WIPs

[6Domino6]

I don't think WIP is a bad thing...Personally I believe that most mods are WIPs because they release an initial version of something to get feedback from players. I finish a good chunk of my mods before I feel good releasing them (ie I wouldn't release a house mod with no furniture and no npcs if they are planned to be added). But for some mods adding new things in new versions is a good way to learn from things you may have overlooked in the past. On one of my mods a person contacted me to ask if the NPCs respawned their inventories or just their gold and what they sold...and I realized I had left something out (had forgotten to complete their loot lists). So I fixed all of the NPCs before re-releasing it.

 

WIPs are more appealing to me if the mod is a good chunk along because that typically means they are releasing it to get feedback.

[nivea]

If I went by that logic then most my larger clothing mods would never be released, I am working on a Cloak mod that has many different cloaks in it. But I want to add more as I go that makes the mod not finished and thus a WIP, so I should not release any of the mod until I am finally happy and finished 20 different cloaks?

[jet4571]

No a WIP is pre-beta stages. For a house mod it could be the walls and floors laid out with nothing else. when you have it finished enough that it can be used and upload then it is beta and you use version and not WIP. For clothing and armor mods WIP is when it is in the modeling program and cannot be used in the game. Once it gets to the stage that it is in the game and other people are using it then it is no longer a WIP but beta. Beta signifies that it is not finished and still being worked on but it is useable. beta's are used for feedback and testing purposes by other people.

 

WIP is another term for Alpha but used when showcasing what you are making.

[nivea]

I guess I feel Beta and WIP are pretty much the same thing, neither are a finished product and both still need work done.

Also have to take into account your use of WIP is not the same as someone elses use of WIP, to me WIP means your work is in progress. Beta means your work is in progress so use at your own risk because your testing my wip.

 

Perhaps that is not right, but that is how I have always been lead to believe.

 

 

I also believe strongly if your showing pictures of your WIP and intend to release it, it is better for you to release somthing then nothing ever.

Edited March 15, 2012 by nivea

[Rennn]

I agree with your sentiment, but in pratice some mods just work best if there's an initial WIP version. For example, with my True Groundcover mod (WIP), I posted an initial release so that I can get feedback on performance as the mod progresses. It's supposed to run with a relatively low framerate drop, and I want as much feeback as possible. If the update drops someone by fifteen frames per second, I want to know about it so that I can immediately go back to optimize and reduce it.

 

Similarly, some mods are completely functional when they're half done. Not to blatantly make excuses for myself, but my heavy WIP that lets you enter buildings through various sneaky areas is completely functional in the small areas that I've finished so far. Likewise, WIP armors for body mods are often released in many files, one for each converted armor set, and each set is functional of course, but the overall mod remains a WIP since not all sets are done. Many mods can be used perfectly well by rabid fans when they're only half done, and it'd be disappointing in my opinion to find out that you have to wait a couple months for a mod that sounds finished in many ways already.

[BigKevSexyMan]

I don't think it really matters. If someone feels they should put WIP in their mod, let them. It's their mod. They could put shama-kuka-lata in every mod they release if they wanted. Isn't this really just venting and imposing your own pet peeves?

[mousehands]

Of my three mods, two I released finished, and one is a released WIP.

 

In many cases it does make sense to wait for a mod to be finished before releasing it, and makes no sense whatsoever for a WIP release. Can you imagine how silly it would have been had I released a "WIP" for my lockpicks or "advanced glass armor" mods? Both were trivial little things, and a WIP basically would have been an unusable, half-arsed piece of junk!

 

Dovahheim, on the other hand, makes sense as a WIP. What's there is perfectly usable as-is -- there's a quest, after which some bandits go away and some guards appear, and ostensibly the player now "owns" a small (former) bandit camp. Not all that exciting, true, but it's usable. Future updates will add on to this in progressive, well-defined stages ("episodes"), each of which will build on the previous work but otherwise be fully standalone. So it's a WIP in the sense that there's still a lot more work I have to do on it, but at the same time it makes sense to release things in stages like this because, well, it's fully usable already.

 

Why wait until the very end when I can put WIP releases out now, drumming up support and excitement and getting feedback that will ultimately lead to a much better finished product?

 

Well there you go, your mod isn't WIP. A standalone mod is not a work in progress. The fact that additional, complementary material does not constitute the initial work being a work in progress. This is like saying TESIV was a work in progress because they released downloadable content afterwards. I would never have downloaded your mod if I saw WIP on it. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have either, so you aren't doing yourself any favours by labelling it thus.

[mousehands]

I don't think it really matters. If someone feels they should put WIP in their mod, let them. It's their mod. They could put shama-kuka-lata in every mod they release if they wanted. Isn't this really just venting and imposing your own pet peeves?

 

Yes, if someone feels they should put WIP in their mod, I'm not in a position to stop them. However, it does more good than harm to offer constructive criticism, which was my intention, not to let out my 'pet peeves'. I already received a strike for doing that a couple of weeks ago.

 

Unfinished material usually remains that way. Modders are often so eager to release something they don't cross the finishing line and cut corners, so they aren't doing themselves any favours. Working in web for years has taught me that sites with 'under construction' or 'coming soon...' either usually don't get finished or turn potential customers away in droves. The golden rule, for your own reputation and integrity is 'If it's not finished, don't release it'. Similarly, labelling something as 'WIP' when it is finished, and the modder is looking for feedback and the generosity of testers would be misleading. 'Beta', for example, would be a better label, for starters, there is more then one way of indicating this. While the unfinished mods may well be improved or actually finished at a later date, the unfortunate truth for the modder is that they are using a web page to release the mod: 'WIP' is therefore the equivalent of saying 'under construction'.

 

A good example of a mod that (as far as I recall) was never labelled WIP was the Apachii Goddess Store. The author released it as a fully operating standalone mod, that worked. She simply added more content to it in later versions. Appropriately enough, she didn't jeopardise its popularity by labelling it WIP.

 

http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=13437

 

This is really just my 10p suggestion that we would all be helping each other out if we refrained from releasing unfinished material and labelled mods appropriately (so we don't mislead).

[Ghogiel]

WIP ( Wipz if you are getting old ) is a thread designation imo. for releases you have Alpha or pre version 1 point release Beta, by definition they are wip any way..

[SinderionsBones]

Maybe it's just a modding enthusiast quirk, but in this(relatively) early time in the life of the creation kit, when new stuff and new creative solutions are being constantly tossed out, I'd MUCH rather have a proof of concept alpha out than have to wait weeks/months for them to polish it.

 

That being said, yeah WIP in the title seems silly. If you put it up, you're putting it up for testing, whether you know it or not. There's no such thing as "Finished" anyways. The state of Finished is at the authors discretion, and can be retracted at a moments notice. Skyrim.esm isn't finished, the game engine isn't finished, it's just at a very advanced point of stable lol, it was released and we all payed sixty bucks for it and it's not finished. If you're putting a mod up, put it up when it's 'done' or when there's at least something meaningful for the player. Name it the name it's named. Worst that will happen is some inconsiderate ppl will whine for you not putting WIP in the title when it's not 100% and getting their hopes up. Seen plenty of that.

 

Catch 22.

 

Also, nexus is a place to put modding files. Do we need to find alternate places to store them for community input during development? I don't think you were arguing entirely against imperfect mods, but the file and comments systems for uploaded files is tailor made for getting input from the masses from the point where the mod is usable to it's more polished versions. A tiny tiny fraction of the people that browse the files come to this forum. That's just the way it is.

 

/ramble