Creation Club Summer 2017

[MightyZ0G]

 

Well sure, and there is a reason they are not providing information and putting people under an NDA.

 

 

Welcome to Creation Club.

The first rule of Creation Club is: you do not talk about Creation Club.

The second rule of Creation Club is: you DO NOT talk about Creation Club!

[Reneer]

And which games with that kind of SOP have a vibrant modding community like we do?

 

None.

Except this isn't modding as we know it. This is basically contract work. Individual developers or teams pitch their ideas to Bethesda and if Bethesda likes the idea they basically give the developer the contract / payment to work on the idea and then, once the DLC is completed, Bethesda owns it and will sell it on the Creation Club.

 

Also, we don't even know if the NDAs are going to continue once the Creation Club is actually launched later this summer. Hell, I can remember that I had to sign a NDA for the Fallout 4 Creation Kit Beta. It's nothing new or surprising.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Reneer

[N7R]

 

Which is literally standard procedure for almost every contact job in games, this one included.

< Why the hell would that be standard procedure? What does Bethesda have to hide from us, besides that they screwing us over? >

 

 

As someone that has been in the gaming industry for 7+ years NDA it is pretty standard no matter the position (you could be a janitor that cleans in the studio for all they care and still need to sign one). It sounds like mod authors who get approved for the CC will see and use a lot of internal workings and tools that Beth uses in-house. Most of that stuff is usually never intended for public use or knowledge (no matter how cool it would be for community members to see). I've never been on a game that didn't have a standard NDA (as far as the work I've done in the AAA industry, I don't know about indie games and their NDA strictness so can't speak for that). It is there to protect anything and everything an employee will see when working for said studio, even after contract ends or they leave they still can't disclose stuff. NDA is not really a malicious contract agreement to hide info from customers, its there for the employers to employees to protect IP, company plans, internal workings, anything they might see along the way not related to their job position, etc.

 

I agree it would be nice for Beth to provide more info on CC for the viewpoint of regular users but not everything that mod authors who get in CC are things regular users need to see or know if its not important to modding for Skyrim/Fallout 4. We have no knowledge if these same people getting in CC may get to create new content for future games as well and that would be a very good reason for NDA.

[SMB92]

Wow didn't this thread go downhill in a hurry.

 

I'll just say this again though, remember Bethesda is owned by ZeniMaxProfits. I'm sure the people at Bethesda are fairly nervous about all this themselves.

 

Regarding FO4s poor story. I read an interview with Todd where he says they have a long way to go with their story telling, and they aren't quite happy where they at. At least they admit it ;)

 

Regarding Beantown mod. Nothing wrong with Beantown, everything wrong with stupid proprietary systems Beth put in place to allow for unoptimized world building.

 

Edit - Regarding NDA. I am under NDA every day of the week at work. As one of two IT techs for my whole company (well 8 companies consisting of 350-400 people actually), I am not allowed to disclose any information I pickup, unless its relevant to the user of the system or involves me reporting it to HR. Pretty standard stuff all the way around.

[bluesunmerc]

Also on the subject of NDAs people are notorious for relaying information incorrectly. Modder A may see something and relay it poorly and modder B may see the same thing and describe it better than modder A. Some people aren't good at relaying information or could simply want to embellish something to stir the fan base up or any number of possibilities.

 

If Bethesda wasn't facing the possibility of a huge community backlash the NDAs may have never been incorporated, but right now the last thing they want is someone relaying poor information about the cc and starting a huge fire that they have to try and put out. I'm sure Bethesda knows they are walking on a very fine line and any mistake this close to the launch of the CC could result in a disaster.

Edited June 18, 2017 by bluesunmerc

[DSPiron]

<Yes, and the best way to counter that is no info at all, letting people assume the worst, rather than actually putting the truth out there?
Or, better yet, if the community will likely hate it, DON'T DO IT.>

 

I am under NDA every day of the week at work.

< Yes, but you don't also belong to a community of amateurs who wish to do the same thing, but are hampered by lack of info and tools you have.

You'd have an unfair advantage, and are able to do much better than all of them. Why should they even bother to do it, if you are just going to outdo them?>

 

It sounds like mod authors who get approved for the CC will see and use a lot of internal workings and tools that Beth uses in-house. Most of that stuff is usually never intended for public use or knowledge

< Oh? And why is it not intended for public use?

Is it so Bethesda can give an advantage to the modders that will make them money, and give free modders the short end of the stick?>

 

If Bethesda really cared about thier games, they'd actually put the effort into it to make it better. Or, better yet, make them all open source and remove money from the equitation entirely.

But no, then we'd never spend another dollar on half-baked crap meant to maximize Bethe$da'$ return$.

 

Hell, someone should make an open source Fallout 4, and run Bethesda greedy ass out of business anyway. Between this and Fallout 4, they don't deserve to be making Fallout titles. Fallout should belong to it's fans, the people who truly love it as more than a cash cow.>

Edited June 18, 2017 by DSPiron

[chucksteel]

@DSPiron, I don't really know how to approach this one so here is a look at your profile page.

 

 

Joined: 09 September 2014

Posts: 2 Topics: 0 Files tagged: 0 File images: 0 File endorsements given: 1

 

So you've been around for about three years, contributed NOTHING to the community, only posted in this thread and endorsed one file!

