Lucien Lachance doesn't wear the Black Hand Robe

[BlackHole11]

The first time he shows up, he's not wearing the Black Hand Robe, when I click on him it says (000177d2), not (0002fd77)

 

I have to type

 

- prid 177d2

- removeitem 229aa 1

 

or he will just wear a Dark Green Shirt

 

 

EDIT: I uploaded the findings of formID finder
https://imgur.com/a/M0rof

EDIT 2: If I try to pickpocket Lucien Lachance, this is what I can see of his inventory (yet formID says he doesn't have a Black Hand Robe)
https://imgur.com/a/nVUEw

EDIT 3: the modlist in Wrye Bash:
https://imgur.com/a/NKFYs

EDIT 4: TESEDIT findings for Lucien Lachance as in "Oblivion.esm -> Non-player characters"
https://imgur.com/a/ufdO8

Edited November 22, 2017 by BlackHole11

[CakeeMaster]

Could you add a picture of the lower part of the Dark01Knife quest page in TES4Edit?

[Striker879]

Continuation from the Bevilex' mod list mod comments discussion ...

 

Just to clarify, my 'solution' wasn't a 'scripted' solution. It is simply a console command workaround.

 

Your use of the term 'scripted' got me thinking though, and I believe I know why FormID Finder and TES4Edit aren't showing any mod touching Lucien (which is supported by the refID you posted ... if a mod ESP was affecting him that refID would have something other than 00 as the first two digits).

 

What I believe is happening is you have a mod in your load order that uses a script to disable the original Lucien (who has baseID/formID 000224ed and refID 0002fd77 ... baseID is the parent object of the reference object you see in the game) and then using the script places a new Lucien in the game. It probably still uses the original baseID as parent, or possibly not ... I'm no scripter so I can't say for certain how you would/could go about that.

 

So what I'm saying is the mod's script disables Lucien refID 0002fd77 and then creates a new Lucien who has refID 000177d2. If the mod disabled the original Lucien and then created a new one using the Construction Set and an ESP, his new refID would start with the first two digits of that mod's position in your load order (so if it was fifth down in your load order his refID would be 050177d2).

 

All this doesn't get any closer to resolving your situation in a more 'non-workaround' way. Only way I know to identify which mod is load each of your mods in the CS and examine each of their scripts looking for one that touches Lucien ... have fun doing that (just kidding ... not something I'd be willing to do if my 'workaround' solution worked).

[CakeeMaster]

Continuation from the Bevilex' mod list mod comments discussion ...

 

Just to clarify, my 'solution' wasn't a 'scripted' solution. It is simply a console command workaround.

 

Your use of the term 'scripted' got me thinking though, and I believe I know why FormID Finder and TES4Edit aren't showing any mod touching Lucien (which is supported by the refID you posted ... if a mod ESP was affecting him that refID would have something other than 00 as the first two digits).

 

What I believe is happening is you have a mod in your load order that uses a script to disable the original Lucien (who has baseID/formID 000224ed and refID 0002fd77 ... baseID is the parent object of the reference object you see in the game) and then using the script places a new Lucien in the game. It probably still uses the original baseID as parent, or possibly not ... I'm no scripter so I can't say for certain how you would/could go about that.

 

So what I'm saying is the mod's script disables Lucien refID 0002fd77 and then creates a new Lucien who has refID 000177d2. If the mod disabled the original Lucien and then created a new one using the Construction Set and an ESP, his new refID would start with the first two digits of that mod's position in your load order (so if it was fifth down in your load order his refID would be 050177d2).

 

All this doesn't get any closer to resolving your situation in a more 'non-workaround' way. Only way I know to identify which mod is load each of your mods in the CS and examine each of their scripts looking for one that touches Lucien ... have fun doing that (just kidding ... not something I'd be willing to do if my 'workaround' solution worked).

Actually, afaik Lucien 2fd77 and Lucien 177d2 are both present in the vanilla game, they are just used at different times in the DB quest line.

Lucien 177d2 is the one which appears first (at the start of the quest line).

They both use the same baseID which means they're basically the same.

As for why FormID Finder won't show the Black Hand robes, as stated in the FormID Finder modpage - "If the object is an NPC/Creature with equipped inventory, the scroll will also document the information for the equipped inventory."

Since the Black Hand robe is not equipped, FormID Finder doesn't include it.

I do however agree that this bug is most likely caused by a script (I think it might possibly be caused by an AI Package too, but I'm not sure).

[Striker879]

Well that got me poking through the CS ... turns out there are actually three Lucien references used in the game. Lucien refID 177d2 is found in the DarkBrotherhoodHoldingPen (which is located roughly half way between Nenyond Twyll and Nisin Cave but far under the playing surface), refID 2fd77 is located in Fort Farragut and refID 34b0 is located just inside the Anvil city gate (Anvil World, Anvil Exterior 07). Looks like the UESP Wiki missed one.

 

As far as I could tell the Lucien you first meet is refID 177d2, refID 2fd77 is the Lucien you meet at Fort Farragut a the start of The Purification quest. What is a bit of a mystery is the purpose of the third Lucien refID 34b0, which is the only one that doesn't use the baseID 244ed as a parent (it uses the 34af parent). At no point (as far as I know) will you ever meet up with the refID 34b0 Lucien (you are sent to Anvil by the Farragut Lucien but told to meet him at Applewatch). In looking through the scripts looking for clues I saw a lot of commented out stuff from when they were working on getting the quests to work correctly ... maybe the 34af/34b0 Lucien is a leftover from their WIP on the DB questline.

