People on welfare, what is a good way to root out the life stylers?

[Deleted472477User]

My partner is in New Zealand, and has a mental illness (borderline personality disorder) and some other issues preventing her from working, so she needs her benefit, since I'm barely making it on my own and her family can't always help, either. If she could, she would work.

 

The kids always suffer in cases where things are taken away, and it's easy to say "Don't have children if you're poor" or "Well, you should have thought of that..." but it's never that easy in reality, despite what some would have you think, especially here in the states. I'm all for people doing what they can, if they can, including work, to support themselves.

 

Here--so far as I know--in the States, unless you have kids or a mental or physical disability, or you're retired and picking up social security/retirement fund, there's no assistance like there is over there. We have unemployment, at least.

 

I do think the volunteering in return is a good idea.

[HeyYou]

It used to be having another baby would get you a 'raise'. That changed in the 80's or 90's.... Don't recall which......

 

What disgusts me is, DHS (the folks that administer welfare...) allows you to have SOME assets.... like, a home....... So there was the case of the family in Washington state, (I think) that was collecting welfare, yet living in a million dollar home......

 

Something that REALLY disturbs me though is, Alcoholism being ruled as a "disability"....... and folks being on Social Security because they are drunks......

 

It changed in the welfare reform act of 96.

 

I'm not aware of any of the alcoholics I know getting social security benefits for being alcoholics. In fact in the two states I'm most familiar with it's extremely difficult to get disability (for any reason) and you usually have to keep going back to press your case and prove it's valid, even if you have all the forms right the first time.

 

http://www.ssa.gov/p...10029.html#a0=1

 

I live in michigan. Unfortunately, I am all too aware of what it takes to get SSD...... as I am on it. (multiple sclerosis.... yep, we are indeed having fun...) I am personally aware of 4 people right here in my home town that collect SSD for alcoholism.... So, it isn't impossible to get, merely difficult.

[Dweedle]

My partner is in New Zealand, and has a mental illness (borderline personality disorder) and some other issues preventing her from working, so she needs her benefit, since I'm barely making it on my own and her family can't always help, either. If she could, she would work.

 

The kids always suffer in cases where things are taken away, and it's easy to say "Don't have children if you're poor" or "Well, you should have thought of that..." but it's never that easy in reality, despite what some would have you think, especially here in the states. I'm all for people doing what they can, if they can, including work, to support themselves.

 

Here--so far as I know--in the States, unless you have kids or a mental or physical disability, or you're retired and picking up social security/retirement fund, there's no assistance like there is over there. We have unemployment, at least.

 

I do think the volunteering in return is a good idea.

 

Fair enough for your Partner, that is what welfare is meant to do, help those who need it, it is a shame though that there is a bunch of people who abuse the system.. imo the people who suffer the most from system abuse are the people who are in legitimate need of help.

 

Is it possible for her to do volunteer work? voltunteer work can really boost peoples spirits.

[dunmermaiden]

My partner is in New Zealand, and has a mental illness (borderline personality disorder) and some other issues preventing her from working, so she needs her benefit, since I'm barely making it on my own and her family can't always help, either. If she could, she would work.

 

The kids always suffer in cases where things are taken away, and it's easy to say "Don't have children if you're poor" or "Well, you should have thought of that..." but it's never that easy in reality, despite what some would have you think, especially here in the states. I'm all for people doing what they can, if they can, including work, to support themselves.

 

Here--so far as I know--in the States, unless you have kids or a mental or physical disability, or you're retired and picking up social security/retirement fund, there's no assistance like there is over there. We have unemployment, at least.

 

I do think the volunteering in return is a good idea.

 

Fair enough for your Partner, that is what welfare is meant to do, help those who need it, it is a shame though that there is a bunch of people who abuse the system.. imo the people who suffer the most from system abuse are the people who are in legitimate need of help.

 

Is it possible for her to do volunteer work? voltunteer work can really boost peoples spirits.

 

I am said partner, have to admit your wording annoyed me a bit in your opening statement. Not everyone rips off the system here, I don't smoke I don't drink and I most certainly do not do drugs or illegal activities yet, with the way I barely make my ends meet every single week I have absolutely no idea how other people can afford these things especially on unemployment.