 

Way to support the community you love.

[MightyZ0G]

 

If Bethesda wasn't facing the possibility of a huge community backlash the NDAs may have never been incorporated, but right now the last thing they want is someone relaying poor information about the cc and starting a huge fire that they have to try and put out. I'm sure Bethesda knows they are walking on a very fine line and any mistake this close to the launch of the CC could result in a disaster.

the NDA would be in place for reasons stated earlier about protecting IP (plots/themes for future projects etc).

the trouble is that NDAs have to cover everything so that any possible breach can be taken through the legal system. because of this, people who sign the NDA won't make any statements about CC, even to say that it's all above board and there is no cause for panic, in case it is seen as a (possible) breach and they are kicked out.

 

the worrying trend is that publishers (not game developers) are putting price tags on everything and if they aren't getting the money themselves they are shutting it down.

 

Topware have just put microtransactions into Two Worlds II so that if you want to cheat you have to pay as they have disabled console commands.

what happens if Zenimax follows suit?

they know people will buy the next ES or FO game whether there is a modding community or not, especially on consoles. what is to stop them from putting the kibosh on free mods and console commands? when we pay for a game we don't pay for the right to use console commands, those are there purely for the developers to test the game.

there will be backlash but it won't damage their business. even though I know that PCs are capable of far more than consoles, consoles (and mobile devices such as phones and tablets) are the future of video gaming because it is the casual gamer that generates the most revenue in sales and they have been acclimatised to accept microtransactions in all aspects of their gaming, especially paying to get things without spending time playing the game or getting past difficult stages.

BGS are in the business of developing video games but they have to work within the framework set by Zenimax who are in the business of making as much money as they can from BGS' IP.

 

it doesn't matter that the situation with Take2 and OpenIV/Scripthook is different to Zenimax and F4SE/F4Edit/Bodyslide/Outfit Studio.

it doesn't matter that it is Topware, not Zenimax, removing console commands and replacing them with pay to cheat microtransactions.

what matters is that they are setting precedents and if they are successful then other publishers will probably follow suit.

[bluesunmerc]

 

 

If Bethesda wasn't facing the possibility of a huge community backlash the NDAs may have never been incorporated, but right now the last thing they want is someone relaying poor information about the cc and starting a huge fire that they have to try and put out. I'm sure Bethesda knows they are walking on a very fine line and any mistake this close to the launch of the CC could result in a disaster.

the NDA would be in place for reasons stated earlier about protecting IP (plots/themes for future projects etc).

the trouble is that NDAs have to cover everything so that any possible breach can be taken through the legal system. because of this, people who sign the NDA won't make any statements about CC, even to say that it's all above board and there is no cause for panic, in case it is seen as a (possible) breach and they are kicked out.

 

the worrying trend is that publishers (not game developers) are putting price tags on everything and if they aren't getting the money themselves they are shutting it down.

 

Topware have just put microtransactions into Two Worlds II so that if you want to cheat you have to pay as they have disabled console commands.

what happens if Zenimax follows suit?

they know people will buy the next ES or FO game whether there is a modding community or not, especially on consoles. what is to stop them from putting the kibosh on free mods and console commands? when we pay for a game we don't pay for the right to use console commands, those are there purely for the developers to test the game.

there will be backlash but it won't damage their business. even though I know that PCs are capable of far more than consoles, consoles (and mobile devices such as phones and tablets) are the future of video gaming because it is the casual gamer that generates the most revenue in sales and they have been acclimatised to accept microtransactions in all aspects of their gaming, especially paying to get things without spending time playing the game or getting past difficult stages.

BGS are in the business of developing video games but they have to work within the framework set by Zenimax who are in the business of making as much money as they can from BGS' IP.

 

it doesn't matter that the situation with Take2 and OpenIV/Scripthook is different to Zenimax and F4SE/F4Edit/Bodyslide/Outfit Studio.

it doesn't matter that it is Topware, not Zenimax, removing console commands and replacing them with pay to cheat microtransactions.

what matters is that they are setting precedents and if they are successful then other publishers will probably follow suit.

 

I agree that they would also want to protect their ips/inner workings/in house tools etc. As pretty much everyone in the community who knows about CC knows that its a powder keg, and someone leaking some poor information could really set it off. I will say I agree that it has a possibility to set a precedent that does not bode well for the future.

 

@DSPiron I think that Bethesda being quiet about CC is a bad idea but as I said above they know its a delicate situation and some modder poorly wording something could end CC and Bethesda obviously wants this to work, or tell us how bad its going to be. Either way keeping things quite until they are ready is the best thing for them.

Edited June 18, 2017 by bluesunmerc

[MightyZ0G]

nothing to do with this being a powderkeg and them not wanting bad information leaked. it would happen if the plan is for Zenimax to pay modders and get BGS to help them to create free mods of DLC quality I know this is the most unlikely scenario but we can dream (look how much free DLC there was for The Witcher 3) but it demonstrates that public opinion has nothing to do with the NDAs. they are there purely to protect IP and prevent competitors from finding out exactly what they are up to.

 

it's all to do with industrial espionage and nothing to do with the opinion of a minority of the customer base.