Open letter to Mod Author: Elianora. Jeg beklager...

[Berserki93]

I want to start it with a formal apology to Elianora, for my behavior toward her in the comments on her own mod page.

 

During a discussion, I stept out of line of what's acceptable behaviour on my part. I was what anyone could describe as a bloody f*#@ing c*%!.

 

The main reason for why I went so far with that discussion was to find out what he was on about and why he acted in the way he did toward her. Meanwhile I was playing dumb as I wanted to see if there where merits to his claims or not.

I went to far in search of what I percived as a mystery, something that happend 6 years ago that I just heard about. I should had stopped the conversation, as it stopped being it and started to be a interregation. I was getting annoyed, time and time again to find out about this "mystery" and pushed on to gain the information I sought after. This, and the whole f*#@ing thing was a mistake.

 

I shouldn't have involved myself into this, nor should had I acted in the way I did, which I read from her sticky note; she felt unpleasent and disgusted by both me and him.

 

It wasn't my intention. It was however my fault. I should had stopped. Instead of letting my curiosity take control over me.

 

Elianora

 

Jeg beklager dette på det sterkeste. Jeg vet hvordan det er å skrive på to språk, spesielt et du kanskje ikke mestre så godt som meg. Jeg skulle ha stoppet. Jeg skulle ha forstått det. Jeg gjorde det ikke.

 

I'm sorry Elianora. I'm a f*#@ing c*%! of an asshole. Hell, even worse then that too in your eyes.

 

I do reckon you would not accept my apology, and I understand if you don't.

 

 

 

 

From

 

 

 

JohnAnnonym, drittungen From Norway

 

[DoctorKaizeld]

Who is "He" and what happened 6 years ago? Why does 6 years ago matter? Da heck you on about?

[Niborino9409]

Who is "He" and what happened 6 years ago? Why does 6 years ago matter? Da heck you on about?

He's on about comments on Elianora's ModDrop - This is War mod that went out of line. "He" is some other user that was in that comment section.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

Who is "He" and what happened 6 years ago? Why does 6 years ago matter? Da heck you on about?

He's on about comments on Elianora's ModDrop - This is War mod that went out of line. "He" is some other user that was in that comment section.

Well i knew it was about moddrop.. Recognize the user. I just dont see what six years ago is all about.

[Niborino9409]

That would be when the ModDrop thing started or something. First post something :sweat:

 

The only part I'm sure about is the first part since I was around for that. This feels like an apology that goes above and beyond though. The Norwegian part as well. She understands English :p I don't know if Finnish speakers can read Norweigan. It's close to Swedish language-wise so I understand it.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Niborino9409

[DoctorKaizeld]

but... moddrop isnt 6 years old...

[Niborino9409]

but... moddrop isnt 6 years old...

Let's wait for the TS to reply instead lol. Would just be speculation otherwise. Or further speculation. :yes:

[Berserki93]

 

but... moddrop isnt 6 years old...

Let's wait for the TS to reply instead lol. Would just be speculation otherwise. Or further speculation. :yes:

 

That's why I kept on.

 

For what I know now, it appears that the mod users, who later on went on to create ModDrop, where chasen off Nexus due to them stealing mods. However, the other user who came with all of these allegations seem to incite that something else was happening behind the scenes. This was the interesting part as it begged the questions; What exactly happend 6 years ago on Nexus? Could that incident had resolved in them creating Moddrop as a giant middel finger to us on Nexus? If so, where they justifiedly convicted or was it a mob rule?

 

Then it got more complicated. The other user started to pull in Copyrights laws into the mix. This is where it got messy. After discussing it, where both Creation Club Copyrights and Creation Kit copyright where mention, I made a statement:

 

Einora does have right's over her mods, created outside of CC(Creation Club, not Kit; the tool to create it), on the premiss that she does not commercial benefits from this. This is cover under Creation Kit EULA, not the EULA of Creation Club. The Creation Club EULA seems to forfeit the ownership of the mods to Zenimax and it's accosiates, thereunder Bethesda Game studio, in exchange of a paycheck

Under those circumnstances, she doesn't have a say on the Rights, as the rights of her mods in CC falls to Zenimax&Co.

 

Tl:Dr: The mods we are speaking of is assumed to be the one's on Nexus, not CC.

 

There is a valid question to ask if she is allowed to earn money through Patroen by supporting her in making mods, but that's not the topic at hand here.

 

What is on hand is this: Are the site, Moddrop, violating her rights by making the user of her mods uploading it to their website without her consent, nor knowledge?

 

Even though, legally it would had a been a fun discussion about if Patroen counts as "commercial income", this was not the subject at hand of the discussion.

If she does have the rights of her mods, as she claims, why doesn't she use her right to "send a shot above the bow" of Moddrop? To really stamp on their toes?

Again, her mod seem to indicate she wanted to start a fight, not to make people aware of the situation.

 

However, the other mod user made a statement as well about what he said he knew:

 

"the people behind this crusade despise the former user known as GMod and anyone associated with him, now and forever.

This feud has been going on for 6 years know (according to Reddit threads).

Some of the people behind this crusade have a history of bad mouthing Nexus users publicly and behind their backs. Some of that is evident in the posts in this thread.

There is sometimes a big difference between morals, ethics and the law.

This discussion belongs in the Nexus forums.

This mod and the Skyrim mods appear support to comment about GMod.

Those supporting this crusade appear to have no facts or they are unwilling/able to present them."

 

If you ask me, I don't know why he made this comment, but again: It triggerd my Curiosity. Why make this bald claim? What is his intention with it? Where is his facts to back up his arguments?

At this moment, I knew I f*#@ed up, as I didn't correct him by stating this is also off topic from my question like I did to another user and Elinora.

 

Elinora:

 

Why do you keep bringing up Creation Club? The Creation Club has NOTHING to do with this, ModDrop, or Nexus. CC.. It's DLC released by Bethesda in their platform/game.

If someone uploads Creation Club content to ModDrop (which they have, can and will continue to do, we just can't get any proof because of how sketchy the system is and you can't actually see what people upload there), it's Bethesda's problem, not mine.

 

I replied, rather annoyed, by people derailing this conversation:

 

The reason why I brought up CC is from what I percive:

* People had a tendency to mix up Creation kit and Creation club(Dunno why, but it appears so)

* Some may have a personal grudge about your inv. in CC, even though in this context it's NOT relevant as it's off topic.

* To set things straight and back onto the topic; "Are the site, Moddrop, violating her rights by making the user of her mods uploading it to their website without her consent, nor knowledge?"

 

Note the second point?

At that time; I had a suspicion if this was a motive behind all of this. However, to keep it going, I handwaved it away to keep digging.

 

There where this comment, made a third member:

 

"Elianora has a Patreon?

I'm.. Surprised- No offense to Elianora- She works hard on what she does.

But there are authors out there that make their own meshes and textures

and upload far more frequently. How many mod authors actually subsist

through Patreon around here? I wasn't aware it was /that/ many."

 

 

At which point I made this statement:

*sigh...

As I mention in the O.P ----------:

 

"There is a valid question to ask if she is allowed to earn money through Patroen by supporting her in making mods, but that's not the topic at hand here"

So, let me repreat myself: That's a topic for another time.

 

Again, at this point I should had stopped the whole thing, as I realized putting that into the main comment, was just plain retardet of me. However, I was still waiting for a reply on accusation to prove that had something to do with it. She didn't answare, as she instead adressed that topic about patroen.

 

She made a comment saying:

My Patreon is not supporting making mods in ANY WAY. No one is getting any special mod related rewards or even any kind "beta access" opportunites or anything because of it.

It's for people who wish to donate me for whatever content I've made. It's basically same as a Nexus donation, only it's monthly.

