Abortion Rights Revisited

[TheMastersSon]

What I am against is non pragmatic fanaticism and drama weaseling, trying to be enforced on ether side, its beyond the issue itself its just one example. Its dangerous to the country. Its all hypocrisy anyway, bring out the worst natural human instincts.

 

They are not thinking clearly and don't care to.

 

In fact some are rather enjoying this I suspect...and yet it creates real world economical social and other problems, its costing lives with the unstable....and as I tried to say in context the other side (other-side?) *snicker* is trying to do what they accuse the others of by calling everyone Notsee and instead of using reason. Are they really that insure or is it pure delusion?

 

To make a crude example, if a man wants to make a lifestyle out of buggering farm fresh produce, its his business as long as he dose not try to gain universal agreement or involve others or there opinions, for what his doing and enforce it. Maybe Ruining everyone's trip to the supermarket and expecting no comment. Maybe trying to get the store manger fired for saying clean up on isle 6.''you bigot how dare you?'' Hahaha.

Well if you're equating legal recognition of same-sex marriages to sex with farm produce, you're not alone. Even many of our major religions do the exact same. The problem is that farm produce does not have constitutional rights, and inanimate objects cannot give legal consent to sexual relations. It's why another homophobe who sued for the right to marry his laptop computer in response to same-sex marriage recognition didn't make it very far in our courts. Neither did polygamists, since the activity that forms their class is illegal in our country.

 

They are afraid of a concept an opinion and want to force everyone to say they are universal right and end all debate. Legally enforce it.

That is legislating thoughts trying to kill ideas. That is not reality. It wont work it brings War.

Not sure which "they" you're referring to, but if the right to legally recognized marriage is not one of the most fundamental of all human rights, no other right ever could be. This is what every court (nearly) has ruled throughout this debate, which is now over 20 years old. In 1996 a very brave man stood in front of the U.S. House and asked, "How does the fact that I love another man, and choose to live in a committed relationship with him, affect your marriage?"

 

22 years later and still nobody has provided a credible or even a coherent answer. Because it doesn't affect their marriages, unless these marriages already include gay people. :)

Edited January 7, 2018 by TheMastersSon

[HeyYou]

Each side has their hot-button issues, and I think there is very little common ground any more. Both sides claim they want "what's best for america", and both sides think they know better than the other...... And we end up with the legislative equivalent of musical chairs..... just depends on who is in power.

 

My biggest issue with same sex 'marriage', is the courts (the state) trying to tell religions (church) what they should believe. The Bible, (you know, the book that most religions are based on...) flatly states that homosexuality is, and this a direct quote "an abomination before god." But, here comes the government, trying to tell the church that they are now pretty much required to perform a ceremony that is anathema to their beliefs. How can that in any way be seen as a "good thing"? We had separation of church and state here FOR A REASON. Now we don't????

 

Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who you sleep with, or who you want to be in a 'relationship' with..... and I think the various religious institutions would be far friendlier if same sex 'marriage' was simply called something else, and not be forced down the collective churches throat. Call it a civil union, performed by a GOVERNMENT entity. (justice of the peace, or whathaveyou) and call it a day. The LBGT crowd gets what they want (the legal benefits of being 'married'), the church isn't forced to accept it, though they still have the choice to do what they will with it..... Everyone is 'happy'.... For the most part.

 

Trouble is, the LGBT crowd has their militants as well, and DEMAND their 'rights' be recognized by EVERYONE, including the church..... Absolutely no different than any other lobby group. This is where the 'bake me a cake' problem comes in. When I was younger, I remember seeing signs in businesses, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." But now, you can't do that. It's 'discrimination'....... Ah, so, some business ran by a religious person that objects to same sex 'marriage', does not want to participate in such a ceremony, but, they can't say 'no', because that would be 'discrimination'? Seriously? So now, if you offer a service, you MUST provide it to anyone that asks....... regardless of how strenuously you object to said activity. Hhhhmmmm........

 

So, it comes down to: Whose rights trump whose? Both sides of the problem have their rights. But, one side providing said service against their religious beliefs violates their rights....... NOT providing the service now violates the requesting partys rights........ There is no solution here, that is going to make everyone happy, but, apparently, it seems that a tiny minority of the population, (around 3% last time I checked) has the advantage here..... I am REAL curious how that works.....

