Strange Crash to Desktop When Loading or Changing Areas

[yaptinchay]

Hi guys, I have this problem that maybe you can shed insight into.

 

I've been playing the game without many hitches for over a month, but lately I've been getting strange crashes to desktop.

 

This happens frequently while loading a game or moving between areas via a loading screen (e.g. into and out of an Oblivion Gate). Now I call the crash "strange" because the manner in which it crashes is not what I'm accustomed to. Typically, when Oblivion crashes, I get that little box from Windows telling me that an error has occurred, blah, blah blah. On the other hand, these new crashes that I have been experiencing have zero error messages whatsoever and it just ejects me straight to Windows desktop.

 

Anyway, here is my load order, I'm sure there could be improvements (suggestions would be taken to heart), but up until recently, it had been working fairly solid. I'm using the latest version of OBSE and have the latest patch for Shivering Isles.

 

[codebox]Active Mod Files:
00  Oblivion.esm
01  AWS-Core.esm
02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
04  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.33]
05  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.5.5b4]
06  TamrielTravellers.esm  [Version 1.36]
07  Cybiades.esm  [Version 2.0]
08  HorseCombatMaster.esm
09  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.8]
0A  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm
0B  bookplacing.esm
0C  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
0D  KT_CustomRaceFix.esp
0E  HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp
**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp
**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp
0F  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
10  DLCShiveringIsles.esp
11  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch MOBS.esp
12  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]
13  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
14  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
15  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
16  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
17  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
18  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
19  Fran Armor Add-on.esp
1A  Rainbows.esp
1B  Improved Water.esp
1C  Tamriel VWD v0.5.esp
1D  AWS-ShiveringIsles.esp
1E  MIS.esp
1F  MIS New Sounds Optional Part.esp
20  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp
21  oc_darker_nights.esp
22  Cities Alive At Night.esp
23  _Real_Lights.esp
24  IWR - Windows Lights Shutters - Optimised.esp
25  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 CT.esp
26  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 CT.esp
27  Guild Map Markers.esp
28  Landmarks, w Wells.esp  [Version 1.10]
29  aaaBorsBedrolls.esp
2A  SummonChest_v2.1.esp
2B  Slof's Horses Essential.esp
2C  Slof's Extra Horses.esp
2D  Crowded Roads.esp  [Version 2.0]
2E  StockClothingArmor-forExnems.esp
2F  StockClothingArmor-forExnems - OOO Patch.esp
30  Fransfemale.esp
31  DLCHorseArmor.esp
32  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
33  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.08]
34  DLCOrrery.esp
35  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
36  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.06]
37  DLCFrostcrag.esp
38  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
39  SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp  [Version 1.03]
3A  DLCThievesDen.esp
3B  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]
3C  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
3D  SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp  [Version 1.08]
3E  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
3F  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
40  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.06]
41  DLCVileLair.esp
42  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
43  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.08]
44  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
45  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.2]
46  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.08]
47  DLCSpellTomes.esp
48  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]
49  ExnemRuneskulls.esp
4A  FCOM_ExnemRuneskulls.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
4B  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp
4C  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
4D  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
4E  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
4F  Loth's Blunt Weapons- Mobs.esp
50  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
51  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
52  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
53  Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp
54  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.33]
55  OOO-Ayleid Coin Add-on.esp
56  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]
57  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
58  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
59  FCOM_MoreWildernessLife.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
5A  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
5B  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.5.5b3]
++  Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Increased.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
5C  Mart's Monster Mod - Vindasel.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
5D  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
5E  Mart's Monster Mod - Foxes.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
5F  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
60  TamrielTravellers4000.esp  [Version 1.36]
61  TamrielTravellersItemsNPC.esp  [Version 1.36]
62  FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
63  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
64  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
65  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
66  The Lost Spires.esp
67  Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp
68  JQ-Fighters_Guild_United.esp
69  FCOM_FighterGUnited.esp
6A  T.I.E4MODS.esp  [Version 0.32]
6B  T.I.E4MODSOOO+FCOM.esp  [Version 0.1]
6C  Knights.esp
6D  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]
6E  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]
6F  Castle Ravenpride.esp  [Version 1.01]
70  GTAesgaard.esp
71  HoarfrostCastle.esp
72  Artefacts of the Ancestors.esp
73  Cybiades.esp  [Version 2.1]
74  CybiadesDungeon.esp  [Version 2.1]
75  Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp  [Version 3.5.5b4]
76  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
77  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
78  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
79  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.79b]
7A  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.79]
7B  SM_AbsorbRestoration.esp  [Version 0.70]
7C  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.70]
7D  SM_MMMCompatability.esp  [Version 0.79]
7E  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.75]
7F  SM_EnableRestoreEnchanting.esp  [Version 0.76]
80  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.51EV]
81  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.5EV]
82  bgMagicItemSigil.esp  [Version 1.50EV]
83  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.5EV]
84  bgMagicBonus.esp  [Version 1.5EV]
85  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.5EV]
86  AWS-Storms & Sound SI.esp
87  Symphony of Violence.esp
88  AmbientTownSounds.esp
89  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.0.1]
8A  Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp  [Version 2.1.0]
8B  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp  [Version 2.1.0]
8C  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp  [Version 2.1.0]
8D  tweaked_smarter_mercantile.esp
8E  Progress.esp  [Version 1.03]
8F  nGCD.esp
90  nGCD Birthsigns.esp
91  nGCD Oghma Infinium.esp
92  Arena_BattlesV1.1.esp
93  RealisticForceMedium.esp
94  RealisticMagicForceMedium.esp
95  DLCHorseArmor_SlofEssential.esp
96  talkwithyourhands2.esp
97  Atmospheric Oblivion - AWS Patch.esp
98  Atmospheric Oblivion - Real Lights patch.esp
99  Atmospheric Oblivion - OOO Patch.esp
9A  Atmospheric Oblivion - MMM Patch.esp
9B  MIS New Sounds Optional Part - Real Lights Patch.esp
9C  Knights - AWS Patch.esp
9D  xulAncientYews.esp
9E  xulArriusCreek.esp
9F  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp
A0  xulLushWoodlands.esp
A1  xulChorrolHinterland.esp
A2  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp
A3  xulImperialIsle.esp
A4  xuldarkforest.esp
A5  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp
A6  xulAncientRedwoods.esp
A7  xulTheHeath.esp
A8  xulRollingHills_EV.esp
A9  AnvilBayExpansion.esp
AA  anvil bay+ul tweak.esp
AB  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp
AC  XulEntiusGorge.esp
AD  ULFallenLeafEverglade.esp
AE  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp
AF  xulStendarrValley.esp
B0  Ravenpride-Stendarr patch.esp
B1  xulRiverEthe.esp
B2  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
B3  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp
B4  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp
B5  FCOM MWL-RollingHills patch.esp
B6  FCOM MWL-TheHeath patch.esp
B7  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp
B8  FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp  [Version 0.9.8]
B9  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]
BA  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
BB  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
BC  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]
BD  Living Economy.esp
BE  Elves Of Lineage II.esp
BF  BlackLuster.esp
C0  Streamline 3.1.esp
C1  CybBPcompatibility.esp
C2  Bashed Patch, 0.esp
C3  Deadly Reflex - Timed Block + Higher Damage.esp
C4  Mounted_Spellcasting Deadly Reflex Compatible.esp
C5  DeadlyReflex - Combat Moves.esp
[/codebox]

