Managing the Load Order...

[cortex56]

I keep seeing topic after topic of Manual Load Ordering not being a part of Vortex.

I have been using Vortex for a couple days now and I have to tell you that Manual Load Ordering is there. It's just handled differently.

 

In Vortex to Manually change your load order;

grab the dependencies icon of the esp you want to move up or down, drag it to the esp you want to load it after. Release the icon.

a window will pop up giving you the rule you want to apply to the esp you moved.

You can either confirm it or cancel it and start over. If you confirm it, the rule will be applied and no matter how many times you run LOOT, that esp will not change positions.

If you want to remove that rule from the esp, it is a two click process, click the dependencies icon, click the (-) sign for the rule that was applied.

 

The nice thing is, you can set rules that wont change when running LOOT, but also, you can set global values for any esp to load higher or lower in the list.

These two forms of load ordering stack, giving you more control over plugins than you had with NMM.

 

Global values that are higher load lower in the load order (100) loads after (0), (-100) would load high in the load order.

 

Vortex is fast and easy once you get through the learning curve.

 

The one thing not YET available in Vortex is individual file conflict resolutions, meaning you can not cherry pick the files from one mod to over ride the files of another mod.

I did read where Tannin stated that was on the ToDo list.

[HalfLazy]

Guys: Learning Damn Curve. That's all...

 

Really, it's a piece of cake when you get used to it and, in less than 3 days (a couple of hours a day), I've:

-Totally reinstalled 250 Mods from 0

-Lerned the EXACT conflict with the EXACT files involved (and found one that I've missed so far)

-Defined a Ruleset that, no matter how much mods I throw into the bucket randomly, it remains good

-In case there's some extra problem Vortex tell me what kind of problem is and which files are involved

-Update things with a few click and 30 seconds in total of wait

 

And I'm a random moron!

 

Now I'm testing the game modded and, so far, I had no problem.

 

The point is that most of us (after facing/solving huge mess, debugs, load orders, full uninstall/reinstall) are afraid to throw ourself into another maybe/possible/potential/IDontKnowBut mess-solving-nightmare (other are just lazy to learn a new "moveset", sorry Guys, I'm just being honest, no offence).

 

 

Seriously: give it a try with clear mind and the will to learn and in half-hours you'll know almost everything you need to...

 

 

EDIT: Yes, a couple of extra Info button would be nice, because they're never enough, and there's room for other improvement.. but... com'on that's logical... It's why there's an alpha and a beta test....

Edited February 3, 2018 by HalfLazy

[Ethreon]

Ugh..

 

It's not COMPLEX or COMPLICATED, it's TEDIOUS and ANNOYING. Not exactly hard to understand how to setup priorities lads, so drop that nonsense.

[HalfLazy]

Sorry but this discussion is pointless: "Drag&Drop" Vs "Click&Apply"? Really?

We do because we must: playing the game with mod is the fun, managing the mods conflicts it's a necessity...

 

If you think that Vortex dosen't suits your needs about, use something else that does...

Edit:(I mean really, not as provocation)

Edited February 3, 2018 by HalfLazy

[Robbie922004]

People are talking like the LOOT rules method and the manual ordering method of arranging your load order are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not. Even with Vortex installed as your only mod manager, you can go manually adjust your load order using the game's native UI. You can even use NMM to rearrange mods and it will be reflected in Vortex in real time from what I've been told. There is no reason for there to be an extra step required of opening the game or worse, an external mod manager, to do manually move mods around. It just puts an extra step on the end user.

 

I make use of LOOT rules frequently with LOOT itself so I'm not a stranger to the system (even if I was new, it's a very simple system that takes no time to learn) and I don't need to adjust to the "learning curve". But it's an incredibly tedious alternative for when you just want to move one plugin to a certain spot. I wouldn't ever use that for when I'm bumping mods rapid-fire around my load order during testing, because it's just an overly convoluted method. Especially when I can just do it the easy way from NMM or the game itself instead. Rearranging mods is the single most basic feature of mod management, and I'm actually really shocked that Vortex not having that option is even on the table, much less being doubled down on.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Robbie922004

[simsrw73]

Rearranging mods is the single most basic feature of mod management, and I'm actually really shocked that Vortex not having that option is even on the table, much less being doubled down on.

