Becoming A Master Of Skyrim - 10 Things You Need To Know

[Cataxu]

You forgot the most important skill of them all to pwn those stupid monsters; Shieldbash. Waaaay to overpowered in vanilla, as soon as this glorius skill is aquired all problems are byegons!

Combined with the sprinting shield park and a decent onehander it will make you an unstoppable killingmachine. Forget shouts, fancy pancy magic, dogshape, dragonsummoning and everything else, well you may acctually have to level a lot of "unnecessary" (but funny) skills just to get an challenging experience on master.

 

Thank god for all the mods that bring back danger to skyrim, without them the replay value would be close to zero.

 

I absolutely agree with you on the power of shieldbash. It most definitely breaks the basic vanilla game. PISE is basically essential to getting any true difficulty at the game if you chose to play S&S/2-Hander.

 

Aside from that, Fortunado have you actually played Master? Crafting before you've invested into your armor and weapon of choice perks is most definitely a mistake and having played perkless up to around level 30 this information is definitely viable and necessary to get anywhere.

No, its not a mistake, its a play style. None of what was said in the OP is necessary. Quite the opposite actually. Nothing is necessary. People that meta game in an RPG like an ES are effectively "Doing it wrong". Any, and everything can be viable in an ES. Since viability is subjective and based on how the gamer is role playing.

 

Sorry but not every build is a solid, viable build. Not even in this game.

And yet it is. If there are mechanics there to represent a feature, then it is viable. Viability is subjective, depending on what the gamer is role playing.

 

I have no idea how that applies to the combat system in any way whatsoever.

Because certain RPs, obviously fight, and don't fight, certain things. Not to mention, most any combat system is viable on Master. It may not be optimal, but it is viable, especially with mods. Not to mention there's plenty of builds that don't even use combat.

 

I don't like the 'list' because it undermines RPers and role playing. RPGs are not about meta gaming, they are about role playing. And when you role play, any and everything is viable.

 

I blame the demographic Beth targeted with Skyrim for this influx of "play this like an action game", that's rampant in Skyrim discussions on various boards.

 

I assume you're also including so-called "min/maxers" in that "action gamers" demographic of yours. Pacifists kill nothing, if you're roleplaying a pacifist character who does not fight or has to cherrypick his fights because his build is in no way optimal or suited to combat, what are you doing in a discussion about Master difficulty?

 

Sure, any build is "possible" I suppose if you're willing to put up with serious aggravation and trial-and-error; often times having to run away. From my own experience, playing the game without perks is a luck-based game that is not fun nor very viable without the use of quicksave and quickloading as every fight becomes roulette.

 

This seems to be an exercise in futility though because you're purposefully avoiding the crux of my argument which is that not all builds are viable. Without a solid build you will not be able to kill much outside of what is scaled to your level, hell you cannot even play an unarmed race effectively with the exception of Khajiit in vanilla Skyrim.

 

Fact of the matter is, you're metagaming when you have to mod the game to make it better suit your playstyle. There is no metagaming in using the tools given to me (the perk system) to play the game better. Nor does a character's build relate to Action Games in any way whatsoever.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Cataxu

[Fortunado3]

You forgot the most important skill of them all to pwn those stupid monsters; Shieldbash. Waaaay to overpowered in vanilla, as soon as this glorius skill is aquired all problems are byegons!

Combined with the sprinting shield park and a decent onehander it will make you an unstoppable killingmachine. Forget shouts, fancy pancy magic, dogshape, dragonsummoning and everything else, well you may acctually have to level a lot of "unnecessary" (but funny) skills just to get an challenging experience on master.

 

Thank god for all the mods that bring back danger to skyrim, without them the replay value would be close to zero.

 

I absolutely agree with you on the power of shieldbash. It most definitely breaks the basic vanilla game. PISE is basically essential to getting any true difficulty at the game if you chose to play S&S/2-Hander.

 

Aside from that, Fortunado have you actually played Master? Crafting before you've invested into your armor and weapon of choice perks is most definitely a mistake and having played perkless up to around level 30 this information is definitely viable and necessary to get anywhere.

