morality or philosophical questions along the way.

 

While this would arguably have been a good game if it was the first in the series, and sold as a fantasy adventure title. Sadly however, this is not what the Fallout franchise is supposed to be, and thus Fallout 4 fails to be a game worthy of its prefix! Thus I am looking to remake the main story of Fallout 4 to be a narrative both worthy of the Fallout universe and also allow the game to embrace the sandification of the game's setting than that made FNV such a good game.

 

If your impressions of FO4 were similar, and you agree that the main story needs to be fixed, then I encourage you to both checkout my following synopsis of the issues with FO4, and my fixes for it. Then comment your thoughts about it, or better yet volunteer to help rework FO4, any way you can, into a game that is a worthy successor to not just FO3, but FO1 too! If however, you thought FO4 was an unrivaled masterpiece of a game then I highly recommend you read no further.

 

 

 

Synopsis of Fallout 4’s Shortfalls:

The biggest problem with Fallout 4, is that the game is quite simply is not very immersive for fans of the franchise due to numerous issues. The first and most glaring of which is that FO4 fails to be a proper science fiction title, unlike its predecessors, but rather it is a fantasy title. Which is to say that it’s more akin to Skyrim, complete with magically charged weapons and enchanted creatures who drop them, then it is Fallout 3 or FNV! Which given how much more depth there would be to the commonwealth if it was a Mad Science world environment, rather than a fantasy one, it is quite frankly a real shame Bethesda blurred the line between the two genres.

 

Further ruining immersion is that Fallout 4 lacks any kind of real introspection/discussion on various moral issues and leaves unanswered many critical questions about the Commonwealth, the Institute, and Synths, to name a few, that a serious RPG would endeavor to explore in detail. Though each of these issues ruins the immersion of the game in its own way, all of them compound in the main storyline and utterly break its cohesion/plausibility, no matter which way you play it!

 

Don’t get me wrong Bethesda did a fantastic job with the unique and colorful artwork for the set dressing in FO4 that unlike F03 & NFV makes verticality of the environment, especially downtown Boston, an interesting and engaging aspect of gameplay. Additionally, the Commonwealth itself, plus the DLC locations, are arguably the best leveled sandbox environment Bethesda has cranked out to date.

Bethesda also did a good job of creating weapons that fit the Fallout universe’s 50’s styling and offered an unprecedented amount of customization on most of these weapons too boot.

However, while the art style and “gun play” of the weapons was great, with the notable exception of the obviously hurried “combat rifle”. The weapons were what ruined the immersion of the game for me, within one hour of exiting vault 111! For as you might have guessed, the laundry list of “Legendary” effects I started to discover after leaving the vault, in addition to the botched laser musket and minigun, made it very apparent that the relevant personnel at Bethesda/Zenimax clearly had no freaking grasp of modern scientific, or even mad scientific principles.

And of course, compounding weapons that broke all known laws of physics. Was the aforementioned looting system for acquiring them, in which mutant flies, barely able to hover more than a few feet off the ground by themselves, would often drop 10 pound alchemical sniper rifles in perfect working order! Some of which were longer than the fly itself!!

Now while I can’t blame the “deciding forces” at Bethesda/Zenimax for being much more familiar with enchanted swords, then 44 magnum revolvers. I can however find fault with them for not consulting with requisite experts on the subject or taking advantage of the numerous fans who own real guns and would gladly have contributed input for free. Or even quite simply looking at previous titles in the series such as FNV which had much more realistic ranged weapons.

Symptomatic of the game as a whole, ranged weapons are just an example of how off the mark Bethesda was with making Fallout 4 be true to its mad science and morally engaging roots. For instance you can never ask the Railroad if they want the institute to keep making synths for them to try and free, or if they would prefer to slow if not outright shut down the production of artificial humans. Nor you can ask Father if he thinks replacing people with synths, that can’t reproduce, is really such a good idea!

However for all its faults, I should note that FO4 is still a pretty decent game, that I enjoyed playing for several dozen hours before the game lost its appeal for me to play any further in Vanilla mode. In fact I dare say that Colin Moriarty, rather fittingly, put it best in his interview with Pete Hines “Fallout 4 I loved obviously -- but it didn’t resonate with me the way Fallout 3 did”.

 

Furthermore, Bethesda has released official modding tools for FO4 which is commendable as many games disappoint and many more fail at franchise promises. Thus, that Bethesda created such a useful set of assets and the tools with which to reshape them as modders see fit. Is something I very much intend to take advantage of rather than eternally having to deal with what I can only conclude is a horribly flawed game, that is quite simply not nearly as good nor immersive, as it could have been. In fact I have been diligently reworking the entire ranged weapons system, to not only match, but exceed the realism of FNV.