 

What I find REALLY hypocritical though, is churches deciding that 'changing with the times' is more important than their beliefs they have held for over 1000 years...... What changed???? Is the age of political correctness now invading the church as well??

[anothertwilight]

The Bible, (you know, the book that most religions are based on...)

 

Neither 'most' currently, not 'most' historically. If you mean 'most Christian religions are based on' then you're kind of redundant.

 

flatly states that homosexuality is, and this a direct quote "an abomination before god."

 

Yup. In Leviticus 18:22. You know, Leviticus that also tells you not to wear clothes made of two different materials (18:19) because, you know, a linen wool blend is like _way_ bad. And speaks against unkempt hair (10:6), eating prawns, lobster etc (11:10-12), picking up the grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10) and which has the appropriate price for slaves based on age and gender.

 

Yeah.

 

So, I presume you consider at least some of those (and/or other parts of Leviticus) to be outdated, outmoded or perhaps better suited to a small desert tribe living thousands of years ago.

 

So please. Don't be quoting Leviticus to support your 'the Bible says it's an abomination'. The bible, especially the part you refer to but don't quote, says a lot of things that people have (sensibly) decided were best left as a historical oddity.

 

We had separation of church and state here FOR A REASON. Now we don't????

 

No. You didn't. You can't even see it. Whilst the government recognises and provides rights to people who have had a church sanctioned ceremony (ie, married couples get anything from tax breaks to visitation rights in hospital) then there is a discrepancy in the rights of those who have not had that ceremony. This has nothing to do with the usual meaning of 'the separation of church and state' which usually refers to the establishment and practice of religion being free from state interference.

 

So, if you want your church to remain free of the taint of homosexual marriages, the solution is easy. Give up every right that couples married in and by your church currently enjoy, _OR_ grant those same rights to any couple (regardless of gender, race or whatever). You let the state in when you let your married couples claim each other as dependants for tax purposes; or claim children as dependants; or claim the right to visit a spouse in hospital ... etc.

 

I really don't care who you sleep with, or who you want to be in a 'relationship' with

 

Yeah, and when you take those quote marks away from "relationship" then I'll believe you, but for so long as the government recognises some ceremonies and not others; for so long as folks like you put quotes around "relationship" then there's a distinction being made that needs to be addressed.

 

You go on to suggest the problem would be alleviated by calling it something else. That's not how equality works. For so long as there's some cachet attached to 'marriage' and some people get to be 'married' and others get to have a 'civil union', then there's discrimination.

 

It is as simple as you suggest. If you want the government and lobby groups out of your church, then stop claiming the rights associated with your ceremonies. If not, be prepared for other people to demand that the government stop favouring you and your church and start allowing the rest of us to have access to those same rights.

 

 

What I find REALLY hypocritical though, is churches deciding that 'changing with the times' is more important than their beliefs they have held for over 1000 years...... What changed???? Is the age of political correctness now invading the church as well??

 

Hey, don't let me stop you - Leviticus has a whole host of stuff you can use to get back to your roots. Stop eating seafood without fins, stop wearing clothes made of two fabrics, sell your slaves for 30 shekels (female only) etc. What? That's not what you meant? You mean, somewhere down the track someone decided that those weren't especially useful or relevant and 'changed with the times'? Tell me it ain't so!

 

Get some perspective. Talk to some folk who have different world views than your own. Read books written by people who lived lives by different codes and different beliefs. Learn. Live. Love.

Then talk to me about hypocrisy.

[RGMage2]

Thou shalt not be politically incorrect.

[TheMastersSon]

Also and even more importantly, Thou shalt not discuss religious beliefs in these forums. Even my own post regarding predestination technically violated the policy, but I've never found a way to explain my moral position on and defense of abortion without it.

[HeyYou]

 

The Bible, (you know, the book that most religions are based on...)

 

Neither 'most' currently, not 'most' historically. If you mean 'most Christian religions are based on' then you're kind of redundant.

 

flatly states that homosexuality is, and this a direct quote "an abomination before god."

 

Yup. In Leviticus 18:22. You know, Leviticus that also tells you not to wear clothes made of two different materials (18:19) because, you know, a linen wool blend is like _way_ bad. And speaks against unkempt hair (10:6), eating prawns, lobster etc (11:10-12), picking up the grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10) and which has the appropriate price for slaves based on age and gender.

 

Yeah.

