Does Creation Club signal the end of player-made mods in future Bethesda games?

[davidwalshireland]

You can see the main issues already...

Compatibility issues between player made mods and Creation Club DLC

Competition ($) issues between player made mods and Creation Club DLC

Eg competition between the new survival mode and Frostfall etc

Lets presume that eventually Creation Club will have a wide variety of real content mods similar to what we have today in player made mods here on Nexus

(ie not just skins etc)...

How much will it cost you to play a Creation Club modded game?

I run 60+ player made mods as a minimum; many players run many more....

So how much will it cost you to have the Skyrim you want to play?

Edited September 28, 2017 by davidwalshireland

[mcguffin]

no

[WastelandAssassin]

In my opinion , not a fat chance in hell

 

now to explain . if you look at the reception of the CC content so far , there hasn't really been a single "mod" on CC with a proper value proposition

even the new survival mode , that does include some features , has a price tag of 8$ , which is probably way too much for what it's worth

and if you infer from what we got so far , getting a decent DLC sized quest mod will probably launch with a 40$ price tag or something like this

I obviously hope I'm wrong here , and that it's just been some misunderstanding with the pricing so far , but I highly doubt it

 

now , with the rather negative reception for CC so far , I really doubt Bethesda will even consider not releasing official mod support (like the Creation Kit or GECK) for their future games

without these , and with the assumption that CC reception will continue to be rather negative , we can expect their games to be forgotten a month after release , rather than staying in the spotlight for so many years

without mods , Skyrim would never have been so popular after so many years , and there is no way that Bethesda doesn't figure it out

 

If they opt to create more DLC packs (the good ones , like Shivering Isles , Dragonborn or Far Harbor) , people will continue to support them and buy their content

if they opt to release single weapons\armors for 3-5$ each , and claim this is good value for their money , people will probably just spit in their general direction , and move on

 

and as for compatibility between CC content and mods , this will be a problem , though it seems like people are really into fixing and improving CC content

just look at the influx of FO4 mods regarding CC content , with better textures or better integration , new animations and such

and that's for those few who actually purchased this content

[nightscrawl]

 

You can see the main issues already...

Compatibility issues between player made mods and Creation Club DLC

Competition ($) issues between player made mods and Creation Club DLC

Eg competition between the new survival mode and Frostfall etc

Lets presume that eventually Creation Club will have a wide variety of real content mods similar to what we have today in player made mods here on Nexus

(ie not just skins etc)...

How much will it cost you to play a Creation Club modded game?

I run 60+ player made mods as a minimum; many players run many more....

So how much will it cost you to have the Skyrim you want to play?

 

 

Compatibility? While a valid issue, that's a concern with any combination of mods. Some mods are dependent on authors to make patches, or for players to know how to use TESEdit/SSEdit to make them, which isn't guaranteed for every player.

 

Competition? Considering that the vast majority of mods are currently free, no, I don't think that competition will be a factor. Not all mod authors will want to join the Creation Club, as that necessarily means they are subjected to limitations by Bethesda. Creative freedom is important to many creators. Some may also want to keep it as strictly a hobby; once you agree to a financial contract with Bethesda, you are bound to that, which means you have certain responsibilities and obligations that you did not have when it was still just a hobby. A hobbiest can say, "I'm feeling burned out with modding right now, so I think I'll go hang with the family," but a person who takes on this contract can not, because it is essentially a job.

 

The primary audience that the CC benefits are PS4 users; PC and Xbone users still have their staple of free mods. Unless Bethesda can put out unique content not available anywhere else, like story DLC, the competition factor won't be too much of an issue.

 

Most of the negative comments I read concerning the new Survival Mode mentioned a single issue: increased carry capacity. The possibility of that was a huge turnoff for many users. Frostfall doesn't do that. But, you know, competition isn't necessarily a bad thing in that regard. It's nice, from a user perspective, to be able to choose from different options. There are a ton of different texture mods, each adding their own style to the game; players have that freedom to choose how they want their Skyrim to look.

 

In this case, the cost, along with the features of the mod itself, will also be a factor. Do I go with Frostfall, which is free and has these features, OR do I go with Survival Mode, which is not free, and has these other features?

 

 

I personally have no interest in buying anything other than story content. I don't need to add a lot to my game.

[CosmicArrow]

 

 

You can see the main issues already...

Compatibility issues between player made mods and Creation Club DLC

Competition ($) issues between player made mods and Creation Club DLC

Eg competition between the new survival mode and Frostfall etc

Lets presume that eventually Creation Club will have a wide variety of real content mods similar to what we have today in player made mods here on Nexus

(ie not just skins etc)...