 

Though making weapons, and other aspects of gameplay, realistic is just the start for what I think needs to be accomplished in order to make Fallout 4 a truly good game; and the following are my current ideas for not just fixing the other immersion breaking aspects of the vanilla game, but making a far more engaging game.

 

 

Fixing Factions:

In this planned revision of FO4 one of the primary goals of the mod will be to make both the Institute and the commonwealth conform to what was described about them in FO3. To this end the Institute will not be some meddling shadow organization, rather it will be a full-fledged governing body with several technologically advanced above ground city centers under its control, that are located towards the southern end of the map. Akin to the level of cleanliness and complexity found in the underground world of the current Institute, these cities will be a marveling beacon of civilization in such an utter radioactive wasteland.

 

A seeming Utopia of existence to its citizens, including a working Nuka Cola bottling plant, one need only dig a little to find that these cities hide an ugly secret. Building and maintaining them are numerous enslaved gen 3 Synths, living in decrepit conditions and forced to do a variety of very dangerous, if not highly demeaning, tasks. Enslaved Synths typically have a short life expectancy at the end of which they are recycled for parts.

 

The visible day-to-day governing body of these high tech cites is called the New Commonwealth Democracy (NCD), and it is the supreme military power of the Commonwealth, having crushed those who oppose it without mercury using their armies of Gen 1 & 2 synths, which are often supplemented by Gunner mercenaries. Though despite its military prowess the NCD answers directly to the Central Institute Board, who operates out of a fortified remote bunker, and has the power to literally shut down any cities who refuse to follow its directives, or pay taxes.

 

In a similar fashion, the NCD has influence in Diamond City and Bunker Hill, which it considers to be its’ annexed territories. Providing only token security, and largely leaving the citizens of these cities alone, it’s an open secret that the NCD’s only real interest in annexing the two settlements was to help pad its coffers, which it does with a Nuka Tariff and Noodle Tax in Bunker Hill and Diamond City respectively. Also several NCD citizens, and even leaders, are often known to visit some of the shadier establishments in both cities periodically.

 

As for the common people of the Commonwealth itself, Located throughout the North, are various Minuteman settlements, many of which are deserted, having been attacked and destroyed by NCD forces. The few rare survivors of these attacks, have noted that the “cannon fodder” gen 1 synth used to attack the settlements used stun weapons and took everyone they could catch as prisoner, none of whom have ever been seen again! Direct descendants of the common folk living in the Commonwealth before the bombs fell, these Minuteman settlements are Marcella’s people and subsequently are a Christian society who believe that gen 3 synths do not have souls much the same as dogs do not have one. However, while they don’t give high value to Synth life, they do feel it is wrong to enslave synths, just as it is wrong to keep dogs in cages their whole lives and make them fight each other; albeit the vast majority of Minutemen are unwilling to take on the NCD forces in order to act on that belief.

 

A subsequent offshoot branch of the Minuteman, is the Railroad who philosophically differ from their kin and believe that gen 3 synths do indeed have souls, arguing that a person formed in a vat is no different than one formed in a womb. Taking this dedication to heart, the Railroad works to subversively free Synths from the southern NCD settlements. With agents on the inside pretending to be Synth workers and even a few NCD residents sympathetic with their cause, one thing the Railroad has come to realize is that while the location of the factories for the Gen 1 & 2 synths are known, no one has any idea where Gen 3 synths are produced. Only that every so often a guarded supply truck shows up with new ones and carts off the “broken” ones for recycling. Several agents have tailed these trucks to the Central Institute Board’s bunker only to find that when they finally sneak past the automated defenses there are no signs of the truck or its guards except for tire tracks and footprints. In fact there is no sign of anyone, even the Central Institute Board!

 

Rewritten to be more akin to Talon Company then raiders, the Gunners will start non-hostile to the player, so long as they are not hired by one NPC or another to gun down the Sole Survivor for any myriad of reasons; of which there will be an option to outbid those who want you dead and have the gunners kill them instead! Also, if possessing sufficient caps, the player can hire the Gunners to aid in completing various quests, but beware, just as you can outbid so too can NPC’s and there will be many in the Waste who are richer then you! Also able to join and then become the leader of the Gunners, one had better make sure to keep the grunts busy and receiving a steady stream of caps, otherwise violent mutiny will likely ensue.

 

In similar fashion Triggermen are not de facto raiders, and will correspondingly allow safe passage around their much expanded territory just so long as they are paid “Protection Money” every so often. Just the same as the gunners, one can join and eventually become the group’s leader, but they had better not become kingpin and then spend 20 hours in the wastes without occasionally checking back in to issue orders, lest their crew get restless and find a new leader who’s more interested in doing the job.

