Trying to justify joining the Stormcloaks as Dunmer

[sajuukkhar9000]

7: They don't give a rats ass about Talos (in fact, culturally they kinda hated him)

Ironic because the Dunmer follow the path of Lorkhan to CHIM, and Talos is Lorkhan reborn.

 

Although few except Vivec know the truth, which explains why Tiber and Vivec were kinda chums, even if Vivec did kill Tiber that one time.

Edited September 24, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[fraquar]

Considering Jenassa is a Dunmer mercenary loner, pretty much anything is possible with the Dunmer. The template is already there for a Dunmer to leave their stereotypical behavior behind - all you have to do is take it and run with it.

[Zazo9090]

I think that the dunmer would probably stay neutral in the war but if they had to pick a side they would pick the stormcloaks and my reason for thinking that is in the DB Dlc it is stated that during the oblivion crisis the imperials abandoned morrowind forcing house redoran to build a army on the spot and allowing the deadra to wreak havoc on the dunmer people after the oblivion crisis due to lack of imperial soldiers and the anger of the dunmer people they left the empire and striped house hlaalu of thier position as a great house while also striping them of thier lands due to thier support of the empire this shows thier resent of the empire also to dispel the argument that the dunmer of morrowind hate the nords due to past wars in either the dawn or first eras you have to remember how long ago that was comprared to more current history like in the 2nd era when nords and dunmer fought and side by side to protect each others land from the first aldmeri dominon, the daggerfall covenant, and two seperate akaviri invasions from the kamal and later the snake men whos name i can't spell then in the third era they were trade partners and members of an empire both mutually agreed to join of thier own volition and if the stormcloaks won the civil war the great houses would go " hey we have a decent past with these guys and we have a mutual resentment for the empire and if we traded they have vast natural resources in the form of many ores and pelt and in exchange we can give them our foods and exotic spices which they lack and if we were to support each other in a military alliance we could trade and there military which made up of some of if not the best natural warriors in all of tamriel would support us in the event of the argonians attacking again, a imperial reclamation attempt, or in the unlikely event of another akaviri invasion " and if this did happened it might influence hammerfell to join such an alliance and even if it dident lead to that it would be good for an independent skyrim because increased trade would bolster thier economy and dunmer in skyrim would be more likely to join the army in such an event, it would be good for morrowind for aforementioned reasons, and it would be good for the empire because in the event of another great war the nords would join the imperials on the warfront at sea and land which would force the dunmer to join due to thier alliance with the nords remember that the dunmer Didn't fight in the first great war because they already left the empire so this time the aldmeri dominon would have to fight a empire of cyrodil and high rock ,a independent hammerfell, and a allied skyrim and morrowind which makes the land battle much harder and the naval battle even harder then it was before

[Zazo9090]

Also it says that eventually despite the result of the civil war or the 2nd great war the empire is doomed to fall because it says in oblivion that only those of the dragon blood which by the way doesn't have to be dragon born like in skyrim they only need the blood of a dragon not the soul can lead a successful empire not fated to crumble such as the alessian blood line and the septim dynasty this is due akatoshs and other dragons natural ability to lead being past on to all of dragon blood this is why despite martin septim being a illegitimate basturd gets the imperial council to bow to him and crown him emperor its in his nature. Also there is two ways bethesda could save the empire they just find a peasant or minor lord that has the dragon blood which would be boring and not lore friendly because thiers no known test for the dragon blood outside of a divine item such the amulet of kings or option B they give skyrims civil war a canon ending both stormcloaks or imperials would work if you did it right and make the skyrim character have a canon race and origin then make the dark brotherhood quest line canon this would all build up to the dragon born we saw in the first skyrim trailer the emperor of tamriel uniting all nations under a common banner to fight the aldmeri dominon this is the only way you could keep the empire whole otherwise it turns back into seperate nations which if they allied Wouldn't be that bad because they could beat the aldmeri dominon and it opens the gate for new factions , alliances, wars, and plot points and long as one of these two outcomes happens i Don't know about you but ill be happy

[Padre86]

Any ideas?

