System compatibility modes and save game size

[Dwalin2012]

I have recently resumed my "endless" gameplay (have finished the main quest time ago, but there are still dozens of huge quest mods ahead), there are a couple of things I don't know whether I should be concerned about:

 

1) As far as you know, does the size of the save game file eventually become a problem? I mean, is there a certain limit when it becomes "too big" to play? It's just I remember somebody told me time ago that already having a 10 mb size is a little too much, while right now my last save is 28 mb (28038 kb, to be precise).

So, do you think the fact it's getting bigger (although slowly) can eventually become a problem?

 

2) While I played for a long time using the Windows 7 compatibility mode, it became difficult to play on Windows 10, some mods took forever to install, especially "Integration: the stranded light", which could take 1 hour to install and another hour to finalize the last stage of installation, when it says "99% installed, 0 items remaining, 5 seconds remaining" or something like that. After the most recent Windows 10 update, "Integration" became literally impossible to install, it took about 1 hour as usual, but then never finished the 99% stage, even if I waited 5 hours or so. As I discovered by mere chance, the solution was to turn off ANY compatibility for all the exe files, I simply stopped using it for Wrye Bash, vanilla setups, OBSE, everything, and it started working so good that "Integration" installed in LESS THAN 10 MINUTES! :ohmy:

By the way, I also turned off the option "running as administrator" too, for all the exe files. In your opinion, is this relevant for the game, does it create problems or solve them? I mean, it's impossible to guess today, considering that Oblivion was made for Windows XP I think, yet when I used XP compatibility mode, it couldn't even open the vanilla setup.exe file from the disc.

 

Also, although it's a more general question: for Skyrim and Morrowind, should I play them with compatibility and administrator turned off, just like with Oblivion, or do they work differently? It's just all those regular system updates often change things critically, especially considering that they often install themselves on the PC either without warnings or maybe I don't notice them sometimes.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dwalin2012

[Surilindur]

I cannot comment on the savegame size issue, although that does sound a bit excessive. You could try backing up anything related to your savegames and then using some of the tools available in Wrye Bash to see if you can cut some unnecessary bloat out of it. Maybe. Unless the size is only natural. I would also like to know what sizes other people's savegames have!

 

I have Oblivion (also Morrowind and Skyrim) installed in a Steam library folder on a game-dedicated disk/drive to avoid any Windows security measure problems that might turn up if having them inside a Program Files directory. From what I have noticed, on a fully updated Windows 10, none of the compatibility measures are required at all for anything. The only thing that requires the "run as administrator" box checked (and requires only that) is obse_loader.exe if and only if running the Construction Set Extender because the CSE itself refuses to run otherwise (and notifies the user about it, if I remember correctly). Nothing needs to be run in any compatibility mode and nothing else needs to be run as administrator. Everything just works, which is great.

 

But it is noteworthy that some people have (based on threads here on the forums) failed to get Oblivion run at all on Windows 10 for some odd reason. So maybe it is possible that something somewhere can prevent Oblivion or other games from working properly, but I do not know what it could be and have not had similar issues myself, so I do not know where to start looking, other than the Event Viewer maybe if something is listed there. You can always test it yourself, by removing all compatibility options and then launching the game.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Contrathetix

[TheMastersSon]

A 28MB savegame indicates tremendous bloating. I've never seen (or even heard of) one that big. None of mine (including some that are 7+ years old) are much over 4MB. Whether this bloat presents a problem will depend on the cause.

 

If you start a new game and save it right when you exit the IC sewers, what size is it?

 

As for Windows 10, as always, the real answer is to use Win 7. :)

 

[Dwalin2012]

I cannot comment on the savegame size issue, although that does sound a bit excessive. You could try backing up anything related to your savegames and then using some of the tools available in Wrye Bash to see if you can cut some unnecessary bloat out of it. Maybe. Unless the size is only natural. I would also like to know what sizes other people's savegames have!

 

I have Oblivion (also Morrowind and Skyrim) installed in a Steam library folder on a game-dedicated disk/drive to avoid any Windows security measure problems that might turn up if having them inside a Program Files directory. From what I have noticed, on a fully updated Windows 10, none of the compatibility measures are required at all for anything. The only thing that requires the "run as administrator" box checked (and requires only that) is obse_loader.exe if and only if running the Construction Set Extender because the CSE itself refuses to run otherwise (and notifies the user about it, if I remember correctly). Nothing needs to be run in any compatibility mode and nothing else needs to be run as administrator. Everything just works, which is great.