 

The Children of Atom will be more or less the same as they are in the game currently, though there will be an expanded quest lines when joining them to find the Abbey of the Road, and turn it into a radioactive waste dump for the GLORY OF ATOM! Likewise, there will be a reciprocal quest line, should the player find and join the Abbey of the Road, to use a modified GECK and make the Crater of Atom a rad free grassy Oasis with palm trees.

 

As it's entirely too convenient that Nuka raiders wait until you show up at Nuka World to start raiding settlements one final rewrite to the main Commonwealth factions will be to make raiders in general more organized and have Nuka raiders randomly conducting raids on their own, to devastating effect. Additionally, raider random encounters throughout the Commonwealth will sometimes be from one of the main Nuka World clans in addition to the regular variety of raider.

 

Still a mid-game arrival, aside from Danse, Haylen, Rhys & Brandis, the Brotherhood of Steel, will come charging in not lead by Elder Maxson but rather by Elder Sarah Lyons, whom after the death of her father was able to bridge the gap with the Outcasts, and the West Coast Brotherhood, by promising the building of the Prydwen with funding for the project provided from the sale of Aqua Pura.

 

Maintaining her father’s idealism that the Brotherhood should use the technology it collects to protect citizens, Lyons is of the controversial opinion that the Institute needs to be destroyed in order to liberate the Commonwealth, even if that destroys all the advanced technology they have created.

 

A legendary warrior among the rank and file of the Brotherhood, Knight Maxson is second in command on the Prydwen, and differs on what should be done about the Institute. Having grown to become more ideologically in line with his West Coast parents, then his tutor Owyn Lyons. Maxson and many of the former Outcasts strongly believe that their first priority needs to be to acquisition of the technology the Institute has created, even if that means the people of the Commonwealth go on suffering.

 

A side note of the revised Brotherhood is that Madison Li’s role will be much the same as it is now, however her reason for leaving the Brotherhood will be Sarah Lyons’ decision to start selling the water she and James envisioned would be given out for free to everyone, which to her made the Brotherhood Of Steel no better than the Enclave.

 

 

Fixing the Main Storyline:

A PC only mod, as about 70% of the problems with FO4 seem to have been caused because of consoleatory mass appeal reasons. The revised version will have absolutely no voice acting for the protagonist and the dialog wheel will be summarily executed by digital firing squad.

 

Arguably, the biggest problem, and thus the biggest fix, with FO4 story wise was the pacing, determined to find their son, the main protagonist finds themselves spending quite a bit of time doing exactly not that! Thus the game will start, so to speak, with the player awaking from their cryo pod the 2nd time and be immediately greeted by a 10 year old Shawn, who tells the player that the world has changed drastically. Then giving the player a New Commonwealth Democracy citizenship card before teleporting out, as the player slowly faints, Shawn will tell the player the card is compensation for their spouse being killed and not to come find him for “The world is now a very dangerous place, and I am somewhere safe”.

 

Thus releasing the player from an urgency in finding their child, when they awake, this change will allow for a much more Shandified approach to the rest of the game. Perhaps the most profound implication of which is that there potentially will be no set main quest storyline per say.

 

Rather upon exiting the vault the ONLY lead-you-by-the-nose quest marker, per say, will be the location of the NCD capital city. The player can simply choose to go directly to the city, present their citizenship card, and be given a modest room along with a simple job befitting their SPECIAL skills. If they do nothing else, they player will stay in the city doing various fetch quests, until at some point they are drafted to defend the NCD from a brotherhood attack which will have a 50/50 chance to succeed and destroy both the NCD and the Institute if the player decides to do nothing more than be a simple foot soldier for the NCD, or deserts their NCD enlistment.

However, should the player go off the beaten path on their way to the NCD capital, proceeded in a different direction entirely, or even ask a taboo question in the NCD, the game's main storyline will change accordingly. For instance joining up with Danse and preventing his death at ArcJet, while he tries to contact the Brotherhood, will allow the player to easily join the Brotherhood, and eventually play a key role in choosing who is in charge of the Prydwen and its forces. Failure to do so will result in the player finding a dead Danse at Arcjet later in the game, and require the player to haul that dead body all the up to Boston airport in order to join the Brotherhood as part of the usual deadly hazing the Brotherhood gives wannabe recruits. Furthermore, joining the Brotherhood with Danse dead will keep the player out of the leadership loop and result in a 50/50 chance Maxson challenges Lyons for Prydwen leadership, the outcome of which will drastically change how the Brotherhood operates in the Commonwealth.