 

So, I presume you consider at least some of those (and/or other parts of Leviticus) to be outdated, outmoded or perhaps better suited to a small desert tribe living thousands of years ago.

 

So please. Don't be quoting Leviticus to support your 'the Bible says it's an abomination'. The bible, especially the part you refer to but don't quote, says a lot of things that people have (sensibly) decided were best left as a historical oddity.

 

We had separation of church and state here FOR A REASON. Now we don't????

 

No. You didn't. You can't even see it. Whilst the government recognises and provides rights to people who have had a church sanctioned ceremony (ie, married couples get anything from tax breaks to visitation rights in hospital) then there is a discrepancy in the rights of those who have not had that ceremony. This has nothing to do with the usual meaning of 'the separation of church and state' which usually refers to the establishment and practice of religion being free from state interference.

 

So, if you want your church to remain free of the taint of homosexual marriages, the solution is easy. Give up every right that couples married in and by your church currently enjoy, _OR_ grant those same rights to any couple (regardless of gender, race or whatever). You let the state in when you let your married couples claim each other as dependants for tax purposes; or claim children as dependants; or claim the right to visit a spouse in hospital ... etc.

 

I really don't care who you sleep with, or who you want to be in a 'relationship' with

 

Yeah, and when you take those quote marks away from "relationship" then I'll believe you, but for so long as the government recognises some ceremonies and not others; for so long as folks like you put quotes around "relationship" then there's a distinction being made that needs to be addressed.

 

You go on to suggest the problem would be alleviated by calling it something else. That's not how equality works. For so long as there's some cachet attached to 'marriage' and some people get to be 'married' and others get to have a 'civil union', then there's discrimination.

 

It is as simple as you suggest. If you want the government and lobby groups out of your church, then stop claiming the rights associated with your ceremonies. If not, be prepared for other people to demand that the government stop favouring you and your church and start allowing the rest of us to have access to those same rights.

 

 

What I find REALLY hypocritical though, is churches deciding that 'changing with the times' is more important than their beliefs they have held for over 1000 years...... What changed???? Is the age of political correctness now invading the church as well??

 

Hey, don't let me stop you - Leviticus has a whole host of stuff you can use to get back to your roots. Stop eating seafood without fins, stop wearing clothes made of two fabrics, sell your slaves for 30 shekels (female only) etc. What? That's not what you meant? You mean, somewhere down the track someone decided that those weren't especially useful or relevant and 'changed with the times'? Tell me it ain't so!

 

Get some perspective. Talk to some folk who have different world views than your own. Read books written by people who lived lives by different codes and different beliefs. Learn. Live. Love.

Then talk to me about hypocrisy.

 

There are references in the New Testament as well..... but, don't let me burst your bubble.

 

A fair bit of it is also a matter of interpretation. (but, not the homosexuality bit....) Some religions don't think you should eat meat at all..... Regardless of where it comes from.

 

That said, yeah, this is most certainly a 'religious' debate, and going there just isn't a good idea....... So, I'm gonna leave it at that.

[skyquest32]

Each side has their hot-button issues, and I think there is very little common ground any more. Both sides claim they want "what's best for america", and both sides think they know better than the other...... And we end up with the legislative equivalent of musical chairs..... just depends on who is in power.

 

My biggest issue with same sex 'marriage', is the courts (the state) trying to tell religions (church) what they should believe. The Bible, (you know, the book that most religions are based on...) flatly states that homosexuality is, and this a direct quote "an abomination before god." But, here comes the government, trying to tell the church that they are now pretty much required to perform a ceremony that is anathema to their beliefs. How can that in any way be seen as a "good thing"? We had separation of church and state here FOR A REASON. Now we don't????

 

Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who you sleep with, or who you want to be in a 'relationship' with..... and I think the various religious institutions would be far friendlier if same sex 'marriage' was simply called something else, and not be forced down the collective churches throat. Call it a civil union, performed by a GOVERNMENT entity. (justice of the peace, or whathaveyou) and call it a day. The LBGT crowd gets what they want (the legal benefits of being 'married'), the church isn't forced to accept it, though they still have the choice to do what they will with it..... Everyone is 'happy'.... For the most part.

