Anime people ;)

[ginnyfizz]

neither of the body mods in Skyrim are "anime" ...

 

I'm not using either of them, but something else, and that isn't either :whistling: watch this space... Unfortunately I don't have a non-naked Emilie picture to illustrate the kind of face I like to run with (as she has been too busy streaking for beta testing purposes). Must go in game and get a face only and with clothes.

 

Can't say I am too keen on the Shojo type face myself, but then, it is not for me to stop anyone who is! I totally agree, people need to stop trying to make other feel guilty or small about what they have in their game.

 

Edit;- she put her clothes back on, this is the kind of face I like to see, personally, in my game. Please bear in mind she is level 62 and a redhead with a temper...not a gal to be crossed!

 

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/janepreddy/TESV2012-03-0322-53-04-69.jpg

Edited March 3, 2012 by ginnyfizz

[JimboUK]

I fail to understand how topics like these get a ton of posts. Why do so many people care? I really do not get it. If you don't like something like this why do you care if someone else does? If you do why do you care so much when people hate on it? I just don't see how so many people can get genuinely upset about anime mods or people.

 

I personally dislike anime mods and I do not really care for anime in general. It is beyond me how so many people can actually care deeply about these kinds of things.

 

At the end of the day it is completely up to your personal opinion and taste.

 

I post in these types of threads not because I care one way or the other about anime because I don't, what I do care about is self appointed arbiters of taste seeking to force their tastes onto others be it by belittling them, abuse, constant whining or the example Ginny gave of those at somethingawful. It's not only the tiresome trolls in the comments here, I have a video on Youtube of a FO3 character I created ages ago and I've had to set the comments to pre-approve because I was having to remove abuse on a daily basis. If these people take the lore very seriously then that's fine, what's not fine is telling me I have to.

[Deleted472477User]

neither of the body mods in Skyrim are "anime" ...

 

I'm not using either of them, but something else, and that isn't either :whistling: watch this space... Unfortunately I don't have a non-naked Emilie picture to illustrate the kind of face I like to run with (as she has been too busy streaking for beta testing purposes). Must go in game and get a face only and with clothes.

 

Can't say I am too keen on the Shojo type face myself, but then, it is not for me to stop anyone who is! I totally agree, people need to stop trying to make other feel guilty or small about what they have in their game.

 

Edit;- she put her clothes back on, this is the kind of face I like to see, personally, in my game. Please bear in mind she is level 62 and a redhead with a temper...not a gal to be crossed!

 

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/janepreddy/TESV2012-03-0322-53-04-69.jpg

 

 

Your character looks great! She's attractive and definitely not anime. Attractive =/= anime. Anime is a specific style of art and while comparisons can be made, only it looks like it. I am so not into manga or anime except for a select few. It's too cutesy for me. I want to have some suspension of disbelief, and it's hard for me to believe a character that looks like she should be squeaking Fus Ro Dah is the Dragonborn. I just can't get my head around it. But if someone else likes it, fine. As long as I can find enough mods that suit me, it's all good.

[ginnyfizz]

Thankyou! However, she is just the sort of character that gets labelled as anime by the sweeping statement brigade. You know she isn't anime, I know she isn't, but according to some folks, she's cute so she must be anime. I have long since ceased posting screenshots of my characters anywhere much because they seem to cause so much of that kind of furore. I will occasionally upload them to a mod's image section where it is a mod that I have used or, indeed, beta tested (like the one that is responsible for the depicted Breton Brat and which is probably coming soon...), because I know that the Nexus staff WILL step hard on the trolls.

[Moraelin]

You are confusing a number of unrelated concepts and then projecting your own mistakes onto others.

 

I'm not the one going around calling any cute character "anime". There is no projecting there. It actually happens.

 

You take a few isolated incidents of people trolling as the accepted norm.

 

I never said it was necessarily accepted or norm. At least on these boards, the mods do a pretty good job of containing any serious trolling. It does however happen and it's one of the recurring topics. And it actually happens a lot more often than the "OMG, anime crap" kind of trolling. The most varied things are described as "anime" all the time, including, yes, any cute face, but also

 

- just about any body mods, but especially I've seen big breasts described as "anime boobs" or such. And sometimes the most conflicting things about one are called anime, like both getting a bigger butt in one mod AND losing some weight in another are "anime"

 

- any hair that looks like it saw a comb in the last week (e.g., Apachii's hairs)

 

- poses

 

- races (beats me where they even found an anime race on the Skyrim nexus)

 

- any clothes more colourful than dark grey or brown, and/or which don't look like they've been used as a mop the whole week

 

- wings (seriously? The Christians have been painting anime all over their churches for the last thousand years, then? ;) )

 

- any fancier armours, or anything too revealing (never mind that thongs of armour are a bigger staple in the west that they ever were in Japan), but also again anything colourful or more complex looking than a shield tied to your chest (it seems a constant that if it looks like it might involve HALF as many plate pieces or sleek fitting surfaces as a RL gothic plate, someone will call it "anime". And it's funny because the only reason those appear in Anime is when the Japanese are trying to make something Western-themed and try to draw European armours.)