 

I agree with you about the dpb, that needs scrapping and some kind of referal from womans refuge instead to be allowed to those who need it to get out of a bad relationship.

 

There are articles everyday online in the news of jobs being axed, this is scary cause you know what? There are more poor people in nz that rely on the benefits to survive and if you take them away you take away peoples ability to survive and believe you me people aren't going to lay down and die quietly.

 

Instead us poor will be forced to rob the rich neughbourhoods just to eat and live, yes most of us will be caught because we're not professional theives however to send us to jail will cost the country 100k per year per person compared to the 15k per year on the benny.

 

Which makes more economic sense hmmm?

 

With Key's making the big reforms to make people homeless when there is only 1 homeless shelter in the whole of NZ is just disgraceful. It's a ticking time bomb, since jobs are few and far between and the cost of living so high.

 

I reckon if the poor get much more haters changing things well, I reckon it's time for pitchforks and torchs because I for one are sick to death of struggling to meet costs and people whining about how beneficeries all smoke dope and are drunkards and lazy.

 

We're not all like that.

 

I havn't been able to find work since 1991 when I fell ill, and got locked into the mental health system found out ten years on was misdiagnoised and forced to take drugs that zombiefied me for years and took away my life. I can't sue my parents for creating the enviroment based mental illness I have ether, nor can I sue for the years I spent misdiagnoised and in a hellish system that tortured me and others with their so called "treatments" Ever tryed electrc shock treatment, IPC lock up and hospitals and half way houses. They are nightmarish.

 

I managed to escape out of all that. Now my biggest threat to get past is trying to survive Key's welfare reforms, can I do it?

 

Yes, but I have no doubt I will be talking from jail once I can no longer afford to live.

 

It's disgraceful the govt forcing me and others to get into criminal activitys because we can't survive.

 

You think about that before you start pointing fingers next time. I mean really, how would you like to be forced into doing criminal activity because had no other way to make enough money to live?

[Dweedle]

My partner is in New Zealand, and has a mental illness (borderline personality disorder) and some other issues preventing her from working, so she needs her benefit, since I'm barely making it on my own and her family can't always help, either. If she could, she would work.

 

The kids always suffer in cases where things are taken away, and it's easy to say "Don't have children if you're poor" or "Well, you should have thought of that..." but it's never that easy in reality, despite what some would have you think, especially here in the states. I'm all for people doing what they can, if they can, including work, to support themselves.

 

Here--so far as I know--in the States, unless you have kids or a mental or physical disability, or you're retired and picking up social security/retirement fund, there's no assistance like there is over there. We have unemployment, at least.

 

I do think the volunteering in return is a good idea.

 

Fair enough for your Partner, that is what welfare is meant to do, help those who need it, it is a shame though that there is a bunch of people who abuse the system.. imo the people who suffer the most from system abuse are the people who are in legitimate need of help.

 

Is it possible for her to do volunteer work? voltunteer work can really boost peoples spirits.

 

I am said partner, have to admit your wording annoyed me a bit in your opening statement. Not everyone rips off the system here, I don't smoke I don't drink and I most certainly do not do drugs or illegal activities yet, with the way I barely make my ends meet every single week I have absolutely no idea how other people can afford these things especially on unemployment.

 

I agree with you about the dpb, that needs scrapping and some kind of referal from womans refuge instead to be allowed to those who need it to get out of a bad relationship.

 

There are articles everyday online in the news of jobs being axed, this is scary cause you know what? There are more poor people in nz that rely on the benefits to survive and if you take them away you take away peoples ability to survive and believe you me people aren't going to lay down and die quietly.

 

Instead us poor will be forced to rob the rich neughbourhoods just to eat and live, yes most of us will be caught because we're not professional theives however to send us to jail will cost the country 100k per year per person compared to the 15k per year on the benny.

 

Which makes more economic sense hmmm?

 

With Key's making the big reforms to make people homeless when there is only 1 homeless shelter in the whole of NZ is just disgraceful. It's a ticking time bomb, since jobs are few and far between and the cost of living so high.