No, its not a mistake, its a play style. None of what was said in the OP is necessary. Quite the opposite actually. Nothing is necessary. People that meta game in an RPG like an ES are effectively "Doing it wrong". Any, and everything can be viable in an ES. Since viability is subjective and based on how the gamer is role playing.

 

Sorry but not every build is a solid, viable build. Not even in this game.

And yet it is. If there are mechanics there to represent a feature, then it is viable. Viability is subjective, depending on what the gamer is role playing.

 

I have no idea how that applies to the combat system in any way whatsoever.

Because certain RPs, obviously fight, and don't fight, certain things. Not to mention, most any combat system is viable on Master. It may not be optimal, but it is viable, especially with mods. Not to mention there's plenty of builds that don't even use combat.

 

I don't like the 'list' because it undermines RPers and role playing. RPGs are not about meta gaming, they are about role playing. And when you role play, any and everything is viable.

 

I blame the demographic Beth targeted with Skyrim for this influx of "play this like an action game", that's rampant in Skyrim discussions on various boards.

 

I assume you're also including so-called "min/maxers" in that "action gamers" demographic of yours. Pacifists kill nothing, if you're roleplaying a pacifist character who does not fight or has to cherrypick his fights because his build is in no way optimal or suited to combat, what are you doing in a discussion about Master difficulty?

 

Sure, any build is "possible" I suppose if you're willing to put up with serious aggravation and trial-and-error; often times having to run away. From my own experience, playing the game without perks is a luck-based game that is not fun nor very viable without the use of quicksave and quickloading as every fight becomes roulette.

 

This seems to be an exercise in futility though because you're purposefully avoiding the crux of my argument which is that not all builds are viable. Without a solid build you will not be able to kill much outside of what is scaled to your level, hell you cannot even play an unarmed race effectively with the exception of Khajiit in vanilla Skyrim.

 

Fact of the matter is, you're metagaming when you have to mod the game to make it better suit your playstyle. There is no metagaming in using the tools given to me (the perk system) to play the game better. Nor does a character's build relate to Action Games in any way whatsoever.

Yes min/max is "action gaming" to me. I'm in here because I play on Master with my 15+ serious RPs. Not sure why you keep saying "playing without perks". And no, I'm not metagaming at all.

 

And doing whats most optimal opposed to role playing and doing what is a character prerogative is the definition of action gaming.

 

So in conclusion, all builds are viable, except builds whose mechanics have been removed by Beth cutting. Fact.

 

Doing what that list says means your playing Skyrim like an action game, not an RPG. Any build that can be thought up is viable in Skyrim, unless it has to do with cut, or dumbed down mechanics from Beth decisions.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Fortunado3

[TheBalance]

You can "RP" as much as you want to on any difficulty. The only thing that changes when you flick the switch to 'master' is the combat. Go do whatever you want with your RP character build. I apologize for not putting the word COMBAT in big bold letters - but I figured it would be sort of self-explanatory being as the word MASTER in this case obviously refers to the difficulty setting.

[Cataxu]

You forgot the most important skill of them all to pwn those stupid monsters; Shieldbash. Waaaay to overpowered in vanilla, as soon as this glorius skill is aquired all problems are byegons!

Combined with the sprinting shield park and a decent onehander it will make you an unstoppable killingmachine. Forget shouts, fancy pancy magic, dogshape, dragonsummoning and everything else, well you may acctually have to level a lot of "unnecessary" (but funny) skills just to get an challenging experience on master.

 

Thank god for all the mods that bring back danger to skyrim, without them the replay value would be close to zero.

 

I absolutely agree with you on the power of shieldbash. It most definitely breaks the basic vanilla game. PISE is basically essential to getting any true difficulty at the game if you chose to play S&S/2-Hander.

 

Aside from that, Fortunado have you actually played Master? Crafting before you've invested into your armor and weapon of choice perks is most definitely a mistake and having played perkless up to around level 30 this information is definitely viable and necessary to get anywhere.

No, its not a mistake, its a play style. None of what was said in the OP is necessary. Quite the opposite actually. Nothing is necessary. People that meta game in an RPG like an ES are effectively "Doing it wrong". Any, and everything can be viable in an ES. Since viability is subjective and based on how the gamer is role playing.