 

In any case looks like my theory of a mod's script mucking things up wasn't very good (in as far as the refID 177d2 Lucien goes ... he's as vanilla as they come).

[BlackHole11]

As for why FormID Finder won't show the Black Hand robes, as stated in the FormID Finder modpage - "If the object is an NPC/Creature with equipped inventory, the scroll will also document the information for the equipped inventory."

 

Yes that's why, FormID only shows the equipped items - weak tool

 

Anyways, I started a new game because I removed other mods, ULs, etc. ; now I want to test if it was a random bug or a script bug, so is this the right way to test? :

 

EDIT: I get getStage --> "20.00" or something with this method, and Lucien Lachance doesn't spawn to me

UPDATE: I restarted the game, and I killed a beggar at the waterfront, I slept in the Abandoned Shacks, and guess what.. Lucien Lachance showed up with the peasant outfit.. (I didnt load your mod of course Cake-masta)

prid 177d2
MoveTo Player

btw, I remembered that I had deleted all of my saves from my first playthrough manually (not with the game interface), I just deleted the "Saves" folder, could that have caused anything with Lucien Lachance?

 

 

Could you add a picture of the lower part of the Dark01Knife quest page in TES4Edit?

 

It was simply the location of Lucien Lachance at the time (Two Sisters Inn, Skingrad)

 

btw, your lil esp also modifies "Calc min = 1" in "ACBS Configuration", what's that for? vanilla is 0

Edited November 23, 2017 by BlackHole11

[CakeeMaster]

 

As for why FormID Finder won't show the Black Hand robes, as stated in the FormID Finder modpage - "If the object is an NPC/Creature with equipped inventory, the scroll will also document the information for the equipped inventory."

 

Yes that's why, FormID only shows the equipped items - weak tool

 

Anyways, I started a new game because I removed other mods, ULs, etc. ; now I want to test if it was a random bug or a script bug, so is this the right way to test? :

 

EDIT: I get getStage --> "20.00" or something with this method, and Lucien Lachance doesn't spawn to me

UPDATE: I restarted the game, and I killed a beggar at the waterfront, I slept in the Abandoned Shacks, and guess what.. Lucien Lachance showed up with the peasant outfit.. (I didnt load your mod of course Cake-masta)

prid 177d2
MoveTo Player

btw, I remembered that I had deleted all of my saves from my first playthrough manually (not with the game interface), I just deleted the "Saves" folder, could that have caused anything with Lucien Lachance?

 

 

Could you add a picture of the lower part of the Dark01Knife quest page in TES4Edit?

 

It was simply the location of Lucien Lachance at the time (Two Sisters Inn, Skingrad)

 

btw, your lil esp also modifies "Calc min = 1" in "ACBS Configuration", what's that for? vanilla is 0

 

The way you tested it on a new game was fine.

As for "Calc min = 1": I edited it by accident (basically in the CS if you open an NPC's settings there is a small check box titled "PC Level Offset", it was off for Lucien, I accidentally pressed it which caused Calc min to change from 0 to the default 1. However, I disabled that check box afterwards which means the game ignores that value for Lucien anyway, so it doesn't matter.)

 

Btw, the reason I asked you to add a picture of the lower part is that the 'referenced by' tab for Lucien Lachance in your pictures shows that the bashed patch references him in the Dark01Knife quest page.

This is interesting since this means that some merged mod in your load order changes that quest somehow, in a way that references Lucien.

I'm willing to bet that if you find which mod it is, you'll be able to find the source of the bug.

[BlackHole11]

I know, but I had checked with TESEdit and the only mod merged in the bashed patch that alters the DB questline is "Colored Quests", which alters the icon only

 

when you have time why dont you pack me another .esp with the vanilla "Calc min" for another small bounty

Edited November 23, 2017 by BlackHole11

[Tiawar]

If you are using EngineBugFixes then this is a side effect of the EvaluateEquipmentPatch. You can check the readme file to see what the patch tries to do and why Lucien is a special case. We also talked about this problem in the comment section of EngineBugFixes.

Right now you have three options:

1) Remove the extra clothes in his inventory. He's never going to wear them anyway unless you remove the robe.
2) Give the black hand robe a proper value so equipment evaluation will not prefer his other clothes. A value of 50 should do.
3) If you don't want to modify anything and don't need the modified equipment evaluation behavior from the patch either then simply disable it by setting bInstallEvaluateEquipmentPatch to 0 in the ini file.

The next version of EBF will have an option the exclude specific actors from the patch and an entry for Lucien Lachance will be in the default ini file.

[BlackHole11]

If you are using EngineBugFixes then this is a side effect of the EvaluateEquipmentPatch. You can check the readme file to see what the patch tries to do and why Lucien is a special case. We also talked about this problem in the comment section of EngineBugFixes.

 

Right now you have three options:

 

1) Remove the extra clothes in his inventory. He's never going to wear them anyway unless you remove the robe.

2) Give the black hand robe a proper value so equipment evaluation will not prefer his other clothes. A value of 50 should do.

3) If you don't want to modify anything and don't need the modified equipment evaluation behavior from the patch either then simply disable it by setting bInstallEvaluateEquipmentPatch to 0 in the ini file.

 

The next version of EBF will have an option the exclude specific actors from the patch and an entry for Lucien Lachance will be in the default ini file.

 

It was under the public nose the whole time, but I couldn't find it googling; anyway thanks a 1000s for telling us about the bug Tiawar;

 

I did read the description of the EvaluateEquipmentPatch in the readme.txt, but in more practical terms, say I disabled it, what would the worst and most visible NPC cases be in game?

Edited November 23, 2017 by BlackHole11