 

I reckon if the poor get much more haters changing things well, I reckon it's time for pitchforks and torchs because I for one are sick to death of struggling to meet costs and people whining about how beneficeries all smoke dope and are drunkards and lazy.

 

We're not all like that.

 

I havn't been able to find work since 1991 when I fell ill, and got locked into the mental health system found out ten years on was misdiagnoised and forced to take drugs that zombiefied me for years and took away my life. I can't sue my parents for creating the enviroment based mental illness I have ether, nor can I sue for the years I spent misdiagnoised and in a hellish system that tortured me and others with their so called "treatments" Ever tryed electrc shock treatment, IPC lock up and hospitals and half way houses. They are nightmarish.

 

I managed to escape out of all that. Now my biggest threat to get past is trying to survive Key's welfare reforms, can I do it?

 

Yes, but I have no doubt I will be talking from jail once I can no longer afford to live.

 

It's disgraceful the govt forcing me and others to get into criminal activitys because we can't survive.

 

You think about that before you start pointing fingers next time. I mean really, how would you like to be forced into doing criminal activity because had no other way to make enough money to live?

 

Well I think you should re-read my statements as I have not tried to insult you or other legitimate beneficery's, im trying to find a way to help people like you who are honest people, i've been on a benefit now for 3 years myself and am hating it, but as a rural student I also don't have much of a choice.

 

I never said all people on benefit smoke dope and drink 24/7 but most do and this is what the general public see's and thus what the Government sees and sadly after my 2 years on a Winz funded course I have to agree that the majority of people there were stoners and drunks just there so they could keep getting money for their habit.

 

THESE are the people that need to have their benefits cut so people like YOU who do NOT do these things can get more assistance from the Government to help you more.

 

As many have stated that Drug tests would be too costly and not provide enough results then we must look to other options.

 

I do not want to see honest people like yourself & others suffer because of the actions of others.

 

I apologize if I have caused offense but I just want to figure out a way so that honest people like ourselves can get more help from the government, I am a student and it is going to be hard for me too because they have changed the ways student loans work, currently if a course is not 5 days a week it is counted as "part time" so they do not give you any money and currently I am fighting this because there is no jobs anywhere, im just lucky that im living with my parents so I dont have to worry about eviction.

[Lisnpuppy]

It used to be having another baby would get you a 'raise'. That changed in the 80's or 90's.... Don't recall which......

 

What disgusts me is, DHS (the folks that administer welfare...) allows you to have SOME assets.... like, a home....... So there was the case of the family in Washington state, (I think) that was collecting welfare, yet living in a million dollar home......

 

Something that REALLY disturbs me though is, Alcoholism being ruled as a "disability"....... and folks being on Social Security because they are drunks......

 

I would like to know what planet that was on.

 

let me tell you a little story. When I was pregnant with my daughter I had to quit working for medical reasons. I was a manager of a bookstore at the time. I have a college education. Unfortunately though my health issues were in part pregnancy related...to get Social Security Disability takes a LONG LONG TIME. Then the Father of my child decided to leave the relationship (of 4 years that time around)...leaving me with no job, no money, no way to pay the rent...etc..etc. So...I move in with my Mom (actually passing my Father in and out the door the day I moved...as my parents were separating..awkward--so only one income there now.) Anyway....so I can't work and I swallow my pride and trot my butt down to the DHHR and try to get some help. Because I didn't qualify for any job training...or whatever training it was....I did NOT get a welfare check....like that bit of money to pay bills, etc. Thankfully I did qualify for food stamps...WHICH I COULD NOT USE TO BUY CIGS OR ALCOHOL...people that think that are misinformed.(Though at the time they were like paper money and could be traded to those criminal-minded for money or those things I guess.) So a pregnant woman....living with a single-income Mom (she made about $12/hr at the time which wasn't bad for her at her age..but she did not work a full 40 hrs and had to pay for her healthcare as she was not yet 65...and made too much to qualify for any assistance also.) We had rent and food and all that to pay...they gave me $112 a month in food stamps.

 

Yup....that is what I qualified for....$112 and a medical card.

 

I asked...in surprise....what if I wasn't living with my Mom...they replied...hey its a good thing your car is still titled to your Dad or you wouldn't get anything.