 

It would be like playing as the Jewish ghetto police or something.

Not a valid comparison (comparing the Stormcloaks to Nazi's) for one.

 

Two, play how you want to play.

 

Three. You don't have to join either side if you don't want to.

 

IMHO, a Dunmer would be a perfect character for playing a neutral mercenary or assassin. The Dunmer are basically refugees who have been driven from their lands by natural disaster. They have no direct dog in the Thalmor vs Empire fight, and by extension they really aren't too concerned with whether or not Ulfric's rebellion succeeds. Morrowind, and the Dunmer, have always been a people unto themselves. Even when the Empire originally "conquered" Morrowind, it was really more of a diplomatic agreement and the country and its people maintained a great deal of autonomy from the Empire.

[Skagens]

Not a valid comparison (comparing the Stormcloaks to Nazi's) for one.

 

Yes and no. I think what he was getting at is that it would make much sense to fight for a side that hates you. The Stormcloaks are distrustful of all elves, not just the Thalmor/High elves.

[Padre86]

 

Not a valid comparison (comparing the Stormcloaks to Nazi's) for one.

 

Yes and no. I think what he was getting at is that it would make much sense to fight for a side that hates you. The Stormcloaks are distrustful of all elves, not just the Thalmor/High elves.

 

 

The Stormcloaks, and Nords in general, are distrustful of and maybe don't like all the Dunmer refugees streaming into their lands. But that doesn't equate to wanting to hunt them down and wipe them out (which is what was implied by the Nazi reference). If a Nazi reference is going to be made to any faction within TES, it would be the Thalmor.

 

The fact is, the Dunmer, and many other races, live throughout Skyrim. There is even a significant population of Dunmer in Windhelm. The politics of the Dunmer ghetto there aside, this shows that Ulfric and the Nords are at least capable of tolerating the Dunmer presence (one could even infer that there must have been some benign intent on Ulfric's part to let them into the city in the first place, though this isn't explicity stated in the game or lore). As well, there is a Dunmer who owns a farm near the Stormcloak capitol and many other Dunmer hold important positions in other holds (the housecarl in Whiterun). Comparing the Stormcloaks to Nazi's would imply that there is some organized effort on their part to confine, enslave or totally wipe out the Dunmer population in Skyrim. But there is no evidence of such in the game or lore. The most you can point to are a few drunk Nords giving some Dunmer some grief at the entrance of Windhelm, but it isn't being sanctioned by Ulfric and there are even other Nords within the city who don't approve of such behavior.

 

The Nords are a tribal society for sure; they're into their own culture and identity in a big way. Heck there is even some tribalism among the different holds and clans within Skyrim. That said, they will and have given their respect to foreign individuals who have proven themselves in battle or have otherwise earned respect. I think the most defining example of this is when they finally defeated the Snow Elf prince. They hunted the Snow Elves down like vermin, but out of respect for the Snow Elf prince's martial prowess (he slew many a Nordic warrior) they gave him a proper burial to honor him. Race and cultural pride has significance to many Nords, but they are willing to overlook such things when a person earns their respect.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Padre86

[Skagens]

The Stormcloaks, and Nords in general, are distrustful of and maybe don't like all the Dunmer refugees streaming into their lands. But that doesn't equate to wanting to hunt them down and wipe them out (which is what was implied by the Nazi reference). If a Nazi reference is going to be made to any faction within TES, it would be the Thalmor.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you. I actually agree to most of what you're saying, but I can also understand what the original poster meant by the comment. Comparing the Stormcloaks to the Nazis and conclude that they are exactly the same is incorrect. We agree on this. What I think he implied by the comment wasn't what you stated, but that the Stormcloaks are distrustful of elves, and he was planning on playing a dark elf. With the political climate and the racial tension in the game in mind, don't you think it would be a little weird for a dark elf to join the Stormcloaks? Not even a little bit? That is what I think he was getting at. It's a matter of opinion. You interpreted the comment your way, and I my way.