 

Trouble is, the LGBT crowd has their militants as well, and DEMAND their 'rights' be recognized by EVERYONE, including the church..... Absolutely no different than any other lobby group. This is where the 'bake me a cake' problem comes in. When I was younger, I remember seeing signs in businesses, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." But now, you can't do that. It's 'discrimination'....... Ah, so, some business ran by a religious person that objects to same sex 'marriage', does not want to participate in such a ceremony, but, they can't say 'no', because that would be 'discrimination'? Seriously? So now, if you offer a service, you MUST provide it to anyone that asks....... regardless of how strenuously you object to said activity. Hhhhmmmm........

 

So, it comes down to: Whose rights trump whose? Both sides of the problem have their rights. But, one side providing said service against their religious beliefs violates their rights....... NOT providing the service now violates the requesting partys rights........ There is no solution here, that is going to make everyone happy, but, apparently, it seems that a tiny minority of the population, (around 3% last time I checked) has the advantage here..... I am REAL curious how that works.....

 

What I find REALLY hypocritical though, is churches deciding that 'changing with the times' is more important than their beliefs they have held for over 1000 years...... What changed???? Is the age of political correctness now invading the church as well??

I agree, I don't care who sleeps with whom, the problem in part, is in the spirit of what you just wrote. Clearly you get my point. Its the issue behind the issue. When your not face to face with someone or on live chat its hard to clarify.

 

They too are trying to take away freedom, not just them but PC crowed at large. Take it away from others to assure there own interest when its unneeded and causing social and culture unrest.

 

They want to be absolute. If they were what they claim they would respect the rights and opinions of others as well as there freedom and constitutional rights as well as the principals on which the US was originally founded. Heck this is a multinational problem.

 

They are hurting people by proxy needlessly, and causing civil and cultural unrest!

 

Perhaps I am not saying the most pragmatic thing at this point but I am saying the most truthful as I and others see it.

 

My opinions on homosexuality or abortion in itself do not enter into, its the issue behind the issue.

 

Trying to force a philosophy and way of life on others or else suffer is what they are saying. They are turning people against them that would not have given a flying flip one way or the other before now.

 

We wont be ruled by another culture or lose are rights and livelihood nor our freedom of thought and ''within reason'' expression. Minorities have suffered but so have many through the ages, many tribes many people it even changes places throughout history.

 

Yet guess what? its a tough old world and I wont pay for, or feel guilt for, or be socially dominated by others for something I did not do.

 

All suffer, such is the lot of the human race. That your a minority makes you no more special than the common man and gives you no more rights in my view. Your are owed nothing except equality under the law.

 

I say grow the F up and live your life. Stop trying to get in the way of equality under the law, the right to pursue happiness and freedom of religion.

 

Want others to respect you? Then show them the same respect. Stop being a hypocrite.

 

They are even trying to deface classic works of fiction and even change historical records.

 

Digging up the decently buried past of old beloved movie actors, ruining lives of these individuals children and grandchildren... defacing brilliant careers to make a point needlessly! As a fad! Its a lowly unworthy thing totally out of context with the issue.

 

Because being in everyone's face all the time, repeating the same old hacked crap in the present is not enough! It all has to fit the loony cult propaganda. So they are going HG wells!

 

ITS like:

(the following is exaggerated satire')

''Hop into the time machine everyone! We'll have a circle jerk and a remembrance circle on the way.

Hey I got Diet coke and Crappy food that might as well be Styrofoam! Cheap as hell!

 

There's even some whiny bastard on the radio trying to sing with mechanical aid...singing a duet with one of those lanky haired teen girls whose voice breaks up and make woo woo puppy dog noises because she cant carry a tune! *everyone cheers*!''

 

Did you see the remake of that film? Yeah, great! More action and they changed the character of Abraham Lincoln to a lesbian black woman played by whoopee Goldburg! Awesome! Wish they had cut the stupid speeches though. I didn't get that.

 

Was'nt Abe always a black woman? If we want to say so, it makes true!

Really? Yeah I'm bi watch this: I am a man, *poof* I am a man now! Now..wait for it...Poof! I am a woman again! Just because I say its true and if anybody disagrees I'll be rich from the law suit.

 

Yeah! I see now! We dont need a white guy to free the slaves! thats racist! Yeah and not a guy! Screw history!

 

Other guy: Hey I'm a wearwolf! *poof* waves arms. Cool thought they had fur though? Hey thats discrimnation aginst furless wearwolfs! I am so sorry! Still suing you, for the attention! I deserve it!

 

About the movie: One thing though shouldn't she have also been half post op man too? Right, those bigots. I was wrong, lets damage the studio and protest! Yeah!

