Racism In Skyrim

[Adipose]

It seems that a lot of player folks are worried about playing a racist Skyrim, and gearing mods to be politically correct. Near as I can tell, the cultures to be found in vanilla Skyrim ARE racist to a varying degree, sometimes extremely so. Frex, the Skyrim wide Nordic culture has produced folks who are not fond of Elves of any sort, segregate Argonians, and discriminate openly against Khajiit. Nords aren't shy about expressing those attitudes either. Redguards and Orcs are accepted, but grudgingly on occasion. Further, the Thalmor think they're better than everyone else and aren't reluctant to drive the point home...literally.

 

So, with all that in mind, I think that dialogue changing mods should be created that enable NPCs to fully express those attitudes. I can just see the reaction of a guard at Windhelm when an Argonian-Nord halfbreed walks through the gate: "Hey boy, where you think you're goin'? Get down to the docks where you belong. We don't let trash like you inside the walls, ya rotten little wh*%#'s get."

 

Someday I'd like to play an Argonian-Human or an Argonian-Elf cross and run the game to the end, getting thoroughly even with the Stormcloaks and other Windhelm Nords along way. When I say even, I mean REALLY even, with lots of wading in Stormcloak blood. However, before I did that I'd really like for there to be significant dialogue changes that reflect my background and position in society. Lol, it'd really be fun to run that hybrid character while implementing the mod that enables me to marry Elisif and become king of Skyrim as well as the victorious Dragonborn. However, that all needs serious dialogue changes in order to add depth and reality to the game.

[LeddBate]

While interesting, even if you were willing to do "text-only" (because recording the potentially hundreds of lines of dialogue in dozens of different voices would be beyond most modder's resources) utilizing a mod like fuz-ro-dah (did I get that right?) it would still probably be wayyyy too big of a mod.

 

And, well, there's also the fact that racism is a sensitive subject. Even though the races in Skyrim aren't real (technically, even Nords aren't "real"), people still tend to get thoroughly involved into such subject matter, even when the focus is a game set in an imaginary world.

 

However, if you aren't already familiar with Inconsequential NPCs, then this mod adds a lot of strife and stigma to daily Skyrim life. For example, with this mod installed, good luck getting into Windhelm without being hassled (or even out-right ejected) by the guards if you aren't a Nord. While visiting the Palace of Kings in Windhelm, I actually got a bit nauseated listening to the thanes at the banquet laughing it up with jokes about Argonians and Khajitts. So, yeah, I hear you. I wanted to walk into Windhelm as an Argonian, walk up to those nasty thanes and FUS-RO-DAH them right into Ulfric's lap.

[Adipose]

Ah, thanks for the info about INPC. It's been a long time since I ran that mod and I didn't keep it very long then. IIrc, it was pretty RAM hungry and kinda slowed things down. I've since made some upgrades so I'll take another look at it. Reads like it might add a grim, nasty dimension to Skyrim reality, thus making the game more interesting.

[LoneWolfEburg]

I also have my "More Racism in Windhelm", although its voice acting is mediocre (I made the mod for myself, mostly). Mind you, someone in the comments liked the voice of a character...

[Adipose]

Pursuing this topic a bit farther, one ought to consider the Dunmer-Argonian relationship. IIrc, the Dunmer held the Argonians in bondage until the great uprising, at which time a LOT of Dunmer blood was shed, with, possibly, some Great Houses being wiped out...or nearly so. Given that situation, I find it unlikely that Dark Elves and Argonians would get along at all. There are some situations that just don't lend themselves to peaceful solutions.

[MistaBusy]

Definitely a big fan of this idea.... Just recently, (before a nephew screwed my load order), I was walking through Whiterun as a female Redguard. I dropped a couple things by skyforge, and before I could even get to Dragonsreach a guard had stopped me to harass me about dropping a dagger... After a surprisingly lengthy conversation with said guard, he gave me the ultimatium of either go to jail there, or he will spread bad words about me. I called his bluff, and upon leaving the conversation he hit me with a +20 bounty added.. I have NEVER seen this before, but as my girlfriend is black and an elderscrolls lover as well, she was a bit taken back by this. Of course its just a game, but the real world juxtapose of racism in Skyrim is a very interesting feature.

[lonewanderer0804]

neat idea i like it alot, but something to note though beast races cannot create offspring with men and mer due to the biology of agornians and khajiits. so that wouldn't be on the table. but i could see the wilndhelm guards harrassing a half-nord half- altmer or half dunmer man or woman walking into the city.

[DavidAllen124]

Racism, as well as other social issues, have been part of Elder Scrolls for a very long time. IIRC, Oblivion is the only installment of the main series that it isn't a significant issue to some degree. One of the issues I've had is mostly it's something that's "mentioned" but not really executed to a large extent. For example, as DB you are aware that Dunmer, Argonians, and Khajeet to varying degrees are, supposed to be unwelcome in certain places. Yet, you go about your business in those places as if that predjudice didn't exist. I understand it would break certain quests to actually STOP you - but maybe someone would "say" something about it? OR their's something in the story line that this policy ends, or there's some compelling reason you are an exception?

[Adipose]

Playing as an Argonian making the Alternate start in Windhelm, I ran into pretty overt attitude when I attempted to leave the docks and go up the stairs into the city proper. I ran into a guard who told me in no uncertain terms to get back where I belonged. That was an interesting experience. Since then I've gone up the stairs and been able to loot the barrels with no problem, so I wonder if someone did a bit of tinkering to prevent that kind of confrontation.

[rarjed]

These interactions were much more possible in Morrowind modding seeing as 'dialogue' into that game didn't really have voice acting. Makes me wonder what kind of potential worldbuilding we could have if there was a modern alternative to VA for everything (because screw reading pages of typed dialogue.) That being said, the whole "vvardenfell dunmer hate the player dunmer because they're not from vvardenfell" was a massive cop-out imo and and excuse to keep racial interactions relatively the same in the vanilla game

 

It's like for example, if I'm a khajiit, I want to be driven to thievery because no one will trade with me, instead of choosing thievery because I'm metagaming and khajiit have the levels for it

 

But yeah, inpc does a great job but it's hugely script and RAM heavy - just the nature of the sort of thing it's trying to do I guess. Hopefully TESVI (if we're alive to see it :laugh: ) will have a better engine for this sort of stuff

It's like, if I'm a khajiit, I want to be driven to thievery because no one will trade with me, instead of choosing thievery because I'm metagaming and khajiit have the levels for it