why

[RedRavyn]

We all know that Skyrim epitomizes the whole concept of bug-infested games. It actually wouldn't surprise me if the game might occasionally glitch and exhibit the behavior which ScorpionHunter is describing, so don't just blow this off as an over-active imagination. I've seen stranger things in Skyrim and I'm in my sixth playthrough with four abandoned playthroughs because of accumulated quest/game-breaking glitches, including my first playthrough with no mods at all installed. Now, if this is happening regularly, rather than just rarely, I'd have to agree with BeastlyBeast. It's almost certainly a mod conflict of some sort, or, perhaps, a corrupt game save.

 

I've never encountered the unkillable opponent situation, although I did meet an ice mage, once, that just constantly spammed me with non-stop ice spikes for the entire battle. He clearly wasn't using up his magicka, since I even countered with lightning bolts and magicka poisons and this didn't slow him down at all. I just wish he was on my side. An ice-bolt gattling gun-wielding follower would be handy to have around. This is, however, a glitch related to what ScorpionHunter described -- an attribute apparently frozen at a particular point and which won't change.

[ScorpionHunter]

Forgot to mention, when you are killing higher level enemies, if you have their health low enough sometimes your hits or arrows miracularry start to have no effect, they "miss", that leads to "load game" Oh, and infinite mana for npc mages cool! Betheseda yes it truly adds realism... 298 hrs and still playing, must be something in this game, I have nice love & hate relationship with game lol Edited March 28, 2012 by ScorpionHunter

[ScorpionHunter]

He mentioned "over-imagination" , good term - this really isn't that - truth is (as you prolly know) that most games ai cheat, whether game makers intended to make game harder (cause every nerd play thru it so fast), or they are just stupid enough not to realize there are people playing the game, and AI cheating = they are cheating = not fair against players - like you can imagine I hate cheating games. say example NHL xxxx, I'm leading 5-0. Suddenly it's 5-5 in just 5 mins.... wee yes of course.... but why Bethesda would go that low? Well ask yourself a question; how many times have you read people write here, that game is too easy? There's your answer - BUT the way Bethseda does the cheating is so lame, it's so obvious, I mean did they even try to hide it? I personally wonder if someone disagrees with me, just because it's so obvious, and there are lots and lots of players, who have played 10x more than me, I mean I'm nub with this compared to them, maybe they just don't care, maybe I take this too seriously, maybe I should look "thru-fingers" this time and say yea yea it cheats so what; console kill

now it's fair. This is isn't just some frustration thread, like I said still playing and enjoying, most of the moments, but when it starts again (cheating, looks like some script which activates :D), it kinda ruins the game. Also to the guy who said that maybe I should choose easier level (btw very nice post thank you) I only have Adept level, tho I'm using Unlevelled World - which further confirmes that when I said; some matches are already decided before battle starts. Think about it me hiding at trees as archer lv2 against lv 40 warrior - doable as long as you hide after the shot, but some wicked reason - ptruu ain't gonna happen, probability that he sees you is immediately +500% + script that says lv2 can't win lv40. Also some two talked about hitboxes, and reach I agree with both you, it's true that weapons reach is way over in Skyrim as it was in oblivion, I made mod with realistic weapon reaches to Oblivion, but haven't figured out yet how to do it in Skyrim (cause they are grayed out when I try to change stock weapon data). As for hitboxes, I was fighting with one Forsworn *beep* and opened console and decided to watch, she was like very low level (I took light armor skill - cheating? definately :P) So she was hitting me and I checked the camera where I could clearly see the "hit box" - the blood effect was like 0.5 meter of me when she hit (compared to my char it's like half a meter), so the "hitboxes" are pretty *beep* up, if only I could change weapon reach data, that would help too, tho not to that cheating thingy. One must wonder why Bethseda make a game, I'd say game of the year, or couple or years ;) but still put these incredible stupid things in game, I mean it's like building a mansion and then burn it down. One more thing, to that one reply... if you're sentence "I used to be one of those people that always thought the AI was cheating... when I was a kid." was intended to describe you as younger person, I'd say yeah many others like that, pretty common, if that sentence was meant for me as with hidden insult, I suggest you take a look at my profile and then you can rethink ... you know.. about kid thingy. dot.