 

In similar fashion, saving Preston and the others in Concord will open a big door to join the Minutemen, as a captain, and likewise saving an about to be exposed Railroad agent in the NCD capital city will not only give the player an invite to join the railroad, but also the password to their secret hideout too. Should you fail to help either group in a timely manner, there will still be other opportunities to join them, but they will be harder to find and acquire. For instance failing to save the railroad agent, in time, will require the player to run the along the Liberty Trail to get the randomized password, and Joining the minutemen without saving Preston, who will die after so long without help, will start the player out as a lowly private, who has to prove themselves, rather than a captain.

 

And in true fallout New Vegas fashion, you can even make good with some of the raider organizations which will allow you to travel to Nuka World without having to run the gauntlet to get in, just to name a few possibilities for how the game will change and conform itself in order to create a unique narrative based both on how the player starts the game, and then chooses to play, and even not play, the game.

 

Another key aspect of which, will be to rework the settlement system, so that it can be completely ignored, if so desired, but provide various perks if utilized. Notably, all but the lowest levels of difficulty will disable normal fast travel, and require travel outposts to be constructed at settlement locations in order to fast travel between settlements. Settlement assets will also be optimized to allow them to be saved and then reloaded on subsequent playthroughs as desired, with no settlement budget cap. Furthermore, expanding upon a decent Nuka World settlement concept, when acquiring a settlement location the player will have the option to make it an outpost for any of the factions they might be allied with. Faction specific settlers will then, start to come to that settlement and automatically start building faction specific structures. Once the settlement has matured, the faction whom it belongs to will have more power and influence, which will affect how the game plays out. Alternatively, the player can use the default settlement mode to attract generic settlers and put them to work making various assets.

 

One last storyline rework worth noting is that NPC interactions will also be fundamentally different, as part of a more dynamic approach to said storyline. Take Kellogg for example; with the Shawn charade no longer part of the main storyline, Kellogg will instead be explained as having since retired from working for the Institute. As his job was replaced, per say, with gen 3 Synth Coursers, by the time the player exits the vault. The player can of course track down Kellogg and simply kill him to get revenge. However, they will also be able to try and convince him to be an ally and even a companion if they have the skills to sufficiently impress/persuade him. And though players will of course get Kellogg’s unique weapon if they kill him, sparing his life will be the only way the player has to realize a lot more than 10 years have passed since the 1st time they were unfrozen, thus opening up new storyline quest options.

 

Furthermore, with the exception of a few Yes Man type Synths, every named NPC will be both killable and start game enabled, which means that certain things, such as finding the randomized location of a utility key, and then its matching door in a randomized sewer system, will allow the player to sneak into the institute, via the abandoned section, and potentially kill everyone, including father, if they brought enough firepower. Thus preempting the game and allowing for a radical power shift regardless of any other quests already in progress. This ability to preempt the game will also apply to sabotaging the Prydwen’s anti-gravity generator, casing a toxic gas leak in the Railroad underground headquarters, and nuking the last remaining Minuteman armory.

 

 

Fixing the Lack of Depth:

A major component of Fallout 4’s lack of immersion is that there really is no intellectual nor situational depth to anything. Notably having had a hate/love relationship with the Shoot 'Em In the Head, Tenpenny Tower, Andale, The Family, and other such Quest lines in Fallout 3. In Fallout 4 I expected to find more of those lose-lose and dealing with expert liars type situations, that weren’t afraid to take advantage of your naivety, and dare I say “offend” every sensibility you might have twice over! Sure many of these situations were frustrating, if you wanted to be an idealist, and/or left one gawking at the outcomes, but they served to add an essential layer of depth to the game that drove home the point you were really living in a post apocalypse world where everything is screwed up royally, and then some.

 

Fallout 4 on the other hand, seems to have had a definite risk-aversion brush painted over all the possible NPC interactions, and reeks of being politically correctified through and through. Perhaps the biggest failure of which is that you can never really explore what the concept of humanity means and if Synths count as being part of said humanity. Which I must admit is what I was most looking forward to when Bethesda announced they were finally going to let us into the famed Institute, which was such a big part of the Fallout universe that escaped Synths, and Synth hunters, end up in Rivet City.

Suffice to say I was really let down HARD, when I couldn’t even ask Institute scientists exactly why and how the various synth generations came to be, nor even how they defined mankind :sad:

 

Therefore a primary objective of a reworked Fallout 4 will be to remove much of the politically correct character interactions and situations, especially if said political correctness is interfering with the game being correct. For instance, given the rather high mortality rate among settlers living in a world with Yao guai, Deathclaws, and other such dangers. The rights of women to pursue their own ambitions vs. the need for them to have and care for large numbers of children, in order to prevent our species downfall, would be a prevalent theme present in a reworked FO4.