 

Once again guys, I'd be really appreciative if you could help my troubleshoot the problem; Thank you soo much! :thanks:

[nosisab]

There are some things you can try, and I must say you have a very impressive collection of mods prone to cause troubles even separated... together.

 

The first try is keeping bashed patch as the last one, and never forget to rebuild it ever you change the mod list, even if just reordering it.

 

I can't absolutely affirm the following as granted to be the cause, but Kvatch rebuilt gave me a similar problem, yet more serious, once I entered an oblivion portal nearby while doing the quest of getting help from the Skingrad count.

The bug started the moment i took the sigil stone and was pushed to desktop in the load screen.

after this reloading the last save before taking it was not answer as the problem repeated over and over aways a took the stone. To worsen, even getting out oblivion (world, not the game) using Midas recall or just COC in console was not a solution, as the game proceeded as normal until I entered the area surrounding Skingrad, so I were expeled to desktop yet in the load screen or just stepping in the cell by walking, aways without any warning. Searching about KR I saw I weren't the only one with crash issues with it, KR is a great mod, complex and marvelous but is yet fresh coming from beta and until have some things the makers are working hard to correct and they will do as they are very capable modders, but until so KR is one of the suspects (Yet worse, just removing KR do not resolved the issue in this case of mine, the saves I had were all after entering the gate and not only one try to clean then would permit I approach Skingrad anymore).

 

The mods I know about in your list seems to be in the correct order and work without troubles to me. Although we both use a very extended list of mods. except for the overhauls both lists are very different, some of those mods I don't ever know (to change leveling and characteristics and such I use only KAS-AF and intelligence overhaul, deadly reflex too, but you have it in the same order I use to) As the magical changing ones I use only Midas.

 

Since in your list things seems correct in the order they must appear (except for the bashed patch) so the way to resolve is the tedious one of deactivating one by one, rebuilding bash, test, repeat (I really hope someone knows a better way).

[yaptinchay]

Thanks for the post! About my mod list, yes, it is quite impressive in its sheer number of mods :P . I was a big fan of the vanilla game when it first came out; beat the snot out of it during my freshman quarter (don't ask me about my grades that quarter, hahaha!). I decided to delve into the modding just recently because the sheer amount of added content could potentially allow someone to play the game indefinitely. The only trouble being the tremendous task of taking care of incompatibilities manifests itself as a game of its own (in a twisted sense)!

 

Anyway, I was worried that I it would resort to that solution, but I suppose I'll set aside an hour or two now and then, time permitting, to troubleshoot the game.

