Trying to justify joining the Stormcloaks as Dunmer

[SFBryan18]

You could simply say...

 

"I'm headed to Windhelm to join up with the Stormcloaks. Ulfric has the right of it."

 

Just like the Dark Elf farmer you see on the road.

 

Anyways, I've seen some good answers already. Everyone has their own personal beliefs, and I don't think their is a right or wrong reason in a matter of opinion. If I was a dark elf, I might buy into the rumor that Ulfric is racist, but that would be a prejudice assumption because once I ask him to join, he'd treat me no differently than if I was a Nord. Perhaps due to the limits of the game, or perhaps because they wanted you to find out that he isn't really that bad after all. Such a great game, because they intentionally left it up to you.

[JanusForbeare]

So how do the Dunmer feel about High Elves in general?

 

The Dunmer culture grew out of the Chimer culture, which was based on the rejection of Aldmeri ideals and philosophy. Since the Altmer revere the legacy of the Aldmer, and even strive to resemble them physically (see here for details), it's fair to say that, to the Dunmer, they serve as a constant reminder of a past they'd rather forget. The inverse is also true, of course.

 

Leaving the lore aside for a moment, it's clear that Bethesda always intended the two races to be antagonistic rivals. From skin colour to geographic position, everything about the Dunmer is designed to be the polar opposite of its Altmeri counterpart. The concept of Elf/Dark Elf duality is a fantasy staple, and though Bethesda hasn't exaggerated the differences as much as, say, the makers of the Forgotten Realms series, the friction is still very much there.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Leaving the lore aside for a moment, it's clear that Bethesda always intended the two races to be antagonistic rivals. From skin colour to geographic position, everything about the Dunmer is designed to be the polar opposite of its Altmeri counterpart. The concept of Elf/Dark Elf duality is a fantasy staple, and though Bethesda hasn't exaggerated the differences as much as, say, the makers of the Forgotten Realms series, the friction is still very much there.

Whats interesting to note about the elf/dark elf relationship in Elder scrolls is that it is reversed from typical fantasy settings.

 

In normal fantasy settings, such as D&D, the Dark Elves, or Drow, are a race of brutal, blood thirsty, seekers of world-domination, while the normal Elves are far more kind and one with the earth.

 

In Elder Scrolls it is the high elves who seek to destroy the world, and purge mankind from existence itself, while the Dunmer's entire religion is focused on worshiping Lorkhan, the maker of the Mundus, and the Padomic sons of Lorkhan, the Daedra, and following the path Lorkhan set before them, the path of the Psijic Endeavor to find CHIM.

 

It is an interesting flip from the normal fantasy trope.

[JanusForbeare]

In Elder Scrolls it is the high elves who seek to destroy the world, and purge mankind from existence itself, while the Dunmer's entire religion is focused on worshiping Lorkhan, the maker of the Mundus, and the Padomic sons of Lorkhan, the Daedra, and following the path Lorkhan set before them, the path of the Psijic Endeavor to find CHIM.

 

It is an interesting flip from the normal fantasy trope.

 

I hadn't considered that.

 

While I might quibble over the details of Dunmer spiritual life (I see them as having fallen back on ancestor and Daedra worship after the fall of the Tribunal - and isn't Lorkhan primarily a human god?), it is certainly true that the Altmer are the more antagonistic race in the Fourth Era. However, one good thing that you can say about Bethesda is that they like to paint in shades of grey. There is no notion of "lawful good" and "chaotic evil" here - the various races and nations are motivated by much more familiar, human concerns, such as nationalism, ethnic strife, and the geopolitical balance of power.

 

I think that the reason that the Altmer seem more "evil" in Skyrim is a reflection of the fact that the Summerset Isle has been steadily growing in power, wealth, and influence, while the Dunmer have been decimated by recent events. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, as they say - and that happens all the more quickly with racial supremacists running the show.

[sajuukkhar9000]

I hadn't considered that.