 

Furthermore, with the exception of a few in the Red Light districts of the Commonwealth, characters will either be firmly heterosexual, homosexual, etc… and stay that way regardless of what gender choice the player chooses.

 

Likewise several characters will also be firmly religious, and think more or less of you depending on if you share their religion and/or believe in a different religion. Next, making its triumphant return will be ghoul bigotry, including a few ghouls who want to live in one of the fancy NCD settlements. Though mostly using the tone set in FO3, a few cues will be taken from Witcher 3 to really set up the same species/intraspecies racial conflict.

 

Now that’s not to say every character you run across is going to be a foul mouth bigoted sexist; annoyingly nice characters, like Moira Brown, will still be findable throughout the world, as well as quite a few good meaning and tolerant folks who won’t bother you if you don’t bother them.

 

As for the Synth question itself, each of the 4 major factions, along with a few other groups will each have a different view on what exactly they think artificial humans, so realistic they bleed, mean for the world and themselves. Taking cues from Blade Runner, Snatcher, I Robot, and of course Terminator, the various views about Synths will conflict with each other, and the view the player adopts about them will be pivotal to how the game plays out.

 

In order to make the Commonwealth itself have more depth, various themes from Boston’s history will be incorporated into various factions, notably those from the Revolutionary and Civil war. A major aspect of which will be to add more Button Gwinnett, type characters and quests, even going so far as to have things like a whole continental congress assembled at Old North Church, stuck in a 200 year old voting stalemate because the Franklin Bot is missing.

 

Though not a definitive list, as of yet, other themes to incorporate would be:

• With the Institute directed NCD now being an above ground military power in the south, its conflict with the Minutemen in the North will rhyme with the Civil war. Notably, started because of Southern aggression at Fort Independence (not mirelurks), the conflict will primarily be about issues other than Synth slavery, but have opportunity for the player to pull a Gettysburg, and bring the railroad into the conflict more openly by promising Synth emancipation.

• As the Synth underground railroad is already themed after the pre-Civil War slave Underground Railroad. The nuances of Slavery and the slave trade will be expounded upon, including Synths who enslave other Synths (notably Coursers), and even a Synth clever enough to remove its control chip and then inserts it into its master, thus making the master a slave instead.

• Likewise the Minutemen will be expanded upon to include the family tensions that went into believing in a cause so much one was willing to put everything on the line and possibly die for it, at a minutes notice.

• Gunners would mirror revolutionary Hessians, and the player, if working for the Minutemen, can convince them to defect from their NCD contract and join them instead.

• The raiders at Nuka World would take on a facsimile to Barbary Pirates, and the player could subsequently form alliances with various Commonwealth factions in order to more effectively play the Open Season quest.

• Having been around for 200 years various Ghoul settlements will emulate Native American tribes ravaged by time. The player can either scheme to swindle them out of their much larger than average stashes of caps, or make friends with them and learn various secrets about the Commonwealth and surrounding lands, only they know.

• Based on colonial reactions to the Intolerable acts, the residence of Diamond City and Bunker Hill will be quite upset about the taxes/tariffs on their favorite things. Thus with the right motivational speech these citizens will channel their ancestor’s sense of independence and dump Nuka Cola into the Harbor. Which if the player manages to supply the event with a sufficient amount of Nuka Cola Quantum, will lead to a very interesting surprise!

 

 

Making it happen:

Completely reworking the main storyline of a game as large as Fallout 4 is a very daunting task to say the least, however it is by no means impossible, and will actually be a smaller order of business than other conversion mods for Bethesda games, including other Fallout total conversion mods. In fact special thanks to Zaric Zhakaron for showing off the work me and Eskarn have been doing to make Fallout 4 gameplay much more immersive!

 

Furthermore, by constructing my reworked narrative to rhyme with the vanilla game, and use themes for which there are already available assets that can be utilized, including other mods, the process for creating this reworked narrative will be significantly streamlined.

 

Not to mention that by eliminating the voiced protagonist, the amount of voice acting needed to rework the game is significantly reduced.

 

At any rate it’s something I will be attempting to accomplish, so if my proposal here to make Fallout 4 truly Good is something you agree with, and you want to help make it happen, however you can, please put a “#LetsMakeFallout4Good” in your comments, along with any other feedback you might have.

 

 

Update: You can play the Demo HERE!