 

First we got to get the dirt on this old dead guy though. I think he has some kids in the present? Can we get any money out of it? Yeah sure can! Racist sexist bastard, we just have to see how thats true. True? whats truth?

 

Never mind I'll just send my friend in to set him up and sue his granddaughter back in the future.

 

Oh yeah they deserve it! Hey afterword maybe we can nail that Christ dude! I read about laying on of hands! Yeah! Screw relgion cause were way so smart! Other guy: watch your grammar'' Girl: but I'm talking out load! Guy: sorry force of habit its how I win debates online!''

 

People are starting not to care anymore even with the constant barrage of propaganda. Most don't even really care about anyone else lifestyle but they don't want this idiocy shoved in there faces.

 

Its casing discord between races, genders, cultural elements even an upsurge in crime. Sadly, its true there is very little common ground for this reason.

 

 

Simply put if they have the rights to there beliefs and lifestyle and freedom of expression to hate and slander on public tv, to believe what they will, so do we!

 

We will never except it as the norm for all. Tolerance and equality under the law, is as far as it goes.

 

We wont be raped by there culture any more than they want to be by ours. We do not accept there expectations of extra entitlement above the common man. That cuts zero ice. You are not our gods.

 

Do as you will but don't hold out for dictator like universal culturally enforced approval.

 

Give it up, the circus is getting old, no one cares go home, shows over.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................

''Freedom to rock''-Alice Cooper.

 

Relax man, she ant worth it, sit down and have a cold one and lets think it over- M.B. Franklin Barkeep 1989

Edited January 8, 2018 by skyquest32

[TheMastersSon]

Trying to force a philosophy and way of life on others or else suffer is what they are saying. They are turning people against them that would not have given a flying flip one way or the other before now.

If you're referring to gay people, it's been known for over a half century that sexual orientation is unchangeable in humans. Five percent of us (I've never seen this number vary at all across formal studies over the years) are currently questioning our sexuality, and even for these 5% orientation doesn't change, only the realization and acceptance of orientation, and the other 95% of us know exactly what we are and it never changes at any time during our entire lives.

 

So given these facts, please explain what makes you believe it's even possible for either gay or straight people to "force" their "philosophy" or "way of life" on anyone else. Gay people are the ones who've been subjected to 3000+ years of not only forcing but institutionalized bigotry and even genocide, in addition to the social, family and religious stigmas associated with homosexuality. It's absurd to read attempts to spin their actual victimhood into a delusional one on heterosexuals, somehow an attack on their right to be bigoted morons. I get an even bigger kick out of hearing the phrase "gay lifestyle" or "gay way of life". News flash, the gay people I know get up every morning, they eat breakfast and go to work, come home, shower, watch some TV and then retire to bed either alone or with their partner. Can you please explain how this differs from your own "way of life"?

 

The truth is, gay people simply demanded and received enforcement of our 14th and other Amendments, which prohibit established second-class citizens and denial of due process etc in our country. IMO it's tragic that you apparently believe this enforcement somehow equates to an infringement on YOUR rights. As long as no enforceable civil laws against homosexuality exist in our country, the only right you're being denied is bigotry. If you don't like our Constitution please live elsewhere. The world still has no shortage of countries where this horrible gay agenda to end civilization isn't tolerated. I suggest Iran, where to this day gangs of clergy-police hunt down gay men, castrate them with knives and force-feed the genitals to their victims as they bleed to death. It's the emotionally honest version of the traditional Judeo-Christian view of homosexuals.

Edited January 8, 2018 by TheMastersSon

[HeyYou]

 

Trying to force a philosophy and way of life on others or else suffer is what they are saying. They are turning people against them that would not have given a flying flip one way or the other before now.

If you're referring to gay people, it's been known for over a half century that sexual orientation is unchangeable in humans. Five percent of us (I've never seen this number vary at all across formal studies over the years) are currently questioning our sexuality, and even for these 5% orientation doesn't change, only the realization and acceptance of orientation, and the other 95% of us know exactly what we are and it never changes at any time during our entire lives.