 

Sorry but not every build is a solid, viable build. Not even in this game.

And yet it is. If there are mechanics there to represent a feature, then it is viable. Viability is subjective, depending on what the gamer is role playing.

 

I have no idea how that applies to the combat system in any way whatsoever.

Because certain RPs, obviously fight, and don't fight, certain things. Not to mention, most any combat system is viable on Master. It may not be optimal, but it is viable, especially with mods. Not to mention there's plenty of builds that don't even use combat.

 

I don't like the 'list' because it undermines RPers and role playing. RPGs are not about meta gaming, they are about role playing. And when you role play, any and everything is viable.

 

I blame the demographic Beth targeted with Skyrim for this influx of "play this like an action game", that's rampant in Skyrim discussions on various boards.

 

I assume you're also including so-called "min/maxers" in that "action gamers" demographic of yours. Pacifists kill nothing, if you're roleplaying a pacifist character who does not fight or has to cherrypick his fights because his build is in no way optimal or suited to combat, what are you doing in a discussion about Master difficulty?

 

Sure, any build is "possible" I suppose if you're willing to put up with serious aggravation and trial-and-error; often times having to run away. From my own experience, playing the game without perks is a luck-based game that is not fun nor very viable without the use of quicksave and quickloading as every fight becomes roulette.

 

This seems to be an exercise in futility though because you're purposefully avoiding the crux of my argument which is that not all builds are viable. Without a solid build you will not be able to kill much outside of what is scaled to your level, hell you cannot even play an unarmed race effectively with the exception of Khajiit in vanilla Skyrim.

 

Fact of the matter is, you're metagaming when you have to mod the game to make it better suit your playstyle. There is no metagaming in using the tools given to me (the perk system) to play the game better. Nor does a character's build relate to Action Games in any way whatsoever.

Yes min/max is "action gaming" to me. I'm in here because I play on Master with my 15+ serious RPs. Not sure why you keep saying "playing without perks". And no, I'm not metagaming at all.

 

And doing whats most optimal opposed to role playing and doing what is a character prerogative is the definition of action gaming.

 

So in conclusion, all builds are viable, except builds whose mechanics have been removed by Beth cutting. Fact.

 

Doing what that list says means your playing Skyrim like an action game, not an RPG. Any build that can be thought up is viable in Skyrim, unless it has to do with cut, or dumbed down mechanics from Beth decisions.

 

I have no idea what any of this means or how it's relevant to the topic, maybe there's some sort of language barrier here? Are we playing the same game? Do you even participate in combat?

[Fortunado3]

snip

Have you ever even played Skyrim? Anything is viable on Master unless Beth simply cut it or marginalized it within an inch of its life. You don't need to do any or all of the things on that list to be effective with any build type on Master in Skyrim. You can be pure H2H on master just as much as you can be a bound dual wielder, or a sneak thief archer. And you don't have to utilize what was written to be effective, as to which the article says "these are musts" etc.

 

I know because Ive played nearly every way you can play in Skyrim and played on nothing but Master. The worst vanilla thing is Destruction's lack of leveling, but its still viable.

 

Conversely, nearly all of the points in the list are no brainers for any difficulty level, character dependent of course.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Fortunado3

[Roxana]

Master level is exceptionally difficult and mostly about survival until you hit >80 in the relevant skills

and then it is still about...survival. Anyone who waltzes through it must be mod'd to the eyeballs or

else tells fibs.

 

 

Fortunado3, your reputation precedes you as a caustic critic who excells in destruction only.

 

Most of the OP's comments are valid: topographry, AI etc and I have died more times at master than

in any other game and this is why it is so good a game as it is a real challenge. As for your comments

about action gaming & RPGers, I think that you have no idea and I go way back to Ultima I.

I did NOT like the direction Beth took with F3 (after F1,F2 & FT) but it and FNV have their good points

 

IMO Skyrim is the BEST and most satisfying RPG of all time....so far.

[Brandy1123]

Really good post with a lot of playtime behind it. I have played everything i can possibly play except a lizard and a true mage. As I don't care for Argonians and a True Mage would be oh so boring to my game play and style.