[Deleted2433418User]

After reading this i thought.."wow.. this guy thinks along the same lines i do"... I am a lover of RPG´s and that element is sorely lacking in FO4..the ratio of farmers to raiders is absurd and the whole concept of the Institute,the BoS,in fact all the Factions so seriously bungled that one would think it was written on a napkin late at night.. there is no depth in any of the Factions,the Gunners are Raiders and the Triggermen are a joke..Your concept,however,rhymes better with what i envision..Choices,good or bad should be essential and not set-piece.. a karma system would be something worth considering and some way of keeping track of standing with various Factions..I am a complete dunce regarding programming but i do write,to some degree,mostly short stories and the like,i do,however have a solid grasp of small-unit tactics and behavioral traits in isolated settlements and interactions with Non-Industrialized societies, maybe some of that could be useful to you? if you can use any assistance i can offer please do not hesitate to ask

#LetsMakeFallout4Good

[WolfmanMODS]

@isalex

Thanks, and you are the first I've added to my "list" of potential volunteers which we just might actually help me get this this 3/4 baked idea off the ground. Of which, as noted, we plan to make the Gunners much more intelligent and neither me nor Eskarn are very familiar with proper small squad tactics. If nothing else we will end up needing several more NPC character voices that know a specific thing or two.

 

Do keep in mind that it might be a year or so before I can really even begin get started on such an ambitious mod as I'm currently making and help implementing Fallout 4 Redefined, which will be the core overhaul that a good Fallout 4 would be built off of. The relevant links for which are the following two videos.

-Full 2+ Hour Live Stream of Full Gameplay Overhaul Demo

 

 

However, as the consensus on what a "Good" Fallout 4 should be, seems to becoming more and more defined, with not only yourself but others, such as Mavrickhunter2's Project Phoenix: Fallout 4 Reborn forum post echoing the same core ideas. There is the possibility that enough of us might come to share enough of the same vision that I can add to my posting to reflect it all, and then someone else can coordinate the effort while I stick to my strengths of programming and writing as just a part of the development team; which would get the effort going a lot faster.

[Gruffydd]

Personally I hated the karma system. It was so frustratingly arbitrary.

You've just massacred your way through your foes, leaving none alive. Good for you. Whoops! You picked something up while there. Stealing! Bad karma for you!

Or the most ridiculous example... spending hours negotiating to get some ghouls accepted in a nice settlement, generating lots of good karma... resulting in a total massacre of the original residents. How the hell was that good karma?

I like the idea of faction-specific reputations, and those reputations affecting your interactions with various factions, but an overall generic FO3/NV karma system? No thanks.

[MightyZ0G]

Personally I hated the karma system. It was so frustratingly arbitrary.

You've just massacred your way through your foes, leaving none alive. Good for you. Whoops! You picked something up while there. Stealing! Bad karma for you!

Or the most ridiculous example... spending hours negotiating to get some ghouls accepted in a nice settlement, generating lots of good karma... resulting in a total massacre of the original residents. How the hell was that good karma?

I like the idea of faction-specific reputations, and those reputations affecting your interactions with various factions, but an overall generic FO3/NV karma system? No thanks.

I'm with you on the karma thing.

have you ever played Boiling Point: Road to Hell? that had a fantastic faction reputation system.

[WolfmanMODS]

Personally I hated the karma system. It was so frustratingly arbitrary.

You've just massacred your way through your foes, leaving none alive. Good for you. Whoops! You picked something up while there. Stealing! Bad karma for you!

Or the most ridiculous example... spending hours negotiating to get some ghouls accepted in a nice settlement, generating lots of good karma... resulting in a total massacre of the original residents. How the hell was that good karma?

I like the idea of faction-specific reputations, and those reputations affecting your interactions with various factions, but an overall generic FO3/NV karma system? No thanks.

 

Okay as it seem to be a popular idea, and also given that morality is relative to cultural standards of various factions, we have decided to use faction specific Karma/Standing system which will have specific factions either helping you or hunting you depending on how you stand with them after you become non neutral to them.

 

I will update the ramble to reflect that when I get a chance.

[tomomi1922]

 

Personally I hated the karma system. It was so frustratingly arbitrary.

You've just massacred your way through your foes, leaving none alive. Good for you. Whoops! You picked something up while there. Stealing! Bad karma for you!

Or the most ridiculous example... spending hours negotiating to get some ghouls accepted in a nice settlement, generating lots of good karma... resulting in a total massacre of the original residents. How the hell was that good karma?

I like the idea of faction-specific reputations, and those reputations affecting your interactions with various factions, but an overall generic FO3/NV karma system? No thanks.

 

Okay as it seem to be a popular idea, and also given that morality is relative to cultural standards of various factions, we have decided to use faction specific Karma/Standing system which will have specific factions either helping you or hunting you depending on how you stand with them after you become non neutral to them.

 

I will update the ramble to reflect that when I get a chance.

