Sacrificing Lydia

[Lord Garon]

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I've been playing on Adept level since day one. This is my eighth playthrough and I've beaten the Main Quest once. I've beaten all the primary questlines (Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Bard's College, College of Winterhold) at least twice. I've beaten all the Daedric quests at least once. I've beaten most of the quests centering around the hold capitols at least three times. I'm really not having the problem staying alive that you are, and I honestly don't know why you're having that problem.

 

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@Red - Thanks again for your informative post. I tried again, and failed again. By failure, I mean that a plain mobs can usually kick my butt and more than one of them is a death squad. I hate to ask after your great post, but I wonder if you, or anyone else, can point out any problems with the levels/perks that might indicate my main problem. Mobs simply get me in 2-3 hits and it takes me 10-12 to get them, unless I get off a couple lucky critical hit arrows.

 

Level - 17 Archer/warrior

Magicka-130 Health-190 Stamina-180

 

Skill Level Perks

1hand 48 3/5 base, 1/3 Bone Breaker (superior steel mace)

Block 33 1/5 base, Power Bash (superior steel shield)

HArmor 32 2/5 base (superior steel all around)

Archery 42 3/5 base, 1/3 Critical Shot (fine dwarven bow)

Smith 24 Steel Smith

Sneak 44 1/5 base

Alchemy 31 none

Destruction 24 Novice

Restoration 32 Novice, Apprentice, Regeneration (need this cause I go through potions like an addict)

 

Any comments greatly appreciated. I'm simply stumped with this game now and won't clutter the forum any more. Just one last effort before I crank the difficulty down and just try to get my money's worth of play. Thanks to everyone who responded to my posts.

[Jacina]

Archery is rough until you get the crit in the stealth tree, normal shots just don't have enough "oomph", Stealth does get to the point where its rediculous and you can stealth away, you do need to pay attention to "natural" stealth spots a bit though (dark = good).

 

I think I did the thief quest rather quickly with my archer as that gave me a solid start on armor/weapons, both were top tier (I later "consoled" them to max level, as I think levelled quests are rediculous, also the top tier thief armor... the way its received makes you think you could swap it in later but nooo, so yeah I "cheated" once I hit the levels where I'd get them anyway)

 

Try to stick to dungeons that are low/in valleys, the higher up the tougher they are in general. Big tough bosses in wide open areas will ALWAYS be your doom as an archer, just try to see how you can use the environment to your advantage. Not sure which race you are, but some offer good skills for those really tough fights.

 

Get your stealth up to the x3 multiplier, keep working at your bow skills (shooting random rabbits/elk ;) )

 

I wouldn't worry about your stamina with an archer.

[BrettM]

These observations are all IMHO, of course, so take them for whatever they're worth. Wall O' Text ahead!

 

First, you seem to be adding to health and stamina in equal measure as you level. For a warrior, I think you will be far better off going for about a 4:1 ratio. Push your health and don't worry too much about stamina. Stamina doesn't help archery, and more health will help you survive better than an extra power attack or two with your mace. Don't put anything into magicka unless you're planning to go with some sort of warrior-mage build. If that's your intent, then stamina should still get the short end of the stick.

 

Second, don't try to perk too many skill trees, and be very selective about which perks you take in each tree. It isn't practical to try to be a jack of all trades, and the nine skills you have listed are about one or two too many. Perhaps three too many, since Enchanting isn't in your list and I think you will need it down the line. Your character isn't irreparable, but you need to decide right now exactly what kind of build you're aiming for and choose the skill trees that will contribute to that build most effectively.

 

You are probably going to want to perk the three crafting skills at some point, though starting on most of that is best left until around level 30. There are nine must-have perk points for Alchemy, 10 for Enchanting, and two for Smithing, so I plan the rest of my builds to ensure that I will be able to add these perks when I need them without gimping my combat skills. Also allow for any additional Smithing choices you will want for aesthetic reasons (such as a taste for ebony armor), but remember that these are optional since almost any armor in the game can be improved past the armor cap. Two of my three characters never used more than three Smithing perks total, and the third didn't use more than two until over level 50. The only crafting perk you need early is Steel Smithing, which you have.