 

While I might quibble over the details of Dunmer spiritual life (I see them as having fallen back on ancestor and Daedra worship after the fall of the Tribunal - and isn't Lorkhan primarily a human god?), it is certainly true that the Altmer are the more antagonistic race in the Fourth Era. However, one good thing that you can say about Bethesda is that they like to paint in shades of grey. There is no notion of "lawful good" and "chaotic evil" here - the various races and nations are motivated by much more familiar, human concerns, such as nationalism, ethnic strife, and the geopolitical balance of power.

 

I think that the reason that the Altmer seem more "evil" in Skyrim is a reflection of the fact that the Summerset Isle has been steadily growing in power, wealth, and influence, while the Dunmer have been decimated by recent events. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, as they say - and that happens all the more quickly with racial supremacists running the show.

The Dunmer religion is based off of the teachings of the Prophet Veloth and the Psijjic endeavor. The Psijjic endeavor is the means to achieve CHIM, the ultimate state of being. Lorkhan created Mundus so that others could find CHIM as he did. The Psijjic Endeavor is the path of Lorkhan.

 

While the Dunmer do not worship Lorkhan like Humans do, they still recognize his part in creating the path that they follow. The Dunmer treat Lorkhan as they treat the Daedric lords, as a obstacle placer, who tests them as they try to reach CHIM, Lorkhan just happens to be the ultimate obstacle maker, the one who made the obstacle of Mundus, the mortal plain.

 

Unlike the Altmer, or the Bosmer, who outright hate Lorkhan for creating Mundus, as those races find Mudnus to be a trap, the Dunmer see Mundus as just another test on their path, a path that would not exist without Lorkhan.

 

 

Also I do agree with your views on the Altmer, while the Altmer do seem evil now, their race as a whole are not some chaotic evil group, most Altmer are just normal joes, it is really only the Thalmor who seek such extremes.

Edited September 17, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[wrathofdragon]

Any ideas?

 

It would be like playing as the Jewish ghetto police or something.

 

The Thalmor are bastards that are conquering everyone, that is as good a reason as any other

[sajuukkhar9000]

The Thalmor are bastards that are conquering everyone, that is as good a reason as any other

The Thalmor are really only bent on exterminating Mankind, and Talos.

 

The Dunmer, while historicaly opposed to Altmer, have little to fear.

 

In fact, The Thalmor's uncoiling of the time Dragon and returning everything to its beginning state could be seen by many Dunmer as a fulfillment of the Psijjic Endeavor, although it really isn't.

[SFBryan18]

Meh. I hope the Thalmor kills everyone. Stupid humans. :tongue:

[Rossum]

Alternately, you ARE on the side of the Thalmor and are backing Ulfric just so he can further weaken the Empire? The civil war that Ulfric is waging is costly and resulting in the deaths of both Imperials and Stormcloaks alike, if Ulfric dies then there is the chance that the Empire would keep control and eventually rebuild their army to a point where they could stand against the Thalmor. If Ulfric wins then the Empire pretty much falls apart and is no longer a threat to the Thalmor, letting them build their own army wage another war against mankind and wipe them out.

 

 

Basically, if the Empire wins then they would have more resources and perhaps be able to field a sizable army to defend themselves when the Thalmor inevitable wage war again to wipe them out.

 

If Ulfric wins then you'll have Skyrim and a severely weakened Empire each standing separately and thus easier to wipe out when the Thalmor attack.

 

At the very least, siding with the Stormcloaks prolongs the civil war and gets a whole lot of humans and people killed without the Thalmor having to invest resources into it. The Thalmor are already planning to wage another war and are building up their forces. This civil war simply tires out the human nations and means the Thalmor will be on better footing the next time.

 

Really, spreading discord amongst your opponents can only help your guys back home. Plus, in a best case scenario then your example of backing Ulfric will let you or other Thalmor agents better infiltrate the resulting independent Skyrim.

[fraquar]

The Thalmor are bastards that are conquering everyone, that is as good a reason as any other

The Thalmor are really only bent on exterminating Mankind, and Talos.

 

The Dunmer, while historicaly opposed to Altmer, have little to fear.

 

In fact, The Thalmor's uncoiling of the time Dragon and returning everything to its beginning state could be seen by many Dunmer as a fulfillment of the Psijjic Endeavor, although it really isn't.

 

What explains the attacking on the Redguards?, they aren't of the human bloodlines.