From where does prosperity come from

[kvnchrist]

I've heard this from just about every group imaginable and from each of those groups come a different answer.

 

Some say freedom. some say work ethic. some say fairness and equality. Some say lack of government involvement and others say the lack thereof.

 

Is it the government that needs to correct what is fundamental flawed with society or should the markets provide that correction?

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Whatever the system is, game the hell out of it. That's where wealth comes from (which is what I assume you mean by prosperity).

[Deleted472477User]

I also assume you mean wealth, as opposed to abundance, which I look at as meaning you always have enough, monetary and non-monetary, to be happy and well in your life.

 

I think it can come from any of those sources. I prefer it to come with the least amount of harm to others as possible. By harm, I mean something I deliberately do or cause to further my own profits at the expense of others. For example, a company CEO who outsources a call center supplying thousands of jobs here to a foreign country just so he can be wealthier, not because the company was in danger of folding altogether.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

The problem with that is that for a traded company, once you take investor money you are legally beholden to them to get the greatest return, i.e. make the most money, as you are able. Keeping a more expensive American call center when you could open a cheaper one offshore and pocket the savings is not good business, not good for the company, not good for the shareholders, and as a CEO you will soon find yourself fired and mired in lawsuits in order to recover the money those investors should have made, had you made the correct business decision.

[Deleted472477User]

The problem with that is that for a traded company, once you take investor money you are legally beholden to them to get the greatest return, i.e. make the most money, as you are able. Keeping a more expensive American call center when you could open a cheaper one offshore and pocket the savings is not good business, not good for the company, not good for the shareholders, and as a CEO you will soon find yourself fired and mired in lawsuits in order to recover the money those investors should have made, had you made the correct business decision.

 

Fair enough. Bad example then, maybe. I think I'm a bit bitter since I've worked in call centers since 1998 and several good jobs have had the rug yanked out from me. Back on topic, then.

[grannywils]

Wait,nyxalinth, don't give in so easily. It is not "fair enough". Does the corportate leader not also have a duty to his country. If his only duty is to his investors, and all corporate leaders feel this way, we will soon have an economy going straight down the tubes... Oh, wait, we already do...

 

Your job does count, nyxalinth, as do thousands of others that have been shipped out of this country in order for corporations to max out their profits to their "investors". Yet somehow their salaries seem to manage to stay just fine. American workers just don't seem to count anymore.

 

In answer to the OP's original question, my feeling is that there is no simple answer. It does depend on the type of prosperity to which you are referring.

 

One can feel prosperous simply by having a happy home and a job that just pays the bills. Others need lots, and lots of "things". Others feel the need to keep up with the Joneses.

 

I guess, prosperity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder...

[Quetzlsacatanango]

I agree with you in principle, but a nation's laws reflect what it thinks are in its own interests. So implement a law that allows Mr. CEO to choose American jobs over shareholder value. Actually you will have to implement a law that requires CEO to choose American jobs over shareholder value, because if you don't he will just be replaced with someone who will choose the $$$.

Oh, and then put yourself in the shoes of a shareholder who has invested some of their money in this company and wants to see a return on it. We are not just talking about fatcats, but little old retired ladies investing their life savings.

She has a choice where to put that money, but now that you are requiring American companies to give up $$ in order to save jobs, she doesn't want to invest in American companies anymore. There is better return elsewhere.

 

You can see the problem.

[HeyYou]

I agree with you in principle, but a nation's laws reflect what it thinks are in its own interests. So implement a law that allows Mr. CEO to choose American jobs over shareholder value. Actually you will have to implement a law that requires CEO to choose American jobs over shareholder value, because if you don't he will just be replaced with someone who will choose the $$.

Oh, and then put yourself in the shoes of a shareholder who has invested some of their money in this company and wants to see a return on it. We are not just talking about fatcats, but little old retired ladies investing their life savings.

She has a choice where to put that money, but now that you are requiring American companies to give up $ in order to save jobs, she doesn't want to invest in American companies anymore. There is better return elsewhere.

 

You can see the problem.

 

It's about Long Term Security vs. Short Term Gratification. Sure, exporting the jobs makes you more money RIGHT NOW..... which is what corporate america is all about.... however, by exporting all those jobs to save a buck, you are putting the folks you want to sell your product/service to out of work, such that, they won't have the money to purchase your product/service, so in the long run, you will run out of customers, and NO ONE will make a profit. It really IS in corporate americas best interests to make sure americans have jobs. Too bad that the instant gratification thing seems to win every time.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

I don't think it is so clear. If I am a company and I outsource some low level jobs, like a call center (no offense Nyxalinth but it is), and I save that money, it does not sit in a sock under my mattress and do nothing. Even if it's in the bank it's working for me. So with that money I saved, I can hire more people for my business, to design better products, sell it, invest in capital for my business (i.e. buy expensive things), etc. So from my perspective I am thinking long term and doing good for America by creating higher paying jobs here at the cost of some low paying ones that go somewhere else.

I personally think that is a good trade.

The lesson here is not to get into a job that someone in southeast Asia can do cheaper.

[HeyYou]

I don't think it is so clear. If I am a company and I outsource some low level jobs, like a call center (no offense Nyxalinth but it is), and I save that money, it does not sit in a sock under my mattress and do nothing. Even if it's in the bank it's working for me. So with that money I saved, I can hire more people for my business, to design better products, sell it, invest in capital for my business (i.e. buy expensive things), etc. So from my perspective I am thinking long term and doing good for America by creating higher paying jobs here at the cost of some low paying ones that go somewhere else.

I personally think that is a good trade.

The lesson here is not to get into a job that someone in southeast Asia can do cheaper.

 

If it actually worked that way, and those 'higher paying jobs' were actually created here in the states, that would be all well and good. Unfortunately, that isn't the way it happens. Also, some of those call center jobs actually paid reasonably well..... as you need to have a brain cell or two to fold over and rub on itself to be able to do the job. Most of the 'technical' help I have gotten from overseas call centers is some person that can barely speak understandable english reading from a script, if you deviate from the script, they are lost...... they don't have a clue what it is they are reading, they just know how to read it.