 

The one must-have combat skill for all characters is Archery, in my opinion. You must have a means to do damage at range. Archery is the only choice for warriors and beginning mages are too weak to do much damage at range with spells. Also, bows far outrange spells. However, I find that Eagle Eye (forget the Steady Hand branch) and Power Shot are more important than Critical Shot, in addition to building up Overdraw. Quick Shot is nice to have eventually, especially if you're using heavier bows, but not essential. Just keep improving your bows -- with the aid of smithing potions when available -- and upgrading your arrow supply as opportunity permits.

 

Starting with the above as a base, you need to make some choices about the rest of the build using no more than three-four additional skill trees. For most builds this will be an armor skill, an offensive skill, and a defensive skill. With care from the beginning it is possible to stretch this to two offensive skills (such as One Handed and Destruction) or two defensive skills (such as Block and Sneak), but this is harder to pull off without gimping yourself somewhere.

 

You've already picked the heavy-armor track over the alternatives, so you'll have to work with that as a starting point. From there you can go with either warrior or battlemage builds. For the Heavy Armor skill, you can get by just fine working on the five Juggernaut perks and Well Fitted, while keeping up with armor improvements via Smithing.

 

If you go the battlemage route, then perking Block is totally counterproductive. Even if you use a shield some at first, your eventual goal is to always have a spell in your offhand, at which point any perks you put into blocking are totally wasted. You've only spent two perks on Block, so a Battlemage build is still possible for you if you choose to go that way. If you want to do this, then I think your best option is to concentrate perks in one offensive line (Destruction, Conjuration, or Illusion), plus Regeneration and Recovery in Restoration, plus necessary One Handed perks (Armsman, Fighting Stance). If you prefer the mace, then Bone Breaker is nice, but shouldn't be a high priority.

 

If you go the warrior route, then stop perking anything in magic lines immediately and don't put any more level bonuses into magicka. Yes, you may drink healing potions like a fish at first, but it will get better. Befriend every alchemist you can so you can take free low-level healing potions from their shops, and buy every healing potion you can from both alchemy and general merchants. You are better off keeping that shield in your offhand during combat and drinking potions. Save the healing spells for after the battle. Stick with building up the Armsman perks and, secondarily, the Shield Wall perks.

 

Given your current distribution of perks, I would advise against putting any more points into Sneak until much later, if ever. At this point you need to get the rest of your build planned, and then see what points, if any, you will be able to spare for Sneak. Believe it or not, I have a heavy-armor, two-handed character (level 56 now) without a single point in Sneak who can practically walk up to a bandit and spit in his eye without even crouching. You can make use of stealth archery and get the double sneak-attack bonus even without perking Sneak (though that does make it easier, particularly in heavy armor).

 

Figure in your planning that you should have all essential perks for your build and probably some nice-to-have perks by the time you hit level 50, so you have 50 points to work with. Everything after that is gravy, in my book. As a sample, based on my own definition of "essential":

 

7 Archery

6 Heavy Armor

6 One Handed

6 Block

9 Alchemy

10 Enchanting

2 Smithing

 

This totals 46 perks for the build spread across seven skill trees, so you can see that they have to be allocated carefully. Adding more skill trees will reduce your ability to properly perk others, resulting in a collection of half-baked skills.

 

One another note: frankly, I see no shame in using a reduced difficulty setting, particularly for a first playthrough. Not everyone has the reflexes of a 20-year-old fighter jock, and some people take longer than others to get the hang of a game's controls and combat techniques. Reducing the difficulty until you gain confidence and your body learns the right motor skills will reduce your frustration and let you have more fun. Isn't fun why we play games?

Edited April 12, 2012 by BrettM

[Lord Garon]

 

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This totals 46 perks for the build spread across seven skill trees, so you can see that they have to be allocated carefully. Adding more skill trees will reduce your ability to properly perk others, resulting in a collection of half-baked skills.

 

One another note: frankly, I see no shame in using a reduced difficulty setting, particularly for a first playthrough. Not everyone has the reflexes of a 20-year-old fighter jock, and some people take longer than others to get the hang of a game's controls and combat techniques. Reducing the difficulty until you gain confidence and your body learns the right motor skills will reduce your frustration and let you have more fun. Isn't fun why we play games?

 

Oh man, Brett; you and the other people here are just great. I know I can crank the slider down, but there is just "something" about doing that.

 

I'm glad I didn't post the specs of my 26th level guys. They are absolutely half-baked characters. I didn't get the real idea of "specializing skills" until your post. I have just started a new character based on RedRavyn and other's ideas. I can merge all this latest info into my guy. I know I said I'd stop cluttering the place up, but I have to at least say thanks for your time. So, Thanks!