How much will it cost you to play a Creation Club modded game?

I run 60+ player made mods as a minimum; many players run many more....

So how much will it cost you to have the Skyrim you want to play?

 

 

Compatibility? While a valid issue, that's a concern with any combination of mods. Some mods are dependent on authors to make patches, or for players to know how to use TESEdit/SSEdit to make them, which isn't guaranteed for every player.

 

Competition? Considering that the vast majority of mods are currently free, no, I don't think that competition will be a factor. Not all mod authors will want to join the Creation Club, as that necessarily means they are subjected to limitations by Bethesda. Creative freedom is important to many creators. Some may also want to keep it as strictly a hobby; once you agree to a financial contract with Bethesda, you are bound to that, which means you have certain responsibilities and obligations that you did not have when it was still just a hobby. A hobbiest can say, "I'm feeling burned out with modding right now, so I think I'll go hang with the family," but a person who takes on this contract can not, because it is essentially a job.

 

The primary audience that the CC benefits are PS4 users; PC and Xbone users still have their staple of free mods. Unless Bethesda can put out unique content not available anywhere else, like story DLC, the competition factor won't be too much of an issue.

 

Most of the negative comments I read concerning the new Survival Mode mentioned a single issue: increased carry capacity. The possibility of that was a huge turnoff for many users. Frostfall doesn't do that. But, you know, competition isn't necessarily a bad thing in that regard. It's nice, from a user perspective, to be able to choose from different options. There are a ton of different texture mods, each adding their own style to the game; players have that freedom to choose how they want their Skyrim to look.

 

In this case, the cost, along with the features of the mod itself, will also be a factor. Do I go with Frostfall, which is free and has these features, OR do I go with Survival Mode, which is not free, and has these other features?

 

 

I personally have no interest in buying anything other than story content. I don't need to add a lot to my game.

 

 

The problem is and always has been one of value. Quality control was a problem with the 2015 iteration of paid mods and Bethesda seems to have answered to some of it but it can never be fully assured, especially since both FO4 and Skyrim were left with so many bugs that Arthmoor saw fit to fix. Right now the $2 dollar shotgun in FO4 has a pretty noticeable bug and has yet to be fixed. Maximum quality for mods may be worth money but the question is how much. This is where Beth really screwed up with CC and people complaining about CC were right to worry about what items would be in it and for how much. People have played with the new survival mode and it does have some perks like being more stable with Skyrim but it has an $8 price tag with only $7.50 and $15 credit packs to purchase it if you don't have at least 50 credits in your balance to begin with. It mirrors a lot of the scummy business tactics we see in many AAA and mobile games today and it begs the question how will this affect future releases once CC is more established. Will we see skill point packs or loot boxes being sold in CC with FO5 or TES6 being gimped in this regard? Will a modder get a cease and desist order for making a mod that adds more skill points or for creating their own survival mod? Companies mirror each other within their respective industries all the time and other game devs and publishers have been pushing for microtransactions in single player games while gimping the base game to entice their players to purchase virtual currency, skill points and whatnot. I saw this happen personally in the last Deus Ex game.

 

The value and quality of future Beth releases is now a legitimate argument given how they launched CC. The only positive from this is it might be damaging enough to warrant serious competition from a competitor.

[davidwalshireland]

Just to clarify, when I mention 'competition' I mean that free mods are competition to Creation Club paid DLC

For example Frostfall is competition for Survival Mode

 

If I were a shopkeeper I would not want some guy in the corner offering free groceries

 

The significance of compatibility issues is this...

Many players who use player-made mods may be reluctant to buy Creation Club DLC for fear of compatibility issues

Bethesda will know this is the case and thus may reason that anything that hinders players buying Creation Club DLC is bad for their business

 

I dont see these issues becoming critical problems for Skyrim players...

But as I say in my title they may have a big effect on future Bethesda games

It is possible there will be no general release of a Creation Kit for TES6

They may only supply tools to subcontractors

Edited September 29, 2017 by davidwalshireland

[WastelandAssassin]

again , Bethesda should really know by now how substantial modding is for their games , and understand that this is the lifeline of their games

even if CC content was brilliant , and with a great value proposition , I still don't see Bethesda destroying the normal modding scene , and abandoning the release of a mod creation kit for future games

and since right now , CC is barely excusable , and with the rather negative reaction it got , I highly doubt they would be so bold as to do something so drastic

 

only time will really tell what happens

but we can really see how mods impact these games , especially since many of the improvements between games began with mods

so aside from giving these games more lifetime and relevance , they also serve to show Bethesda what the community wishes to see added or fixed in their games (though they still don't really fix their games)

 

all in all , I still think that Bethesda is making enough money from the existence of mods , with the ability to stay relevant for years after initial release

and I doubt that CC content will ever be enough to shadow this , and so they would be rather silly to remove the modability for which their games are praised for

but only time will really tell......