 

But it is noteworthy that some people have (based on threads here on the forums) failed to get Oblivion run at all on Windows 10 for some odd reason. So maybe it is possible that something somewhere can prevent Oblivion or other games from working properly, but I do not know what it could be and have not had similar issues myself, so I do not know where to start looking, other than the Event Viewer maybe if something is listed there. You can always test it yourself, by removing all compatibility options and then launching the game.

 

I tried that and the results are weird: the save after exiting the sewers is only 6235 kb big. When I saved during the sewers it was 300 or 400 kb smaller. The strange thing is though that, if it is all about bloating, then why, when I applied the "remove bloat" option in Wrye Bash to the 28-mb-big save game, then it almost didn't change the size? While it was 28038 kb, after removing the bloat it becomes 28004, not that big of a change, to put it mildly....I also tried the "Repair Abomb" option, but it doesn't change the size of the game, it only concerns animation, and I only needed it once during my whole playthrough, long time ago: when Martin in his dragon form fights against Mehrunes Dagon at the end, the animations started moving extremely slowly, almost freezing. When I used the "repair abomb" option, the animated sequence went all right and I never had problems of this kind since then. At the moment, the Abomb option says "current progress at 57%", but that "Abomb animation slowing won't occur until progress is near 100%".

 

So I don't know.....Maybe it's because my playthrough goes WAY back and with every save (and I save VERY often), it becomes bigger? Because, to be honest, it's my first and only Oblivion character; while I tried several different ones when I was new to the game, I never used them much further than exiting the sewers. So, once I decided for a definitive character, it has always been the same for about a decade, and I continuously installed new mods during the playthrough, upgraded them every time an update became available, especially the huge ones like "Better Cities" and "Unique Landscapes". Sometimes I removed mods after finishing them, although I did so only with small or medium-sized mods, but maybe this could cause problems, I am not sure. Also, quite often I had to re-install the game, especially after the Windows updates that started causing problems and stopped causing them only after a complete re-install. But the save game was always the same I used since back then, so I don't know whether the enormous 28 mb size is due to a decade-long playthrough or is it something else. If it's about bloat, then Wrye Bash doesn't help because, as I said, the remove bloat option almost doesn't change the size.

 

I could start a new character, but you can imagine how much would it take, ANOTHER decade to play EVERYTHING from the beginning :smile: Better to hang myself :laugh: My character is level 54 now, so starting from 1 again.....Better switch to another game or continue as it is, maybe.

 

P.S. I never save in the same slot and don't use autosave, to avoid it being corrupted.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Dwalin2012

[Striker879]

This is just an opinion, but if you have plenty of RAM and are using the 4GB patch and the save is loading fine I wouldn't go looking for trouble.

 

I'm not at home so I can't check my own save game size but I'm pretty sure it's over 5MB. Yes I sometimes get a little 'crashy'for a while, but I also use options in one particular MOD that isn't recommended by the MOD author (not to mention some of my other quirks that will increase save size).

 

Sounds to me like you have good saving habits, which goes a long way to keeping your save usable.

[Dwalin2012]

This is just an opinion, but if you have plenty of RAM and are using the 4GB patch and the save is loading fine I wouldn't go looking for trouble.

 

I'm not at home so I can't check my own save game size but I'm pretty sure it's over 5MB. Yes I sometimes get a little 'crashy'for a while, but I also use options in one particular MOD that isn't recommended by the MOD author (not to mention some of my other quirks that will increase save size).

 

Sounds to me like you have good saving habits, which goes a long way to keeping your save usable.

 

Yes, I use the 4Gb patch, but there are so many big mods that at the current state of the game it doesn't help by itself, only in combination with Enboost v259. Without that, even with the 4Gb patch the game crashes after about 3 (maximum 4) teleportations, fast travels or entering / exiting doors. I don't remember well. When I just started using this patch, it helped more (probably because I had less mods, and I didn't know about enboost yet), especially in Bravil, which was the place where I had more crashes. When I use both 4Gb patch and Enboost v259, then I can play without crashing for quite a long time. Now, while the game runs more or less ok, Bravil (along with Cheydinhall) is still the more "crash-rich" place, followed by Chorrol.

 

By the way, maybe others could find this useful if they have the same problems: while the wrapper version of Enboost simply didn't work for me initially, crashing the game at the start before even loading the main menu, and I used the injector version with the exe file (even though it's supposed to be for laptops), this happened only when I played with Windows 7 compatibility. After the latest update for Windows 10, the game sometimes stopped seeing Enboost, increasing the crashes to desktop therefore. Other times, it continued to see it, but I couldn't figure out the logic or "rule" when it did and when it didn't. However, when I turned off compatibility and administrator, even though the injector version doesn't work any more, the wrapper one suddenly started working perfectly!