[RedRavyn]

I really can't add a whole lot to what BrettM said. I think he's pretty much spot-on regarding salvaging your current character.

 

What I will say, though, is that my approach is to create a balanced mage-archer with a concentration in Stealth. I generally let Health lag Magicka, and I let Stamina lag Health. I rely a LOT on healing spells, and get Fast Healing at the first opportunity. In magic I concentrate upon Destruction, and use fire more than frost more than shock. I'll dual cast both Flames and Frostbite early in the game as a devastating attack, and only pull out my weapon of choice (usually a sword or greatsword) as a last resort. I'll try to snipe opponents with a bow from a position of safety long before I even get to that point. I'm not afraid to run away from a fight, regroup, and then re-engage, even if it means leaving a "dungeon" completely.

 

As Farengar says, your greatest weapon is your mind. You can succeed even with a "broken" build, if you play to your strengths and against your enemy's weaknesses. A lot of this is understanding the game, how it works, and how opponents behave. You learn that as you play, and you'll get better even though things may seem rocky right now. You don't have to have the reflexes of a 20-year old athlete to play this game. Believe it or not, I'm 63.

 

Wits will serve you. Play smart with whatever you have and you'll probably be survivable. Part of "smart" is knowing when to walk (or run) away from an encounter, too. I just, for the first time in my current playthrough, took my 10th level character up against a giant -- naked with no weapons or armor or anything, except for a few novice-level spells. I beat him, but it wasn't because I was "better". I was smarter. I took advantage of the terrain, knowing there were places he couldn't go. It took a long time. I spent a long time "recharging" and running. It's like that with most encounters, too. Use the environment effectively. Bethesda designed most places so that you can hide and snipe from behind cover, and sometimes position yourself so your opponents can't even get to you for melee attacks.

 

I generally play like a commando because that's what I know from Real Life. On the few times I've gone "Rambo" in this game I've been badly beaten. On the other hand, I suppose I should expect that, since I wear light armor and don't put a lot of perks into any of the melee weapon trees.

[Lord Garon]

I really can't add a whole lot to what BrettM said. I think he's pretty much spot-on regarding salvaging your current character.

 

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I generally play like a commando because that's what I know from Real Life. On the few times I've gone "Rambo" in this game I've been badly beaten. On the other hand, I suppose I should expect that, since I wear light armor and don't put a lot of perks into any of the melee weapon trees.

 

A final update so that all the responders know how their advice actually worked out.

 

Pretty well, I would say. I bit the bullet and started over with a new character. I guess my original problem was a Jack-of-all-Trades mindset. As a role player, I wanted my guys to just evolve in skills and perks as my play style dictated. Didn't work. So I "built" a stealthy Archer and worked on crafting skills.

 

Got a 46th level Archer-Firemage now, heavy in stealth, with smith/enchant/alchemy perks. Just had a two dragon (ancient and frost) fight outside Roriksted(sp?) and took them both out with only magic and potions. I had wanted to play a mage, so that fight was pretty satisfying.

 

Stealth is definitely OP; I plonked 3 Deathlord Draugrs at arm's length with a bow and was never detected by any of them. So, I've come to figure out the somewhat skewed skill and perk progression needed for this game. I would not have approached it like that without everyone's help; thanks a lot.

 

I think I'm gonna try one more character; an alchemist. That character will require constant work, rather than reaching an invulnerable stealth plateau.

 

Thanks, again. I'm "bending" the game to my will now, rather than the other way around.

[RedRavyn]

You know, it's little success stories like this that make all the time that people spend trying to give advice worthwhile. I'm really happy for you. Skyrim can be an addictive game, and you can get hours, even days and months, of enjoyment out of it, as long as you aren't getting your butt kicked from Riften to Markarth by the "common rabble" that inhabits the wide open spaces between them.

 

A little of it is "working the game". There are things built into the system you can take advantage of, and you're figuring out how to make them work for you. A little of it is smart character design and evolution, and it seems like you're starting to get the hang of that. And, a lot of it is adjusting your playstyle to accommodate the strengths and weaknesses of your character, and a good character will have both. If he doesn't, he will be, as you've discovered, incredibly mediocre at everything. This means that any NPC (or even creature) that shines at one thing will use that one thing to blow you right out of the water.

 

Congrats on becoming part of the "Smart Players Club"!