 

If you are reading this too, thanks for reading this and letting me share my experience with the game ... like I said love & hate relationship - I guess Jarl wants me now - I guess I should go and kill some dudes. Peace to all of you.

Edited March 28, 2012 by ScorpionHunter

[thompsonar]

"One more thing, to that one reply... if you're sentence "I used to be one of those people that always thought the AI was cheating... when I was a kid." was intended to describe you as younger person, I'd say yeah many others like that, pretty common, if that sentence was meant for me as with hidden insult, I suggest you take a look at my profile and then you can rethink ... you know.. about kid thingy. dot. "

 

No it wasn't meant as an insult. It is actually just the truth. When I was a kid I always thought the games I played were cheating me. Since then I realized I just wasn't very good at some games. I don't know that AI cheating is as prevalent as you say it is. But maybe it is. I really don't play many games anymore so I can't say honestly. I have just not encountered any of the "cheating" you describe in this game. I don't have as much play time as some, but I've gone through quite a few characters and probably 80-90 hours. Though the point brought up about endless mana I do agree with and have encountered, *!@#% mages.

[ScorpionHunter]

Ok mate, thx for clarifying that - I've been playing quite much also, and yea it's probably true that younger persons feel like they were cheated, when they die lol - I probably was the same kind. Anyway those cheating things .. well I just saw what the game can do, I went to a cave thought they were hostile and used eagle eye to shoot the guy in the head, sure shot, 100% certainty I hit - but what happened? he just greeted me and said we own this cave, turned out he is no enemy to me - so you see to what game is capable of. Of course that was pre-made script that player can't kill him - probably some quest essential man.

 

Anyway back to the point - there are many cases in my game where I'm almost killing someone, like he has so less health that I can one hit him, but what happens? He nails me - even if he hit me earlier many times and now my health is like half. It's cheating - game just feks with you - I bet Bethesda meant that, players get some challenge, but I still think that's not how to do it. I have one example of this in my video, I played the same situation many times before, then I decided; hey I should record this! So you see only the last moments of it. Anyway what happened, in one case I was hitting the mage full power, her health hardly went down. As I continued playing the same save again and again, things got wild they almost one hitted me and so on. Only easy enemy was that ugly one at the starting, which you can see hit me out of range (blame faulty weapon reaches and "hitboxes" by Bethseda). Yes I can hit as far as enemy, but still - when gaming I tend to think: "ok I have 0.5 meter sword" and of course adjust my movement to that - but forget that enemy hits like 2m far with same kind of sword, lame. I'd expect more from Bethesda... If only I could alter weapon reaches, that would help some, but too bad wouldn't eliminate AI cheating in general. - But yes it does that. THIS VIDEO CONTAINS inappropriate writing so beware

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6_W05bOxPI

 

critical eye yes, me

Edited March 29, 2012 by ScorpionHunter

[Bannor9]

You do realize that you are proving your entire argument wrong with that vid?

 

You are taking heavy damage from up to 3 targets at the same time. They have AI that allows them to use healing potions etc, so yeah, you can shoot one, do fairly major damage, and they can auto-heal with potions etc so that it APPEARS that they just magically heal?

 

I mean, where do you think all the loot you find on bodies comes from? It is in their inventory and they CAN and WILL use potions as defined by the AI?

[fraquar]

The only thing I ever had a problem killing was related to a mod - WiS, where they created basically an indestructible boss who purged the entire town of Riverwood, including me.

[ScorpionHunter]

Bannor9 - where did that link led you? What loot I didn't loot any1 lol

 

 

 

I don't use any mods which alter any npcs or add - except one - Herman the Mad - cool guy you all should meet him heh

Edited March 29, 2012 by ScorpionHunter

[Bannor9]

Bannor9 - where did that link led you? What loot I didn't loot any1 lol

 

 

 

I don't use any mods which alter any npcs or add - except one - Herman the Mad - cool guy you all should meet him heh

 

 

My point is not related directly to the fact that you did/did not loot a body. My point is that NPC characters almost always have loot of various types. In that loot is whatever they were carrying. MOST enemy higher level NPC's have higher level stuff, including, and this is my real point, including healing potions.