 

My personal experience is ... not to have a rigid karma system. This is a game, with today's technology, we can never be good enough to develop a deep enough karma system that actually makes sense to the role playing atmosphere. Mass Effect 2 has a very tight karma system that unless you know exactly which dialogue lines to choose, you will never earn enough points on either side (I forgot what they are called, but one is blue, one is red, neither is good nor evil) but you have to be extreme on either side to get things done, to save someone's lives, to resolve necessary conflicts. Which means .... to get the best out of that game, I literately played with a karma guide right next to me, governing each and every step I do. Is that role playing? Or is that just following a script?

 

Imo, people's thoughts and beliefs are very deep. If you divide the game into good guy/bad guy dialogues that are very obviously black and white, then it goes against everything you do here. You can never guess what players want. But look at it this way, game is make-believe. Everything is created to immerse us in a universe. And what the game cannot provide, players have to fill in the gap with their own imagination. After all it is a single player game: everything is to cater to the experience of 1 person. So what we can do, as designers, is to open up more possibilities without restricting people.

 

Back to karma system, if we progress this far into the game (to the point we want to download mods to alter storyline), more or less we feel very serious about the story, not like some kids who play video games and just want to shoot things. It means we are naturally committed out imagination to do the work. The game does not have to GUESS the players' motives. Their motives are in their hearts. How much do you like the Minuteman (or Institute, or BOS), or you are just using them? Only YOU know. Do you genuinely care for them or just trying to play nice so you can earn their trust and get more control over them? The game doesn't have to force me to decide that. Certainly players can't go massacre a settlement and come back to the same settlement expecting indifference. But, how about letting us massacre every single person and blame it onto someone else? I mean naturally nobody was left standing to tell the tale.

 

Certainly, a point system to gain rank (say, within BOS rank) is fair. We must do enough missions, make enough contribution .... to be promoted to next rank, get access to better gear, and stuff.

Edited May 21, 2017 by tomomi1922

[Deleted2433418User]

I agree with the 2Faction Standings" idea.. Morality as a general idea is a B**** like Truth and beauty it´s all in the eyes of the beholder.. that being said there are some general guidelines in all major(peacful) Religions that seems to agree that Wanton murder is bad,though it can be argued that wholesale murder of any and all your enemies is good.. as i stated it´s a B****..

 

On another note... Orders. to somehow implement a command system,like ME where your Companions(if any) could actually be useful in a fight would bring a new perspective to combat,likewise use of terrain,cover and thus the ability to ambush unsuspecting enemies would be high on my wishlist, as it is now even the socalled military organisation the "Gunners" are just rushing at you ,and that my dearies,is NOT tactically sound or even sane,the ability to have say, a "Gods Hand" keeping an overview,support from a Heavy and thus the ability for cohesive maneuvering and exploitation of the battlefield would be great

[5OclockShadow]

For the last week or so I've been writing in a Word document a list of improvements similar to MaverickHunter2's and then some, and a different game similar to your list above, Mechtechnal. I even went ahead and bought a second copy of F4 + DLC for my computer (I played it on Xbox One) because I was finally inspired enough to actually learn how to mod and make this happen. So I'm very interested to see this project move forward, #LetsMakeFallout4Good. Here are some of my other ideas that maybe you'll like or not.

 

The world space in F4 is divided in bizarre ways. Almost everywhere you go, Super Mutants occupy a spot next to Gunners who occupy a spot next to Institute Synths who occupy a spot next to raiders. Instead, the world space should be divided up into territories, with each faction controlling a territory and seeking to expand said territory. This means expanding the raiders into actual different raider clans (as hinted at in computer entries in the vanilla game and done to a limited extent with the Forged and then the 3 gangs from Nuka World), possibly breaking up the Super Mutants into 2 or 3 tribes, and then having them occupy their respective territories, with them having fortifications and patrols. And instead of a shoot on site, you have faction relation with each, determining through your actions if you are friend, foe or neutral with the respective faction, and thus can pass through freely or for a toll fee. Besides allowing the Player Character to conquered these territories, it would be nice if when a territory is cleared but not claimed, that upon returning the territory doesn't reset and repopulate but instead is now occupied by a neighboring competing faction...or yes, retaken by the faction you cleared if that faction is still present nearby. This would make the world feel more dynamic and alive. I also think it could be done that certain locations just flip based on player action and random probability.