 

The fact is, the Dunmer, and many other races, live throughout Skyrim. There is even a significant population of Dunmer in Windhelm. The politics of the Dunmer ghetto there aside, this shows that Ulfric and the Nords are at least capable of tolerating the Dunmer presence (one could even infer that there must have been some benign intent on Ulfric's part to let them into the city in the first place, though this isn't explicity stated in the game or lore). As well, there is a Dunmer who owns a farm near the Stormcloak capitol and many other Dunmer hold important positions in other holds (the housecarl in Whiterun). Comparing the Stormcloaks to Nazi's would imply that there is some organized effort on their part to confine, enslave or totally wipe out the Dunmer population in Skyrim. But there is no evidence of such in the game or lore. The most you can point to are a few drunk Nords giving some Dunmer some grief at the entrance of Windhelm, but it isn't being sanctioned by Ulfric and there are even other Nords within the city who don't approve of such behavior.

 

You took his small comment and took it super literally. I doubt there was some underlying meaning behind the comment, it's just that the Stormcloaks come off sort of like nazis. They're not, but to the layman they are. Which I wouldn't fault them for. The first thing you're encountered when entering Windhelm is two racists making threats to a dunmer. That's the first encounter you have when you enter, which also makes it your first and biggest overall opinion over the city and the Stormcloaks. What I will give credit to Ulfric is that although he may not help the dunmer, he also doesn't hinder them in any way. There's a dunmer farmer in Windhelm because he'd probably had to work his way to where he is. The dunmer of the Grey Quarter like to complain about their district being the slum that it is but they haven't taken steps themselves to improve it in any way either. It's my opinion that the nords value strength above all, and the dunmer don't. It's a slum because they allow it to be a slum. That said, while I think the majority of the Stormcloaks are just regular good, nationalistic people, I don't think you deny that there are some who are just racist douche-bags.

 

The Nords are a tribal society for sure; they're into their own culture and identity in a big way. Heck there is even some tribalism among the different holds and clans within Skyrim. That said, they will and have given their respect to foreign individuals who have proven themselves in battle or have otherwise earned respect. I think the most defining example of this is when they finally defeated the Snow Elf prince. They hunted the Snow Elves down like vermin, but out of respect for the Snow Elf prince's martial prowess (he slew many a Nordic warrior) they gave him a proper burial to honor him. Race and cultural pride has significance to many Nords, but they are willing to overlook such things when a person earns their respect.

 

Well put.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Skagens

[Zazo9090]

I hope that after the 2nd great war the empire does end up disbaning and all nations become either self governing or join into other alliances for trade, protection, or power i think this would allow for new political and faction based story lines filled with war, espionage, heroism, treachery, corrupt politicians, and righteous rulers i know this is kinda off topic but does anyone agree

[Padre86]

I hope that after the 2nd great war the empire does end up disbaning and all nations become either self governing or join into other alliances for trade, protection, or power i think this would allow for new political and faction based story lines filled with war, espionage, heroism, treachery, corrupt politicians, and righteous rulers i know this is kinda off topic but does anyone agree

 

As role-playing Nord, I think the Empire's dissolution has been long overdue, and I think many regional kingdoms/factions (nords, redguards, dunmer) have a right to govern themselves and look to their own interests.

 

As general Elder Scrolls enthusiast, I think a breakup of the Empire lends itself to a more dynamic and more refreshing plot and lore development for the gameplay. The Empire has been a dominating social/cultural construct within almost every single Elder Scrolls game (excepting Elder Scrolls Online, which isn't a true Elder Scrolls game IMHO). I've enjoyed having that presence in earlier games as it gave me play style options: I could play as a character who hates the Empire's law and order (assassin, vampire, thief); or as someone who works with the Empire (fighter's guild, mage, main quest line); or even someone who is totally ambivalent and neutral on the issue. But I think that mechanic and lore structure has worn itself thin and I'd like to see a new setting/environment where there are different factions/kingdoms with the potential for competing national objectives and even potential conflict....I really think such a setting would really freshen up and bring new life into the game universe....IMHO of course.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Padre86