 

Your character is dying due to being attacked by 3 different folks, shoot magic at you and/or sword damage from the Drauger. That first magic user, the one shooting ice, is using a healing potion after you shoot it with the arrows etc...

 

So, yeah, I am directly attacking your statement that the game is "cheating" as it is not. The AI is actually very well thought out. It COULD be better, but Bethesda did a fair job with it as it currently exists.

 

Most of the times your player character is dying, your health is way low, and you are getting hit with up to 3 different attacks at once. So yeah, you are gonna die. Use your favorites menu, add a healing potion to the list, set it for the "6" key, and when your health drops, hit "6" and done... same with magicka, and stamina. using different keys of course.

 

That particular scenario, I have played through multiple times. My last character had very high sneak skills and very high pickpocket. Along with enchantments to armour and jewelry to boost both pickpocket and sneak to above the normal 100 mark. Using those skills I have snuck up on those magic users and stripped them of healing potions, and other stuff. So I know they carry them.

 

I have seen multiple cases in game where a magic user, while using some sort of magic shield (so they have that blue arc around them) will drink a healing potion and you won't notice it because they already have that blue arc. Where if they did NOT have a magic shield, you would notice the blue arc effect when they drank the potion.

 

The AI is not perfect, no AI can be. But it is really well written for most of the possible choices for AI attachments to the various NPC's. They have AI to move around and interact with the world around them. They have AI to attack, they have a set of AI to apply when they are hurt (they run away and duck) etc., they have AI to allow factions, catch thieves etc. So, yeah, the AI is VERY strong in this game.

 

Bethesda also gave us the ability to CHANGE that AI behavior. You can directly edit the scripts involved and replace them if the AI is doing something you don't like. So, you can improve or disable features all throughout the game. That is NOT including using the "cheats" to Toggle God Mode etc. So, your power as a player can be overbalanced or under-balanced or just changed to whatever suits your play style.

[RedRavyn]

Sorry ScorpionHunter, but I have to side with Bannor9, here, after watching your video. Did you hear Lydia say you were over-matched? She's absolutely right. I've fought through that battle six times, already. The mages there can kick butt at any level you go into that dungeon, if you're not very, very careful. You were under attack by two mages who were clearly more powerful than you were, as well as getting sliced and diced by a Draugr (the least of your worries at the time).

 

Been there, done that, learned that the best route is to go in with paralysis poisons and try my best to get sneak attacks (which you completely blew at the beginning with your wide shot that alerted everyone in the area that you were there). Yes, these guys will use their healing potions. Yes, they will use wards. Yes, they will use healing spells. All of that adds up to a tough fight if you're not willing to lay back and use whatever cover you can so you don't take a lot of damage all at once. You were trying to fight this battle, basically up-front-and-dirty, and when your health started dropping to dangerous levels you didn't run away and hide.

 

Be willing to run back to the beginning (they generally won't follow you -- generally, but not always. If necessary, exit to the outside. Heal up, regroup, go into sneak. Enter and swig an invisibility potion. Use whatever means you can to garner whatever advantages the game will give you. I didn't see any cheating in that video -- only you thinking you could withstand an onslaught of fire and ice.

 

I'm not trying to be over-critical, here, either. I've been in your shoes on too many occasions, myself, and have experienced that horrific coup de grâce coming out of nowhere. It was generally the result of my own lack of caution or sufficient preparation for the scenario in question. This particular dungeon is not that difficult, at any level -- if you approach it cautiously and go in prepared. As an aside, I'm not sure how the game scales your enemies, but I suspect that if you go into a battle with one or more companions the opposition will be tougher, and if you don't get proper support from your allies you'll be in deep trouble. Try doing this quest without Lydia. I never use followers, anyway, and seldom have problems, although there are some fights you just aren't supposed to win unless you are at a sufficiently-high level. Learn to walk away from those.