 

When I had my child...I got the food stamps doubled.

 

So for anyone you see...or IMAGINE that is abusing the system...no matter how bad it is...there is worse. Because some help is better than none and I was darn grateful to get it. However firing workers (who are so overworked and get paid very little...most of those people have degress some even masters...and make very little and have HUGE caseloads.) and slashing budgets and wanting to make drug test and all the other hoops and whistles you have to go through....well it makes little sense to me. How do you expect for a program to run effectively when you have under-paid/over-worked employees as that is a system BEGGING for corruption from inside and out.

 

When I first went back to work after I had my daughter I of course lost everything....despite having an job income...I did have a child to support...and it cost $400/month (at the time and that was cheep) to send my kid to daycare. It almost cost me more TO work than I was making. Funny huh. I wonder why so many folks think welfare is the better choice at times.

 

So I am anxious to hear anything anyone has to help solve this issue. Welfare was made to help hold folks over until they can pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Unfortunately the conditions and the budget cuts that are made in whatever name...succeed in only putting far more people into situations like I found myself that it does to curb the tide of corruption or folks taking advantage of the system. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater isn't really an effective way of curing the issue. I know many of our more conservative brethren will no doubt point to folks relying on charity of their fellows. Unfortunately charity comes in spits and spats and there is no guarantee of a generous heart right around the corner. That welfare check or food stamps...it may be pride-crushing...it may be over-used....heck it may be a horrible system....but it came every month, on time....and was accepted everywhere.

[Nintii]

As I've said before, I have family in Auckland (NZ) and in the Land of Oz and whenever their friends come to ZA - because I stay close to the airport - I normally get to pick them up -

when I can - and they stay over at my house for a few days then get their bearings and do whatever they came to do here.

Also, one of my housemates travels to NZ a few times every year and she is fairly - not totally but fairly clued up on issues in NZ ... so, what am I saying ?

I am a bit more familiair with what is going on over there than perhaps most posters.

 

From what I can tell, NZ is not the same as most other nations that provide for it's citizens and therefore Dweedle you are in error in assuming that you can compare NZ to

other countries ... in a "what is a good way to root out the lifestylers" type comparison.

For a start, this is a huge political bomb that you don't want to touch - if you could in any meaningful way - let's start with the the local indigenous people of NZ - The Maori -

who though only about 15% of the population makes up for 35% of the unemployment benefit recipients ... 42% of DPB (Domestic Purposes Benefir or welfare if it's easier),

not to mention over 51% of the prison population.

 

So how are you going to root out the "lifestylers" here ? ... it's a racial bomb that you're playing with.

They have been spoonfed ... and now many a young Maori girl who is pregnant and on welfare actually comes from a mother who started off that way ... what is supposed to help

people get on their feet has become a way of life ... lifestylers.

Suddenly your problem is not someone who smokes dope or gets sloshed it's a lot huger, it's political.

Sheesh that sounds a bit racist you might say ... yeah well if you're going to "exclude" them from the equation process when you begin your elimination the lifestylers then

you're going to be discriminating against the rest of the population and they're going to kill you.

 

So sorry pal, you're stuck, this all means that those who genuinely need it will not be able to move ahead in terms of getting "better" anything because people who could work and contribute to ease the burden wont work because it's easy money.

 

We also have a situation here where 5% of the population carries the rest in terms of income tax ... and many a rural mother and father gives their "blessing" to their daughter to fall pregnant because of the free grant they get ... and I foot the bill ... is it any wonder why in my lounge I have a projector feeding my cable TV onto my wall instead of a "normal"

TV (it's so much bigger and better anyway) .. update - because many a TV set has had a heel hurled at it in fury over some "new" way to con me out of more money to prop up the lifestylers.

They are here to stay.

 

I'm not trying to compare myself with anyone but I had a girlfriend whom I loved very dearly, who was autistic but had to go back "home" to her country because her family was "undersiege" from a government who had decided to to line their pockets with that countries money

... another form of lifestylers ...

I don't want to touch on or even go near the topic of the level of the medical treatment that she is receiving ... rest assured the expletives

would make you cringe.

