Breton Thief Oriana Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 The world is here for the exploration of the mind...a limtiless or near-limitless example of gaining knowledge through trial and error, or tradition, or brainstorming, etc. But what is the difference between thinking, feeling, and knowing? is it all in the mind, both literally and figuratively? or is there a latteral truth to religion and the higher power in depiction of a view of ones self?(note that this is expressly NOT to be a topic directly on religion, but on how a spiritual side affects the mind!) Is this life but a dream, and therefore this death an escape? or is waking up impossible because the dream is ever continuous, such as reincarnation would have us believe?and, the most important question of them all: are the limits and deceptions of the human mind linked with the fact that it is the HUMAN mind and not another races? [note that this is different than the Cafe' Philosophiqe post in that it is specific.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesaynothin Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 A quote from 'Bart Simpsons Guide to Life:'"How do we know this isn't a magic superbeetles flashing daydream?" Even though it is the simpsons, it fits. But anyways, at least -MY- idea goes like this: If one believes strongly something will happen, it will happen. That event will make the 'dream' warp around you, causing a momentary following of the belief in this happening, by everyone around. Since in these peoples mind it has happened, it becomes a weakreality. It didn't happen in the reality that is just 50 yards away, because they didn't see it happening. But once word spread, it becomes a stronger belief, thus making a stronger reality. Did that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohGr Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 But once word spread, it becomes a stronger belief, thus making a stronger reality. like religion, people finding a "reason" to live, word spreads, more interested people, and the word spreads even more, making christianity what it is today with the bible and the 4 donuts of azplamathorusisheimwhisywhasyspooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Actually what you must realise is that we never expect anything to happen until we have seen it happen. Our brain operates several planes into the future indeed possibly in several alternative futures all at once. So there is never cognisance only belated acknowledgement of pre-cognisance. Hence the operation of deja-vu, where the brain has somehow registered the pre-cognition earlier than it should. This state known generally as the 'oh-my-god-I-should-have-seen-that-coming' school to the proto-ataxian logicians has been proved because it is a well established fact that we always know when we should not be doing something even as we are doing it My MA* thesis discusses parallel cognition in mice. I use mice because they seem on the whole more rational than human beings and irrationality is a problem when trying to measure seriously abstruse mental processes. *muddled attempt For instance, does the mouse know that its reason to live is to help humanity work out their reason to live, which is of course how any imaginary creator must be working out his/her/its reason to.... Oh dear, I think I've gone off topic. Now what was your question again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 Question was: Does the deception of the mind occur because we are only human? (do all the previous Questions in the first post happen because we are human minded, and therefore limited?) does that help, Malchik? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 Actually I have to confess my last post was pure spam for which I have issued myself a stern warning. It was total nonsense from start to finish but - hey - it was my birthday, I had to have a little treat. Human imagination is very limiting but the question I would prefer to answer is 'is that a valid excuse?'. In my opinion it is overworked. The mind can be stretched hugely if people are willing to spend the time at it (but not many seem to be). When I write fantasy fiction I have non-human races such as Air elementals. In one, a human being visits the place they inhabit. Because it is so unlike anything he understands as reality his mind tries to make it comprehensible. He comes away knowing that what he 'saw' was not what was. The extent to which we do this as a normal cognitive process I do not know but I imagine it is more than we realise. And it is not limited just by being 'human', it is limited by each person's invividual experiences. It doesn't exactly answer your question but raises what I believe are significant points in any debate on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonProphet Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I'm going to start this off with my signature. It is supposed to be humorous, but it is valid here. You can do anything by beleiving it can be done. I don't mean just telling yourself, "I can do this." I mean actually beleiving that you can. Somebody who beleives that they are flying cannot be convinced otherwise. You can show them the ground they are standing on, but they won't see it. If they really, truly beleive they are flying, then they are flying. This is the concept behind religon. Somebody truly beleives beyond any possible doubt that there is a god and that he created everything. Because of his beleif, to him there is a god. nothing you can do will convince him otherwise. I myself beleive that there is no god, and I cannot be convinced otherwise. When I die, consciousness ends and there is nothing more. This is why my signature is valid. Crazy people beleive very passionatly and can't be convinced that they are wrong. They actually believe the wall talks back, so to them, the wall does talk back. Reality is defined by those of us who are most insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Interestingly, neurotheology studies the link between religious experience and a form of epilepsy - transcript of a BBC program on this subject here . According to this, religious visions are induced by a chemical imbalance in the brain - ie our brains deceive us into thinking that we had a vision granted by some higher being. As for reality, what defines reality? Our brains process sensory input - this input should be the same for everyone who witnesses the same event. However, IMO each brain filters this input through a 'matrix' (not meant as in matrix the movie :P ) - of previous experiences, learning and perhaps expectation. The end result of this filtering process is what we perceive as reality. So I guess you could say that our brains deceive us by creating this reality for us. As for the difference between thinking, feeling and knowing - how do we 'know' we are thinking or feeling something? I guess you could say that everything we think, feel, perceive or know is just our brain's interpretation of chemical signals in form of neurotransmitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Thief Oriana Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 As for the difference between thinking, feeling and knowing - how do we 'know' we are thinking or feeling something? I guess you could say that everything we think, feel, perceive or know is just our brain's interpretation of chemical signals in form of neurotransmitters. we know we are feeling when we feel, when we use our senses, when we have a mood or a twinge on our brain. feelings take up the largest portion of our mind space while we feel. more important, however, is the concept of what we think and what we know. knowledge, as a whole, is best used to broaden our thinking. but, our minds are constantly being decieved by what we know and feel. feelings lead to irrationality, panic and disorder, but sometimes, if you trust your feelings, fortune favors you. knowledge can lead us to underestimate things, and hinders as well as broadens our thinking. our thinking is the greatest tool that humans have. thinking leads to questions, where the best ones are the ones which cannot be answered. also, we cannot think, know, and feel at the same time. although the man of knowledge may be a great man, he takes only what he knows, and not what he thinks, making the thinking man surpass him. also, the feeling man judges only his whims, which turn more wrong than right. what you perceive limits furthur what you think, as it is used in conjunciton with your knowledge to hinder your thought patterens. on a mundane and minor scale, you can trust your feelings and perception. but, it is better, in the scheme of life assuming infinite time, to judge what you think and take all matters into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnoc Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 The question is also, what knowledge really is and if you really can know or if what you think you know is really knowlegde or just something faked. What is if anyone who has visions or dreams is seeing reality and what we think that we know (everything we acchieve through science) is just fake and isn't really knowlegde at all, but just a lie? What is if our logic and rationality is just not the right thing and only our feelings are telling the truth? We always try to explain things rationally, but what is if this isn't possible and reality isn't rational at all. Perhaps reality is more about what we feel and our feelings are more trustworthy than our rationality and logic. I just think that we are too easily with trying to explain everything rationally. Perhaps this isn't possible, who knows? I think we should learn to trust also our feelings and not only our mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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