 

My pet tree's are Archery and Stealth. I have yet to easily walk through anything but the most scripted Bosses designed to interact with you regardless of character action. I play Master level exclusively with mods that increase difficulties. This game is like any other game with respect to the AI. You find flaw in object navigation, collision and blocks and use them to your advantage. I think your 10 things to be a Master of Skyrim should include not picking up items, not going to dungeons and killing people prior to a quest spawn to go there and not retieve something or killing someone before its requested. That is mastering this game. Determining the AI is a simple basic objective. Knowing when and how to do something simply and effortlessly is mastering it.

[Fortunado3]

Fortunado3, your reputation precedes you as a caustic critic who excells in destruction only.

Nope, I excel at role playing and playing ES games.

[Tidus44]

My pet tree's are Archery and Stealth. I have yet to easily walk through anything but the most scripted Bosses designed to interact with you regardless of character action. I play Master level exclusively with mods that increase difficulties. This game is like any other game with respect to the AI. You find flaw in object navigation, collision and blocks and use them to your advantage. I think your 10 things to be a Master of Skyrim should include not picking up items, not going to dungeons and killing people prior to a quest spawn to go there and not retieve something or killing someone before its requested. That is mastering this game. Determining the AI is a simple basic objective. Knowing when and how to do something simply and effortlessly is mastering it.

 

 

I agree 100%. The 10 points the OP listed are probably not bad advice generally for some players, but they are not the only way to play and seem somewhat slanted to one type of play and/or character. There are other important things to do (as pointed out by Brandy), and really a lot of Mastering the game will have to do with the players style and character type and the challenges they place on themselves playing.

 

I really do not think there are any "useless" or "worst" perks either. It depends on how a person plays and what they want to do in the game. For example, I know that lots of players go around and pick up everything they can possibly pick up and sell and then point out there is nothing to spend the gold on. So, why the compulsive activity and struggle to pick up every item, search/clean out every pot and chest and then run to the nearest town to sell it all to a merchant who doesn't have enough money to buy it all anyway, so you have to run to another town to get rid of a bunch of useless junk in inventory that is just weighing you down and interferes with collecting more stuff you have to carry and try and sell to get a bunch of gold you can't use anyway. Seems kind of silly to me.

 

If you really have Mastered the game, then you can do those things you want to do in the game based on your playing style and the challenges you place upon yourself in playing. I certainly find placing poison I have made in the pockets of everyone in a fort and setting rune traps all over and then waiting 24 hours (or more) to go back and stroll casually around to find the quest item I need because everyone is dead a worthwhile challenge and not specifically useless to work on the perks necessary to achieve this.

 

Not a bad list and some good advice for some players, but it could be added to as well.

[TheBalance]

It's tough to describe my feelings on some of the responses posted here about my latest article.

 

I thought it was pretty clear that the word Master in the title of the piece referred to the difficulty - a quip, if you will - that would tie into 'mastering' the game. There's a lot of redundancy about 'if you mastered the game, you wouldn't need blah blah blah'. I thank those valuable contributors for their efforts here. . . right.

 

Next, how some perks aren't worthless, and/or how the advice in the post isn't applicable to every play style. Here's a tidbit - the difficulty setting relates directly to combat. Not your ability to farm and sell every item in the game from every house in every city, or your 'roleplaying' of a character that sits in town all day and does nothing. Master Difficulty = combat, which obviously does not apply to everyone's enjoyment of the game - since some people play Skyrim and avoid combat. Which baffles me. But that's their decision.

 

It's rather pointless to say that the points are pointless if your point is only to point out that you don't bother playing the game through it's centric point of development (combat), and instead choose to role play through it doing... whatever it is you do. Go do it and leave the difficulty on whatever setting you wish - it probably won't effect your game much, at all. Why harp about how the points here aren't applicable (to your enjoyment of the game)? Seriously?

 

They're 100% applicable to everyone who thought they needed to up the difficulty on Skyrim - because, in doing so, they only had the combative aspects of the game in mind. What exactly are you trying to argue? That they set the slider up a few notches so it'd be harder to mindlessly pick up items and ferry them to a vendor?

 

Enjoy the game how you want, but don't complain other things need to be listed when they aren't even applicable to the central topic.

 

Good day.