 

So given these facts, please explain what makes you believe it's even possible for either gay or straight people to "force" their "philosophy" or "way of life" on anyone else. Gay people are the ones who've been subjected to 3000+ years of not only forcing but institutionalized bigotry and even genocide, in addition to the social, family and religious stigmas associated with homosexuality. It's absurd to read attempts to spin their actual victimhood into a delusional one on heterosexuals, somehow an attack on their right to be bigoted morons. I get an even bigger kick out of hearing the phrase "gay lifestyle" or "gay way of life". News flash, the gay people I know get up every morning, they eat breakfast and go to work, come home, shower, watch some TV and then retire to bed either alone or with their partner. Can you please explain how this differs from your own "way of life"?

 

The truth is, gay people simply demanded and received enforcement of our 14th and other Amendments, which prohibit established second-class citizens and denial of due process etc in our country. IMO it's tragic that you apparently believe this enforcement somehow equates to an infringement on YOUR rights. As long as no enforceable civil laws against homosexuality exist in our country, the only right you're being denied is bigotry. If you don't like our Constitution please live elsewhere. The world still has no shortage of countries where this horrible gay agenda to end civilization isn't tolerated. I suggest Iran, where to this day gangs of clergy-police hunt down gay men, castrate them with knives and force-feed the genitals to their victims as they bleed to death. It's the emotionally honest version of the traditional Judeo-Christian view of homosexuals.

 

Um, no. That most certainly has NOT been proven, nor accepted. There are many studies that state exactly the opposite. I have also know several folks that were straight, and later started dating same sex folks, I have also know folks that were gay, that later married a person of the opposite sex. For some, sexual orientation doesn't change, for others, it does.

 

Ok, just as a 'for instance', let's say that I run a bakery, and we cater weddings. I am very religious, and strenuously object to the gay lifestyle, as does my church. Heck, I might even be the pastor of my church. So, along comes John and Dave, and they want me to cater their wedding. I refuse, on religious grounds. I get sued......

 

Now, in that example, someones rights ARE going to get violated. Either the happy couple, since I won't cater their wedding, or mine, and the law will FORCE me to violate my religious beliefs. This is the LBGT movement/Government dictating morality. How is that NOT a violation of my rights?

 

And, just for general info..... I am NOT religious, I do NOT go to church, I am most certainly NOT a pastor anywhere, and I don't believe most of the bible either...... However, there are a LOT of folks that DO.

[skyquest32]

 

Each side has their hot-button issues, and I think there is very little common ground any more. Both sides claim they want "what's best for america", and both sides think they know better than the other...... And we end up with the legislative equivalent of musical chairs..... just depends on who is in power.

 

My biggest issue with same sex 'marriage', is the courts (the state) trying to tell religions (church) what they should believe. The Bible, (you know, the book that most religions are based on...) flatly states that homosexuality is, and this a direct quote "an abomination before god." But, here comes the government, trying to tell the church that they are now pretty much required to perform a ceremony that is anathema to their beliefs. How can that in any way be seen as a "good thing"? We had separation of church and state here FOR A REASON. Now we don't????

 

Don't get me wrong, I really don't care who you sleep with, or who you want to be in a 'relationship' with..... and I think the various religious institutions would be far friendlier if same sex 'marriage' was simply called something else, and not be forced down the collective churches throat. Call it a civil union, performed by a GOVERNMENT entity. (justice of the peace, or whathaveyou) and call it a day. The LBGT crowd gets what they want (the legal benefits of being 'married'), the church isn't forced to accept it, though they still have the choice to do what they will with it..... Everyone is 'happy'.... For the most part.

 

Trouble is, the LGBT crowd has their militants as well, and DEMAND their 'rights' be recognized by EVERYONE, including the church..... Absolutely no different than any other lobby group. This is where the 'bake me a cake' problem comes in. When I was younger, I remember seeing signs in businesses, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." But now, you can't do that. It's 'discrimination'....... Ah, so, some business ran by a religious person that objects to same sex 'marriage', does not want to participate in such a ceremony, but, they can't say 'no', because that would be 'discrimination'? Seriously? So now, if you offer a service, you MUST provide it to anyone that asks....... regardless of how strenuously you object to said activity. Hhhhmmmm........

 

So, it comes down to: Whose rights trump whose? Both sides of the problem have their rights. But, one side providing said service against their religious beliefs violates their rights....... NOT providing the service now violates the requesting partys rights........ There is no solution here, that is going to make everyone happy, but, apparently, it seems that a tiny minority of the population, (around 3% last time I checked) has the advantage here..... I am REAL curious how that works.....