[skydragonsky]

Yes, TES 6 will come with an integrated microtransaction system. The "vocal" Bethesda community usually only refers to the subset players - those who play on PC - and not even nearly all of them. Unfortunately, PC player are just a vocal minority. The far majority plays on consoles and doesn't care.

 

 

all in all , I still think that Bethesda is making enough money from the existence of mods , with the ability to stay relevant for years after initial release

and I doubt that CC content will ever be enough to shadow this , and so they would be rather silly to remove the modability for which their games are praised for

but only time will really tell......

There is no such thing as "enough money", it's a publicly traded company. It is their obligation to the shareholders to increase profits. Bethesda will do whatever necessary to maximize profits. If replacing mods by microtransactions will lead to an increase in revenue, they wont release a easily moddable TES6.

[WastelandAssassin]

Yes, TES 6 will come with an integrated microtransaction system. The "vocal" Bethesda community usually only refers to the subset players - those who play on PC - and not even nearly all of them. Unfortunately, PC player are just a vocal minority. The far majority plays on consoles and doesn't care.

 

 

all in all , I still think that Bethesda is making enough money from the existence of mods , with the ability to stay relevant for years after initial release

and I doubt that CC content will ever be enough to shadow this , and so they would be rather silly to remove the modability for which their games are praised for

but only time will really tell......

There is no such thing as "enough money", it's a publicly traded company. It is their obligation to the shareholders to increase profits. Bethesda will do whatever necessary to maximize profits. If replacing mods by microtransactions will lead to an increase in revenue, they wont release a easily moddable TES6.

 

I don't doubt that they will take a route that leads to maximum profit

what I do doubt is whether removing modding support and going full CC will increase profits

I wouldn't call CC content as microtransactions , but it may be so in the future , if included into the game from day one

 

the thing about Bethesda games is that a large portion of sales can come months after the initial release , and purchases are still being made years after release

with the culture of pre orders , day one embargoes and limiting review copies , day one sales probably won't differ whether or not Bethesda opts to remove modding support and go for CC content or such (unless they are stupid enough to announce this in advance)

however , ones reviews start coming , such things will surely damage future sales of these games , in ways that may end up costing more than they could ever make with this content

again , this is something that we don't have any figures for , as there are still only a few games going this route , but I do believe we will see the effects of such business practices even in the near future (keep an eye on the release of Shadow of War for example , and let's see if it's business practices will truly harm it's initial sales)

[metaphorset]

Maybe.

 

Pretty much the same discussion as in the FO4 forum. In the end it's not a decision Bethesda Game Studios is going to make, at least not single-handed. Zenimax is involved into it, as well as the stockholders. For simplicity's sake let's call them "they/their/them".

 

Regarding sales, about 70 to 80% of the money from Skyrim as well as from Fallout 4 was made by console sales. That's "their" interest. It's money, not good games - or even decent games anymore.

On the other hand "they" got a lot of bad reviews on Steam over the Paid Mods debacle and the trend continues with microtransaction club. A huge amount of backlash comes from PC Gamers alone, which is totally understandable.

 

Compared to other Distributors "they" have time on their side. If "their" distribution model would be more like what EA and Ubisoft do (have a half-arsed but highly successful franchise and distribute at least one new game every year) "they" might have a bigger problem. But releasing a major title every 5 to 10 years... in this period a whole new gamer generation grows up and is happy with whatever bone "they" throw at them. The old fans... ? Who cares.

My prediction goes like this: We might still get mods, but not in the way we used to get them with the last games. The age of the script extender might come to an end and maybe there will be other restrictions like file sizes. You can't get everyone happy but you can get everyone to stfu by presenting a compromise. And we all know that compromises rarely result in bigger portions, right?

 

So even if Good Guy Todd talks about the huge success and how the modding community had a huge part in it, he and his merry band of 100 or what not nice guys can't change a thing, because it's not their decision (alone). And as long as people buy (or even pre-order) the next round, it does not matter what we think or do.