 

I will try moving the bashedpatch to the end and try tinkering with KR before undertaking the gigantic task of checking each one.

 

I'll update this post if I make progress or if anything changes.

[nosisab]

I dearly wish good luck to you :)

[Sativarg]

Hi yaptinchay

I see you are using Wrye Bash. Now, you probably already know this but I'll type it any way.

First, you can save your load order to a Load List.

Second, the newest version of Bash(172 [4/27/2008]) has the Full Balo implementation of the Bash Auto Load Ordering (aka Balo)

 

I thought that Balo was going to be a huge problem to use and that it was going to be too complicated but once I tried it I was pleasantly surprise at how simple it was. And now its even better because Wrye has made a list of many mods and the groups they should go into. The list is a CSV file that allows Balo to automatically group and thus order many of your mods. The rest can be assigned to a group simply by right clicking the ESP/M and choosing the appropriate group.

 

Once I got my few ESPs (8c=140) in correct order and I did all the Mark Mergeables, Mark Levelers and built the Bashed patch my CTDs disappeared. I used to get a crash when I would try to load a save that was not in the cell I was in and I always crashed when exiting the game. Not any more.

 

172 [4/27/2008]

 

• Ensure that autogrouping is applied when full balo is activated.

 

 

171 [4/27/2008]

 

• Autogrouping will now report on what mods it has grouped.

 

 

170 [4/27/2008]

 

• Fix a startup bug for new users.

 

 

169 [4/27/2008]

 

• Extreme Refactoring: Push more stuff into balt.py.

 

• Extreme Refactoring: Fix a bug with saving setting files.

 

• Balo: Automatic grouping.

 

 

168 [4/26/2008]

 

• Extreme Refactoring: Fix some more bugs.

 

• Extreme Refactoring: Some more refactoring.

 

• Full Balo

 

• Discard old Balo Groups command.

[yaptinchay]

Hi Sativarg,

 

I think I'm going to try the method you recommended.

 

Before I start, when you say "save your load order to a Load List" do you mean that I'll be able to restore my load order if I make any wholesale changes such as this Balo method? Additionally, if I select all my mods to be marked mergeable, should I check them all under the "Merge Patches" section when rebuilding the Bashed Patch?

Thanks so much for your input, I hope this will help fix some of my issues!

 

As I did with nosisab, I'll add to your kudos as well; much appreciated :thanks:

 

EDIT: Oh by the way, this CSV file you are referring to, do I have to download this separately?

[Sativarg]

Before I start, when you say "save your load order to a Load List" do you mean that I'll be able to restore my load order if I make any wholesale changes such as this Balo method?

Yes in the Bash Mod tab RightClick on the collum header

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7549/saveloadlistxv4.th.jpg

EDIT very sorry this feature will not save load order. Best to copy all ESP/Ms to a temp folder to preserve dates. AND remember to uncheck LOCK TIMES in bash if you are using this before you restore a load order by copying you ESP/Ms back into the data folder. If there is a better way to save load orders some one please let me know.

NOTE: you can have several load orders in subfolders named like {L-order_Date_time} in your data folder.

 

Additionally, if I select all my mods to be marked mergeable, should I check them all under the "Merge Patches" section when rebuilding the Bashed Patch?

Short answer no

Because Bash can at times mark a mod that has associated data or BSA files that require an esp to be loaded.

EDIT: Oh by the way, this CSV file you are referring to, do I have to download this separately?

No but you may want to have a look at it. When you install the latest version of Wrye Bash the file should be found in the folder {C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Data\Bash Patches} and it should be named Bash_Groups.csv.

 

For more info about FCOM see this thread Overhaul install order, Install overhauls before or after other mods?

 

I am no expert on this FCOM and I'm still learning about Wrye Bashs' Balo so please be careful to back up your load order and you could even COPY all the ESP/Ms to a temp directory just to be safe. That way if some how you lost the load order that you had all you need do is copy them back to the Oblivion/Data folder.

 

UPDATE: this from a more knowledgeable member:dyfed_99

 

You're always very welcome, Sativarg! I know the Balo loading order and I don't use it though because Wrye himself don't really recommend it unless you don't correct it manually. This because in the same group you could have any mods conflicting one each other! But yes, I've forgotten to say that conclusively I'm using the Wrye Bash groups along with FCOM helper load order trying to tune them. I admit the only FCOM helper order isn't too reliable. You have to modify it in some cases, but it's all at your own discretion.. Though it's good as a general guideline!

Btw I'm using TES4edit too, trying to resolve possible conflicts (just minor issues, not big such the landscapes/pathgrids conflicts between Ancient Yews and Arrius Creek for example), although sometimes I do some errors. Good is that I've saved the original plugins.. ;)

 

@dastaten: BALO or Bash Auto Loading Order it's a feature of Wrye Bash. It's intended to help any user to auto order his mods. But I prefer to do this manually using OBMM, but following the general guidelines provided by FCOM helper and Wrye hisself.

At last whatever loading order guidleline you're using you have to tune it yourself manually! Good luck!