 

- big weapons (never mind that over here a 12'th century enemy of King Arthur apparently had a sword that could be used as a bridge, or that the Minoans had actually built giant two-edged axes) especially if wielded by women (although, again, see the Minoans: they beat the Japanese by 3000 years to that punchline)

 

Etc.

 

And sometimes it's not even clear what exactly is anime for the poster, because it's some generic tarring everything with the same brush like "unlike all the anime characters that fill the Nexus nowadays" or (about the other content) "I'm getting sick of just seeing anime everywhere" or "it's getting hard to find non-anime armour" or such.

 

Even if they're not the kind of "OMG, get this off the Nexus" post where you'd call a mod on them, or it's about some OTHER unspecified anime content that the poster finds everywhere, it's pretty clear that a bunch of people see anime just about everywhere they look.

 

And of course, if you go to other sites, even the trolling may not be nearly as well contained as here.

 

Your point is completely invalid since it relies on quibbling over pointless semantics and taking offense at the use of mere words. Just grow up, for heaven's sake.

 

1. I never actually said anything about taking offense, so I'm not sure whatever gave you that idea. I just find it stupid and revealing gross ignorance. Totally different concept from taking offense.

 

2. "Semantics" is actually a question of "meaning". We use words to convey a meaning. That's in fact, the only reason we use them. People throwing around words whose meaning is severely at odds with what they're trying to describe, is what makes it stupid.

 

3. *shrug* Take your own advice. It seems to me a bit strange to dish out that kind of "just grow up" advice, when you too are basically doing the same quibbling about a topic nobody's forcing you to participate in.

[Moraelin]

Thankyou! However, she is just the sort of character that gets labelled as anime by the sweeping statement brigade. You know she isn't anime, I know she isn't, but according to some folks, she's cute so she must be anime. I have long since ceased posting screenshots of my characters anywhere much because they seem to cause so much of that kind of furore. I will occasionally upload them to a mod's image section where it is a mod that I have used or, indeed, beta tested (like the one that is responsible for the depicted Breton Brat and which is probably coming soon...), because I know that the Nexus staff WILL step hard on the trolls.

 

Aye, that's just what I'm talking about. Just about any face that looks young, pretty, or lacking a manly square jaw, will be "anime" for someone. Glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed it.

 

Though to be fair, as I was saying, sometimes it's hard to tell. Some people seem to have such a fuzzy idea of "anime" that it's often not even the face, but just about any haircut short of a matted mess, hair colour, colourful clothes, choices of weapons, or any armour they don't know actually existed in the middle ages or renaissance. Especially since in most cases it's people who also profess to not watch anime, it's probably no big surprise that their idea of anime is just a big imaginary mash-up of every single thing they don't like, and it's surprisingly easy to find someone filing any non-obvious thing under anime.

[marharth]

I see why that might get pretty annoying now, but I still couldn't see myself getting too upset over people saying stupid stuff like that.

 

I have never uploaded any of my mods though so I don't really know for sure if that is how I would feel.

 

I understand what you guys are saying now though.

[anubispriest]

I never actually said anything about taking offense, so I'm not sure whatever gave you that idea. I just find it stupid and revealing gross ignorance. Totally different concept from taking offense.

 

This is that part I find amazing: I don't believe that at any point Moraelin said or intended to have said an opinion on Anime as an art style and/or a like/dislike to it. I feel that is something others have read into it based on their own bias (either for or against).

 

I believe the debate is over what is called Anime and how the term has gotten so broad in definition that just about anything can come under the label. If the label is going to be so broad than why bother? In my opinion that would be like broadening the term "humanoid" to include sperm whales and star-nose moles. Would it not be more important to remove "This is Anime" tags and replace them with "This is NOT Anime" tags? As many have posted, it seems that so many people have a love for Anime that they see nothing else. If all you love is a hammer, than everything in life is a nail.

 

I do not agree that classical art is Anime, but that is ok: I'm not going to ask anyone to change their opinion. I also don't agree that there is not Anime in the European classics: Anime is a type of art that has roots, an evolution, but one that should not be regressed to include its own parentage. That is much like saying people are dirt scurrying mammals from the Jurassic: maybe we evolved from them (or didn't if one believes in Divine Creation) but saying that to someone's face may receive a bit of ire. Early Japanese art had its purpose as well: the love of nature and scenes usually meant that any close up of the human face was not done. If it was, maybe what is labeled Anime would have been within Japanese art hundreds of years ago. Maybe....