 

What I find REALLY hypocritical though, is churches deciding that 'changing with the times' is more important than their beliefs they have held for over 1000 years...... What changed???? Is the age of political correctness now invading the church as well??

I agree, I don't care who sleeps with whom, the problem in part, is in the spirit of what you just wrote. Clearly you get my point. Its the issue behind the issue. When your not face to face with someone or on live chat its hard to clarify.

 

They too are trying to take away freedom, not just them but PC crowed at large. Take it away from others to assure there own interest when its unneeded and causing social and culture unrest.

 

They want to be absolute. If they were what they claim they would respect the rights and opinions of others as well as there freedom and constitutional rights as well as the principals on which the US was originally founded. Heck this is a multinational problem.

 

They are hurting people by proxy needlessly, and causing civil and cultural unrest!

 

Perhaps I am not saying the most pragmatic thing at this point but I am saying the most truthful as I and others see it.

 

My opinions on homosexuality or abortion in itself do not enter into, its the issue behind the issue.

 

Trying to force a philosophy and way of life on others or else suffer is what they are saying. They are turning people against them that would not have given a flying flip one way or the other before now.

 

We wont be ruled by another culture or lose are rights and livelihood nor our freedom of thought and ''within reason'' expression. Minorities have suffered but so have many through the ages, many tribes many people it even changes places throughout history.

 

Yet guess what? its a tough old world and I wont pay for, or feel guilt for, or be socially dominated by others for something I did not do.

 

All suffer, such is the lot of the human race. That your a minority makes you no more special than the common man and gives you no more rights in my view. Your are owed nothing except equality under the law.

 

I say grow the F up and live your life. Stop trying to get in the way of equality under the law, the right to pursue happiness and freedom of religion.

 

Want others to respect you? Then show them the same respect. Stop being a hypocrite.

 

They are even trying to deface classic works of fiction and even change historical records.

 

Digging up the decently buried past of old beloved movie actors, ruining lives of these individuals children and grandchildren... defacing brilliant careers to make a point needlessly! As a fad! Its a lowly unworthy thing totally out of context with the issue.

 

Because being in everyone's face all the time, repeating the same old hacked crap in the present is not enough! It all has to fit the loony cult propaganda. So they are going HG wells!

 

ITS like:

(the following is exaggerated satire')

''Hop into the time machine everyone! We'll have a circle jerk and a remembrance circle on the way.

Hey I got Diet coke and Crappy food that might as well be Styrofoam! Cheap as hell!

 

There's even some whiny bastard on the radio trying to sing with mechanical aid...singing a duet with one of those lanky haired teen girls whose voice breaks up and make woo woo puppy dog noises because she cant carry a tune! *everyone cheers*!''

 

Did you see the remake of that film? Yeah, great! More action and they changed the character of Abraham Lincoln to a lesbian black woman played by whoopee Goldburg! Awesome! Wish they had cut the stupid speeches though. I didn't get that.

 

Was'nt Abe always a black woman? If we want to say so, it makes true!

Really? Yeah I'm bi watch this: I am a man, *poof* I am a man now! Now..wait for it...Poof! I am a woman again! Just because I say its true and if anybody disagrees I'll be rich from the law suit.

 

Yeah! I see now! We dont need a white guy to free the slaves! thats racist! Yeah and not a guy! Screw history!

 

Other guy: Hey I'm a wearwolf! *poof* waves arms. Cool thought they had fur though? Hey thats discrimnation aginst furless wearwolfs! I am so sorry! Still suing you, for the attention! I deserve it!

 

About the movie: One thing though shouldn't she have also been half post op man too? Right, those bigots. I was wrong, lets damage the studio and protest! Yeah!

 

First we got to get the dirt on this old dead guy though. I think he has some kids in the present? Can we get any money out of it? Yeah sure can! Racist sexist bastard, we just have to see how thats true. True? whats truth?

 

Never mind I'll just send my friend in to set him up and sue his granddaughter back in the future.

 

Oh yeah they deserve it! Hey afterword maybe we can nail that Christ dude! I read about laying on of hands! Yeah! Screw relgion cause were way so smart! Other guy: watch your grammar'' Girl: but I'm talking out load! Guy: sorry force of habit its how I win debates online!''

 

People are starting not to care anymore even with the constant barrage of propaganda. Most don't even really care about anyone else lifestyle but they don't want this idiocy shoved in there faces.