 

I don't have access to Vortex yet, so I may be talking out my butt, but I've ready every message posted so far and I've yet to see one person show one concrete, real world example where Vortex's method does not work, where Vortex's method is more cumbersome, etc. It's different. Trying to use it the way you used previous managers makes it cumbersome, but using as it is intended should work, with less user effort. Theoretically. Again, I don't have it. I'm just trying to get my head around it. But I don't see one concrete example where it does not work, where drag and drop ordering is needed.

[Robbie922004]

 

Rearranging mods is the single most basic feature of mod management, and I'm actually really shocked that Vortex not having that option is even on the table, much less being doubled down on.

 

I don't have access to Vortex yet, so I may be talking out my butt, but I've ready every message posted so far and I've yet to see one person show one concrete, real world example where Vortex's method does not work, where Vortex's method is more cumbersome, etc. It's different. Trying to use it the way you used previous managers makes it cumbersome, but using as it is intended should work, with less user effort. Theoretically. Again, I don't have it. I'm just trying to get my head around it. But I don't see one concrete example where it does not work, where drag and drop ordering is needed.

 

I don't think anybody is saying it doesn't work at all. I can't speak for everyone but what I'm saying is that it is significantly less convenient to have to go in and make a LOOT rule when you want to nudge something somewhere than just doing it like literally every other mod manager, and the games themselves. Having to set priorities for a large load order is very tedious.

 

And again don't get me wrong, I'm a user of LOOT priority settings already. It's good for mainstays in my load order that I know I want in certain spots after a sort. It is not good for when you want to make a quick adjustment, test, and make another adjustment, etc. The thing is that right now using NMM (or Wrye, or MO, or even the game's own menus) I can use LOOT, set up my priorities, and then tweak from there. If things work after testing, I set up permanent priorities for them. Vortex doesn't make this step impossible, it just means I have to open the game or an external manager to do it. Another important thing is that when I'm done testing or making adjustments, if I goof up, I run LOOT again and everything is where it should be. With the new system I have to go manually remove the rules I've set up to get things back to where they were, instead of just not needing to set them up in the first place.

 

At the end of the day, Vortex is not going to stop me from making those adjustments, it's just going to make it a lot more annoying and require me to use another program, be it the game or another manager. And if I have to use another program to manage mods, it defeats the entire point of a mod manager.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Robbie922004

[Deleted133263User]

Robbie (I dont have Vortex yet so do not know ..) - Does Vortex refresh its Load Order if you run LOOT separately?

 

So given your scenario of setting a thousand and one rules you cant possibly remember the previous sequence, run LOOT externally to get the Load Order back to the basic good to go stage .. Then go back to Vortex : Has it now adopted the new Load Order set by LOOT ?

 

I know Wrye Bash does this if you run LOOT externally (or even via an App Icon added to Wrye Bash toolbar), after LOOT has done its thing, as soon as you refocus on Wrye Bash Mods Window the Load Order is as per the Load Order just set by LOOT.

[masternetra]

Loot is fine and all but there are mods that conflict with each other and some people may want a specific one to override the other in the conflicts for X reason(s). Using priorities instead of drag and move complicates things more not simplifies them.

[masternetra]

 

 

Rearranging mods is the single most basic feature of mod management, and I'm actually really shocked that Vortex not having that option is even on the table, much less being doubled down on.

 

I don't have access to Vortex yet, so I may be talking out my butt, but I've ready every message posted so far and I've yet to see one person show one concrete, real world example where Vortex's method does not work, where Vortex's method is more cumbersome, etc. It's different. Trying to use it the way you used previous managers makes it cumbersome, but using as it is intended should work, with less user effort. Theoretically. Again, I don't have it. I'm just trying to get my head around it. But I don't see one concrete example where it does not work, where drag and drop ordering is needed.

 

 

Vortex by default does it automatically (you can turn the auto-sort off though and just run it manually).

As for where it is needed, it's needed with managing conflicting plugins,yes you have "priorities" but that is needlessly more complicated then it needs to be. Having loot manage by default is fine, but drag & move is still better way of dealing with mod conflicts in the manner suited to the user's interests.

Edited February 3, 2018 by masternetra