Those in her nation who refused to work had all but stolen most of the resources ... Dweedle you have not yet gotten to that stage, so you have no idea of pressure.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Nintii

[Dweedle]

As I've said before, I have family in Auckland (NZ) and in the Land of Oz and whenever their friends come to ZA - because I stay close to the airport - I normally get to pick them up -

when I can - and they stay over at my house for a few days then get their bearings and do whatever they came to do here.

Also, one of my housemates travels to NZ a few times every year and she is fairly - not totally but fairly clued up on issues in NZ ... so, what am I saying ?

I am a bit more familiair with what is going on over there than perhaps most posters.

 

From what I can tell, NZ is not the same as most other nations that provide for it's citizens and therefore Dweedle you are in error in assuming that you can compare NZ to

other countries ... in a "what is a good way to root out the lifestylers" type comparison.

For a start, this is a huge political bomb that you don't want to touch - if you could in any meaningful way - let's start with the the local indigenous people of NZ - The Maori -

who though only about 15% of the population makes up for 35% of the unemployment benefit recipients ... 42% of DPB (Domestic Purposes Benefir or welfare if it's easier),

not to mention over 51% of the prison population.

 

So how are you going to root out the "lifestylers" here ? ... it's a racial bomb that you're playing with.

They have been spoonfed ... and now many a young Maori girl who is pregnant and on welfare actually comes from a mother who started off that way ... what is supposed to help

people get on their feet has become a way of life ... lifestylers.

Suddenly your problem is not someone who smokes dope or gets sloshed it's a lot huger, it's political.

Sheesh that sounds a bit racist you might say ... yeah well if you're going to "exclude" them from the equation process when you begin your elimination the lifestylers then

you're going to be discriminating against the rest of the population and they're going to kill you.

 

So sorry pal, you're stuck, this all means that those who genuinely need it will not be able to move ahead in terms of getting "better" anything because people who could work and contribute to ease the burden wont work because it's easy money.

 

We also have a situation here where 5% of the population carries the rest in terms of income tax ... and many a rural mother and father gives their "blessing" to their daughter to fall pregnant because of the free grant they get ... and I foot the bill ... is it any wonder why in my lounge I have a projector feeding my cable TV onto my wall instead of a "normal"

TV (it's so much bigger and better anyway) .. update - because many a TV set has had a heel hurled at it in fury over some "new" way to con me out of more money to prop up the lifestylers.

They are here to stay.

 

 

So, maybe a lot of the people who are lifestylers maybe are Maori, but imo that fact shouldnt even be apart of the debate because anyone who uses race to prove a point is racist, ignorant or lazy.*

 

People are people, regardless of skin colour or ancestry, race should NEVER EVER factor into anything political or anything else in general, we'll never have true unity in the world if people keep bringing up peoples race.

 

Anyway, I dont want to talk about peoples races because that is uncalled for and very immature, people are people and should never be classed into a race.

 

Actually, I just came up with an idea, would it be realistic to help those on benefits who are addicted to drugs/alcohol by offering interest free loans for rehab treatments and work rehibiliation? that sort of thing.. would that be at all possible or realistic?

 

This may be your opinion but I suggest you re-think it, because you are very close to getting a strike. Perhaps word your opinion a bit less inflammatory next time. -myrmaad

[Nintii]

Well i'm sorry you feel that way but facts are facts ... no racial slur of any sort was intended ... thing is NZ has a welfare problem and BECAUSE OF your political landscape

it will BE IMPOSSIBLE to root out the lifestylers ... that was my angle so live with it.

Stop hiding behind the race card as if that dissolves all and any mention of it in a discussion or debate ... mentioning race is one thing and being a racist is entirely different ...

don't you know that ?

 

NZ is unique in the regard to eliminating the lifestylers because of the political implications ... please read what I'm saying instead of using the common knee-jerk reaction.

Edited March 7, 2012 by myrmaad
Edited to change the use of staff color

[HeyYou]

It used to be having another baby would get you a 'raise'. That changed in the 80's or 90's.... Don't recall which......