My content creation frequency is in NO WAY related to Patreon or donations. I do what I want, when I feel like it. So stop trying to drag that into this.

A fair statement to adress the issue, I didn't have a problem with this. However, later on the same comment, she wrote this:

"This has nothing to do with me. NONE OF MY MODS WERE IN THOSE MOD PACKS THAT WERE UPLOADED TO MODDROP BY YOUTUBERS. I'm not "trying to get my mods taken down", I'm trying make people realise that mods uploaded to ModDrop are there WITHOUT PERMISSION from the original authors. Here's one of the lists made from mods that we're in one of the (now removed) mod packs. The mod packs most likely would've stayed up if I hadn't raised a fuss. https://docs.google....mjIG4-z1cA/edit

There are mostly likely MANY MANY HIDDEN, PRIVATE MOD PACKS shared by "friends" that we cannot see or inspect."

I was confused by this statement.

She wanted to raise awarness about these pack and the issue that they did upload the mods to their site, moddrop, without permission and/or knowledge. Yet, that awarness is also what made them take down another mod pack from an different author. Why raise awarness about this, unless you want people attention to take down her mods from the site, along side with other mods from different authors?

To me, it looks like she wanted a fight, rather then raise awarness.

Again, maybe my english is rather bad and I need someone to tell me if I'm making more of a arse out of myself, but that's what I read from that statement.

Regardless, further on it went.

He made these statements:

First:

"Creation Club, like the Creation Kit EULA is a common point of reference when discussing individual developers rights in regards to US Copyright law. Uploading Creation Club content to ModDrop was not part of the discussion."

Again, adressing to Elianora about what topics where at hand.

However, he build upon the Third member comment and wrote this;

LOL ----------. I thought you made a good point. Indirectly, your comment may help address the topic of motive (I would still need facts). The silence has been deafening....

 

 

Again, adressing Elianora's not replying to his original accusations, the one that triggerd my curiosity.

 

however; I should had arrested him making that comment, as I did for the others.

 

 

Then Elianora went on something:

"Just because they're not the facts you wanted to see (that would support your weird view of this issue), doesn't make them magical "not-facts".

 

Is she reffering to the EULA? The links she had posted on the mod? Other comment I missed?

At this point, I was confused beyond recognicion and decided to make a clearification about what's going on and also make a apology for my snarky comment prev. to the third member:

 

"I want to adress several people, so take your time and read it thorough, ok?

If you have questions about my comment, ask me directly what part you didn't get, ok?

ok, Elinora, is this correct assurtion of your comment:

You want to raise awarness about the mods made by modauthors(incl. you and others) that their content is on Moddrop without their premission and/or Knowledge, right?

You don't neccearly want your mods to be soley taken down from Moddrop, Right?

Also, as I say prev.: CC IS NOT THE TOPIC IN THIS CONVERSATION. Can we agree to lay it to rest now, please?* I was pissed at this point being brought up for the 3rd time now.

--------------, I do apologize for the *sigh comment. We're cool, right?"

 

However, I think my comment got ignored, as I didn't recive any replies directed toward me.

 

The other commentor made this statement after my comment:

 

"Elianora: What facts are your referring to? I've been patiently waiting all day. I already saw/read all of the links you provided and more, Zaric's 28 minute video requires a great deal of patience . All of this (and more)was the reason why I asked all of the questions and it is the reason I have been willing to listen. I have not received any actual answers or facts. I have seen "bad" behavior with mod authors in the past (i.e. MxR sued by a mod author for following the law), I'm trying to reach an informed decision.

For the sake of transparency, I would also like to refer you to :

I'd be interested in your opinions...Since they have been banned on Nexus, they can't defend themselves or their actions. Is there a compromise? I'm trying to gather facts and listen to both sides. Much of Zaric's information is very old (outdated)."

Again, a interesting statement, but something was off.