 

Oh, and for those who quote me and state, "Proof of an obvious Anime hater..." (I know someone will say it) You are wrong: I happen to have a modest collection of Anime. The art is minimalistic so artists hand drawing every frame don't spend a decade on one 90 minute movie, and that is ok with me: I'm into Anime for the awesome epicness of the stories. By far the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex two seasons are my favorite: the story lines include cosmically huge and precise comments on the human condition, politics, psychology and many other serious topics. But then again... my opinion, and you don't have to like it. In Skyrim I used mostly "mistake, error, glitch and bug fix" mods: most are not even remotely "Anime" in any sense (map with roads mod, for example), but I do prefer the sometimes "anime tagged" athletic male/female body replacers...

 

P.S.: to Thandal, thanks for the topic move: the debate to some seems irrelivant, but I find that the directions of mods in Skyrim are being greatly influenced by this topic.

Edited March 4, 2012 by anubispriest

[Moraelin]

I do not agree that classical art is Anime, but that is ok: I'm not going to ask anyone to change their opinion.

 

Oh, it's not. I can see how my first post would be unclear, but what I was saying is basically that you just know that if Raphael was a modder and posted a saved char with some of those heater-shield shaped faces and bright clothes, someone would call it anime and/or tag it as anime. And you just know that if some of those faces from classical paintings with big eyes and heads half the size of their torso were posted as companions, they'd get not just "OMG, anime", but also the "OMG, pedo" trolling by someone somewhere.

 

Not to mention, if someone came up with such a historically correct and apropriate for the Roman Empire theme as a gladiatrix. Yeah, half-naked young girls with swords... that's three of the most common reasons for complaints right there :P We beat the Japanese to THAT punchline by 2000 years, fair and square.

 

As you were saying, when people have only one hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

 

I believe the debate is over what is called Anime and how the term has gotten so broad in definition that just about anything can come under the label. If the label is going to be so broad than why bother? In my opinion that would be like broadening the term "humanoid" to include sperm whales and star-nose moles. Would it not be more important to remove "This is Anime" tags and replace them with "This is NOT Anime" tags? As many have posted, it seems that so many people have a love for Anime that they see nothing else. If all you love is a hammer, than everything in life is a nail.

 

Pretty much.

 

Actually, those don't bother me as much as those who self-confessedly are unqualified to know jack about anime, yet feel qualified enough to label stuff as that. I don't have a problem with their hating anime or not watching anime -- after all, it's their own time and tastes -- but then they just don't have the experience to judge whether an armour is from an anime, or just an european armour that may or may not have been also drawn by some Japanese artist too, but usually wasn't.

 

It's like if I said that I don't listen to Russian music (e.g., Tschaikowski and the gang), but felt qualified to comment that someone's game music mod sounds Russian. How would I know, really? On what experience would I base such a judgment?

 

That said, I don't mind the existence of the Anime tag as such. I just wish people would actually use that label and tag apropriately. As in, do they know exactly what Anime it's from, and that there is no RL equivalent? I've talked about something not being the Anime version before myself, e.g., for my Zanbato, but that is actually conveying the information that it's the historical one and not the ahistorical one actually featured in an anime. That's actual information, not just a way of saying "well, you can stop hating it now." If people actually conveyed the information "yes, it actually is the weapon from Naruto" and "no, there is no reasonable RL or western equivalent" (otherwise it's not even "anime" per se, it's a real item or face or whatever that incidentally also got drawn by some Japanese artist at some point), it's useful information, but as a generic synonym for "well, I don't like it" it's pretty useless. There is already the endorse or not endorse option for that.

[myrmaad]

I completely see the point made in the original post, and Ginny, your post made me laugh. (I too have a naturally heart shaped face to my everlasting chagrin.)

 

I had no idea, though, that there was this pressure to add anime tags to skyrim mods that aren't anime, and for that reason, I think the discussion becomes quite relevant to Skyrim.

 

 

Perhaps some enlightening is in order. The OP's contention is not that classical art is anime. Exactly the opposite point that anime art is predisposed to the same classic standards of beauty as the classical artists. :laugh:

 

It comes back to the pervasive overblown, self-entitled and self-inflated attitude of one who thinks they are the ultimate critic, and should be the arbiter and dictator of what is presented for consumption.

 

:dry:

 

The other point I want to make, is that this seems to me to be a knee jerk reactionary response from the community that hated the Japanese influence in Oblivion. They love to complain but you don't see many of them get off their asses and learn blender, do you?

 

And this one last thing that is slightly off topic, but I have been doing a lot of research into the history of women warriors, and the fact is there is such a dearth of women warriors historically, that most women warriors simply adapted mens armors as best they could, and most likely only fought a short while out of necessity rather than a career. There just isn't much to go on, except fantasy. And in fantasy you can do whatever you want. That's why the realism argument always fails.

 

Why is this relevant to your topic, because they are likely labeling everything that is feminine and somewhat or perceptually viewed "modern" as anime. Am I right?

I give you "misogyny".