 

Speaking of occupying, the settlement system could be expanded on in that should the player decide to go that route, they can create settlements (I'd incorporate the Sim Settlement mod by the way) but they can also make outposts to provide local protection (and generate caps due to tolls), and they can take over key or strategic locations and get bonuses for it, such as occupying Corvega and getting it back up and running to gain a bonus, or a reward or both. Say, getting the Weston Water Treatment plant allows for running water in the townships again (I'd move all settlements back to the townships, so Concord, Lexington, Malden would be settlements, and nearby farms can be under local protection), and modifying the plant can make the water rad free. I'd add other production sites, such as a papermill, so that toilet paper can be made again (now there's an item that should cost something in the post-apocalypse), while other sites could be used or converted to other uses. In the lore, many manufacturing sites were either making war armaments on the side or were fully converted, so again with Corvega, you may not have a need to build cars with the site, but you could use it to build power armor and equip your local militia with them. Or make Lukowski's cannery into an ammo manufacturing facility and bring your ammunition costs down along with outfitting your people with better weapons, ammo, etc.

 

In doing this, a form of Tower Defense should be implemented that kicks in randomly if you are present at the site in question that another faction might want.

 

Story wise, I'd add something more of the Enclave in order to clean up the lore discrepancies with Power armor in Fallout 4 that Bethesda committed for the sake of gameplay and player level progression. Either have them as a faction or have locations of obvious former presence in the area or have them being taken into the fold of the Institute. I'd also have it that Vault 81 had a GECK and they purified Chestnut Hillock Reservoir and founded Diamond City or merged with them. This gives a reason for the Institute wanting to control them, as they not only have the main clean water in the area, but it's the water that backs the cap system (similar to Fallout 2). Course, events in Nuka World could screw the cap system economy up if they Nuka Cola plant gets back up and running (similar to a Fallout 3 side quest). Might want to scrap the cap system all together, or have it run parallel to the Institutes currency system...maybe make caps illegal in Institute territory but are used outside of it or in black market areas.

 

And seeing a few posts already saying post-modern pabulum of the day such as "all morals/values are subjective", I'll avoid the philosophical discussion here but I will say this about a karma system: faction relation should be implemented, and should be based on if you are helping them with their goals or if you are an obstacle. How they deal with you needs to be consistent with their particular faction values, or in the case of the BoS, the values of the leadership in charge of the faction. As to personal player karma, I think something close to life should be implemented. Namely, doing bad things should not be penalized by bad karma, but rather causes corrupting influences by rewarding the player with more power, influence, and respect born out of fear. The negative of doing evil will be basic outcomes from your actions that make sense, not random magic punishing you. Criminals usually only pay for their crimes and sins because of their stupidity. Smart bad guys rarely pay for it in this life. Playing a good guy should give little reward, with the reward being the respect and appreciation of some of your settlers, but mostly the reward is player generated...they feel better about their choices. As for the end game outcomes, those should be mostly based on your actions, rather than karma level. The karma system, as is, is too simplistic, too binary, and lacks context.

 

An aside, but related issue to karma, I think probability or randomness/luck needs to be implemented into events. Yes your choices affect outcomes, but the random factor always needs to be there. Tragic, neutral or happy events should always have some luck or lack of involved in their generation or not. Otherwise the gameworld feels more like a gamebook instead of an RPG.

 

Yes, get rid of the PCism. It ruins the ability to explore ideas because of teh feelz. Fallout 4's world is a little too obvious with appeals to SJWs. If a post apocalypse society is to survive, won't issues of contraception, feminism, and homosexuality be contentious issues? Would a town respect any of those modern positions when it could easily lead to extinction? And in an America culturally trapped in the 1950's, how is there no Christian denomination(s) around but there is the silly Children of Atom? I think it would be interesting to have 3 ghoul Irish Catholic priests, perhaps with different perspectives on their faith, and interacting with them. Shying away from this stuff makes the game world seem hollow and prevents exploration of some interesting ideas. Resist it and explore!

 

Bring back human slavery. Rather than delete it in order to keep the issue around 3rd gen synths easy to deal with, have human slavery be an issue too. Nuka World had some of it but there should be a location that is a slave bizarre amongst Raiders. Plenty of factions would have reason to want slaves, be they human or 3rd gen synth. And a coliseum, Mad Max style, how did Bethesda leave that out?

 

I also think it would be better to change the Automatron plot so that the Robobrains have a coup against Isabel, and they take over, seeking to assimilate the Commonwealth into being like them out of spite.

[RogueMatriarch]

Greetings from Project Phoenix! I had been poking around your mod earlier today, curious as to how you made bullet casings intractable after they had beene ejected from the gun and how ammo selection worked exactly. Seeing how the first phase of Project Phoenix focus on ammunition in general, it would be a great boon if you or one of the other members of Fallout 4 Redefined could tell me how either was achieved via response here or in a personal message. I will happily return the favor should Project Phoenix feature something you would also like to incorporate into Fallout 4 Redefined as mutual cooperation among fellow modders. Hope to hear from you guys soon, and keep up the great work!