"I have not received any actual answers or facts. I have seen "bad" behavior with mod authors in the past (i.e. MxR sued by a mod author for following the law), I'm trying to reach an informed decision."

Anecdotal fallacy seems to be at play here, as he doesn't adress the points made in the video Elianora had linked, not did he seem to care. All because of personal experience of what he percived, therefor he cast away her evidence.

This was something I wanted to digg into deeper, as it seems rather shady he doesn't adress the points made in the video speaking in Elianora favour. Also, why does he claim that Zaric's info is "Outdated"? Does he have Info he wasn't sharing with us? Is he trying to cover something up? Why is he doing so?

Again, Curiosity got the better of me.

At this point, I wanted Elianora to call this out. To make him answare to her questions, instead of the other way around. However... that didn't happend.

Instead, she outright banned him for it.

Saying: "I'm trying to reach an informed decision that suits my bias/doesn't require effort"

That was a statement meant to tell us what she percived his goals where. I got it. However, I wanted a deeper understanding why she banned him, instead of calling him out and showing he was driven by a motive.

So I asked:

"What was wrong with smgilbert101 comment? Can you please specify why you suspect him to try on a confirmation bias? What is he trying to confirm?"

Again, giving her a chance to explain her points of view about the suspicion she held against him. A golden oppertunity to make right, right!

Instead, she wrote a comment in Finnish to me.

I'm going out of memmory here, but here is what I remember of that comment:

She told me she didn't enjoy this conversation as she spoke Finnish as a motherly tounge and wasn't interested in arguing in English with two, who she percived, was Native English speakers. She told me to look up the links, she was tired( it was 5-6 in the fooking morning, herp derp when she bnlocked me) and she also said I was "Shady" and Dodgy with my question and explenations.

Or at least, I percive it that she called me shady, as I only got up the word from translate: "Allig", a word I searched for and recived pages about alligators for on Google :/

This is where it end. I'm blocked by the mod author and can't see, nor download her mods.

I'm still curiose about the accusation from the other commenter about: why he made those statements? Why did he bring up Copyright for both CK and CC? Why did he appear that he too had something to hide? Why did he disrigard the evidence put fourth from Elianora, as he previosly held her accounteble to back up her claims?

And for Elianora: Did she knew more then she let on? Why didn't she attack his accusation, but seemed to make off hand comments? Why did she too seem dodgy in her answaering? What is her purpose with the mod, unless it is to start a fight, hench WAR being in her mod title? Why did she block out those comments regarding this subject?

Again, questions like these is still bothering me, especial the final one: What excatly happend here on Nexus 6 years ago?

However, as I stated in O.P.

I was a asshole for doing this, a f*#@ing c*%! of a asshole more corect. I shouldn't had done this and I f*#@ed up so many times during that conversation. I should had taken the iniative to stop it early on, once I made that f*#@ up of statement about her patroens, as again: It could b a fun topic to discuss, but it was irrelevant here.

Again; I f*#@ed up.

Therefore, do I aplogize to her, as I percived that she felt she was being interretgated by us two, but also she percived that we insultet her(She claims in the stickynotes that comments insulted her intelligence and made her look dumb), but at last: here we are.

This is my side of the topic. I f*#@ed up MAJORLY.

[TheMastersSon]

Were psychosis medications recently banned in our country?

[Niborino9409]

I try not to read too deep into what others comment on ModDrop related mods.

 

The fact of the matter is that the dude behind moddrop has tried to pull this crap before. That's what happened 6 years ago. That's what it's about now. Elianora herself has no mods on ModDrop, she is bringing it up due to her big influence on things, trying to make sure that other's mods doesn't end up there.

 

This probably the thread that was mentioned in the comments you copy pasted. Which for the record, made this insanely long.

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/7n20ai/moddrop_apologizes/dryzuqm/

 

And if you are replying to this please keep it in reasonable length. And for the record, You haven't committed a crime against humanity, it's a disagreement in the comments of a mod.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Niborino9409