 

What disgusts me is, DHS (the folks that administer welfare...) allows you to have SOME assets.... like, a home....... So there was the case of the family in Washington state, (I think) that was collecting welfare, yet living in a million dollar home......

 

Something that REALLY disturbs me though is, Alcoholism being ruled as a "disability"....... and folks being on Social Security because they are drunks......

 

I would like to know what planet that was on.

 

let me tell you a little story. When I was pregnant with my daughter I had to quit working for medical reasons. I was a manager of a bookstore at the time. I have a college education. Unfortunately though my health issues were in part pregnancy related...to get Social Security Disability takes a LONG LONG TIME. Then the Father of my child decided to leave the relationship (of 4 years that time around)...leaving me with no job, no money, no way to pay the rent...etc..etc. So...I move in with my Mom (actually passing my Father in and out the door the day I moved...as my parents were separating..awkward--so only one income there now.) Anyway....so I can't work and I swallow my pride and trot my butt down to the DHHR and try to get some help. Because I didn't qualify for any job training...or whatever training it was....I did NOT get a welfare check....like that bit of money to pay bills, etc. Thankfully I did qualify for food stamps...WHICH I COULD NOT USE TO BUY CIGS OR ALCOHOL...people that think that are misinformed.(Though at the time they were like paper money and could be traded to those criminal-minded for money or those things I guess.) So a pregnant woman....living with a single-income Mom (she made about $12/hr at the time which wasn't bad for her at her age..but she did not work a full 40 hrs and had to pay for her healthcare as she was not yet 65...and made too much to qualify for any assistance also.) We had rent and food and all that to pay...they gave me $112 a month in food stamps.

 

Yup....that is what I qualified for....$112 and a medical card.

 

I asked...in surprise....what if I wasn't living with my Mom...they replied...hey its a good thing your car is still titled to your Dad or you wouldn't get anything.

 

When I had my child...I got the food stamps doubled.

 

So for anyone you see...or IMAGINE that is abusing the system...no matter how bad it is...there is worse. Because some help is better than none and I was darn grateful to get it. However firing workers (who are so overworked and get paid very little...most of those people have degress some even masters...and make very little and have HUGE caseloads.) and slashing budgets and wanting to make drug test and all the other hoops and whistles you have to go through....well it makes little sense to me. How do you expect for a program to run effectively when you have under-paid/over-worked employees as that is a system BEGGING for corruption from inside and out.

 

When I first went back to work after I had my daughter I of course lost everything....despite having an job income...I did have a child to support...and it cost $400/month (at the time and that was cheep) to send my kid to daycare. It almost cost me more TO work than I was making. Funny huh. I wonder why so many folks think welfare is the better choice at times.

 

So I am anxious to hear anything anyone has to help solve this issue. Welfare was made to help hold folks over until they can pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Unfortunately the conditions and the budget cuts that are made in whatever name...succeed in only putting far more people into situations like I found myself that it does to curb the tide of corruption or folks taking advantage of the system. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater isn't really an effective way of curing the issue. I know many of our more conservative brethren will no doubt point to folks relying on charity of their fellows. Unfortunately charity comes in spits and spats and there is no guarantee of a generous heart right around the corner. That welfare check or food stamps...it may be pride-crushing...it may be over-used....heck it may be a horrible system....but it came every month, on time....and was accepted everywhere.

 

Welfare Family in million dollar home.

 

This planet.

 

The rules governing welfare, and who qualifies for what varies significantly from state to state. (it IS a state run program after all, just financed with a lot of federal money.) Used to be, if you were a single male, you couldn't get squat. Not even an insurance card, no matter how bad off you were. (direct experience here too..... I gave up walking for a while, couldn't work, had no insurance, but, the state wouldn't do a damn thing for me, not even food stamps.) If you didn't have children, (or, were pregnant......) you couldn't get anything either. Now today, better than 25% of the population of the county I live in, is collecting some flavor of government assistance. (yeah, the economy sucks here.....) Even while population is decreasing.......

 

I think one of the biggest things we could do to get folks off welfare/reduce fraud, would be to put americans back to work. Stop exporting our jobs, and PAYING the corporations to do it. Let's get america back to work, and a fair few of our problems will be reduced, or, disappear completely.