 

Its casing discord between races, genders, cultural elements even an upsurge in crime. Sadly, its true there is very little common ground for this reason.

 

 

Simply put if they have the rights to there beliefs and lifestyle and freedom of expression to hate and slander on public tv, to believe what they will, so do we!

 

We will never except it as the norm for all. Tolerance and equality under the law, is as far as it goes.

 

We wont be raped by there culture any more than they want to be by ours. We do not accept there expectations of extra entitlement above the common man. That cuts zero ice. You are not our gods.

 

Do as you will but don't hold out for dictator like universal culturally enforced approval.

 

Give it up, the circus is getting old, no one cares go home, shows over.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................

''Freedom to rock''-Alice Cooper.

 

Relax man, she ant worth it, sit down and have a cold one and lets think it over- M.B. Franklin Barkeep 1989

 

 

 

Trying to force a philosophy and way of life on others or else suffer is what they are saying. They are turning people against them that would not have given a flying flip one way or the other before now.

If you're referring to gay people, it's been known for over a half century that sexual orientation is unchangeable in humans. Five percent of us (I've never seen this number vary at all across formal studies over the years) are currently questioning our sexuality, and even for these 5% orientation doesn't change, only the realization and acceptance of orientation, and the other 95% of us know exactly what we are and it never changes at any time during our entire lives.

 

So given these facts, please explain what makes you believe it's even possible for either gay or straight people to "force" their "philosophy" or "way of life" on anyone else. Gay people are the ones who've been subjected to 3000+ years of not only forcing but institutionalized bigotry and even genocide, in addition to the social, family and religious stigmas associated with homosexuality. It's absurd to read attempts to spin their actual victimhood into a delusional one on heterosexuals, somehow an attack on their right to be bigoted morons. I get an even bigger kick out of hearing the phrase "gay lifestyle" or "gay way of life". News flash, the gay people I know get up every morning, they eat breakfast and go to work, come home, shower, watch some TV and then retire to bed either alone or with their partner. Can you please explain how this differs from your own "way of life"?

 

The truth is, gay people simply demanded and received enforcement of our 14th and other Amendments, which prohibit established second-class citizens and denial of due process etc in our country. IMO it's tragic that you apparently believe this enforcement somehow equates to an infringement on YOUR rights. As long as no enforceable civil laws against homosexuality exist in our country, the only right you're being denied is bigotry. If you don't like our Constitution please live elsewhere. The world still has no shortage of countries where this horrible gay agenda to end civilization isn't tolerated. I suggest Iran, where to this day gangs of clergy-police hunt down gay men, castrate them with knives and force-feed the genitals to their victims as they bleed to death. It's the emotionally honest version of the traditional Judeo-Christian view of homosexuals.

 

Wow man, way to go over the top. The law suits are part of it yes, the firings for honest opinion...but my main point is the extremist PC fanatics in there entirety and the cultural effect on those who don't share there views. These lunatics are trying to seize power and effect legislation!

 

Its not just that one part of it. Its even corrupting children, because they are going to far in the media and at the universities.

 

I never suggested the kind of thing your suggesting but now that you mention the numbers of people with gender ambiguity issues has skyrocketed there are not that many true transgender people in the world, kids don't even know who or what they are any more.

 

The parents are telling them they are gay and putting little boys in dresses. Everyone claims to be bi or almost. They dont know any better!

 

There is a gender war in the united states. Its causing misogyny and straight men on the other hand that don't act as men who are developing self hatred complexes and acting out.

 

White men feeling guilty about things that happened before there lifetime that they would never do themselves, feeling ashamed to be men in fact.

 

Its inducing a cultural psychotic state because people took well meaning issues of equality and tolerance under the law to the dizzy limit.

 

Like I said before I am for a fair balance, its this lunacy I oppose! This hypocrisy!

 

Everyone's an enemy to them, these fanatics, there paranoid and unstable. Its effected culture and art by dulling and causing selective perception.

 

This happened so they don't see physical differences because of this ultra liberal necrotic complex, they cant because it would contradict there belief system which ignores the basic law of identification, and all reason!

 

If things were as innocent as your making out there would be no issue, once it was so...but wake up and Take a look around you. There is a non stop barrage of propaganda and its not about equality they are going for superiority in effect trying to turn the majority into second class citizens!

 

People are just now waking up and realizing whats really happening.

Edited January 8, 2018 by skyquest32