 

Anyway, the important thing is that BOTH the 4Gb patch and Enboost v259 work, only that gives enough RAM as it seems.

 

One minor thing, but still rather important to mention imo: for some reason, I can't enter the lowest level of the Goblin Jim's cave, when I have Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul turned on. Not that I reallty need to, as I already cleaned it up before (without any crashes), but still, it's weird....When I needed to check a chest later, placed there by the "Kragenir's Death Quest" mod, I couldn't do it because of this "entrance crash", so had to teleport the chest out of there. If I turn OOO off, I can enter the place without crashing, but the point is that earlier I had OOO TURNED ON, yet still was able to clean up the area without any crashing at the entrance. I never managed to identify neither the reason nor the precise moment when the area started triggering the crash.

 

And 2 things related to the mods: there is the mod "Guards of Cyrodiil" about the Swamp Moth legionnaires, I tried to uninstall it after finishing, but the game "refuses" to save if I try to do so with this mod disabled or uninstalled. I mean, I am able to start a new game without it, but, if I load a save where it was present and try to save again with it being disabled, the saving process crashes, no matter what I try. No re-installation, console commands or bloat removing helps. Once, I managed to get the game saved with it disabled, but only when I keep the "Druid mod remade" disabled as well. No idea why, what would these 2 mods have to do with one another but, since the Druid mod is one of my favorites and I have completed all the quests in it, it's an easier choice to keep the damn "Guards of Cyrodiil" as well, rather than replaying it from the start. However, none of this makes any sense to me, I quote it as an "illustration" of how unpredictable can mod combinations be.

 

And another one: a German mod called "The Order of the Dragon" ("Orden des Drachen"). I haven't yet played it, but want to, as it seems very interesting from the descriptions. However, when I tried to install it, the game became so "heavy" with frequent crashes and freezes, as if it didn't have enough Ram even with both the 4Gb patch and Enboost. Although the last time I tried this mod was still with Windows 7 compatibility, I haven't yet tried it after the latest Windows 10 update and discovering that the game works better without compatibility. Will have to try it yet, but I keep it as the last one to play, as it's the biggest of all the mods I haven't played yet.

 

Sorry for the excessively long post, it's just I thought it was better if I explained in more detail, in case somebody else has the same problems.

[Striker879]

If you are running the disk version of the game you can also run the 4GB patch on obse_loader.exe ... I found that doing so helped (Win7 64 bit 8GB RAM).

[Dwalin2012]

If you are running the disk version of the game you can also run the 4GB patch on obse_loader.exe ... I found that doing so helped (Win7 64 bit 8GB RAM).

 

Yes, I did this, I patched Oblivion.exe and OblivionLauncher.exe too just in case. Don't know whether these ones were necessary though, but if obse uses the Oblivion.exe process, maybe....I am not sure how exactly it works.

[Striker879]

The patch just changes a setting in an executable to allow it to use more RAM.

 

OBSE uses obse_loader.exe to inject the additional scripting functions it offers into Oblivion.exe at run time.

[Surilindur]

-- As for Windows 10, as always, the real answer is to use Win 7. :smile:

 

The real answer is to use Windows XP if that is what the game was built on, but then again, that one is obsolete, as Windows 7 will also be soon if not already. I am getting sick of that Windows 7 vs. Windows 10 debate. This thread was about running Oblivion on Windows 10, and Oblivion does run on Windows 10 just fine. If someone has issues running Oblivion on Windows 10 then chances are that someone will also have issues with Windows 7. According to a few Google searches, anything after Vista is a problem. There are threads here on the Nexus forums with people having issues running or modding Oblivion on Windows 7, so simply using Windows 7 is no solution at all. Period. Some people will always have issues running anything on any operating system. Oblivion runs fine on Windows 10, and it does not need any compatibility options to do so (as discovered by Dwalin2012, although from what I have noticed, none of the compatibility measures were needed even before the latest update). If anyone needs video footage to prove that Oblivion runs on Windows 10 then I am happy to provide it. The fact is that there will always be someone out there who fails to get some program running somewhere.

 

I need to check what happens to my savegame size when starting a new game later today. If it really is bloat (sounds a bit excessive for the size of a single savegame file, already from the perspective of disk space usage), then maybe it could be of some type that Wrye Bash cannot recognise as bloat? Maybe? If there exists anything like that. :huh: