Question about skyrim to the real fans of Bethesda

[worldofscotty]

Skyrim vanilla is the same as you would expect.

 

The graphics are awesome but its the same engine underneath it all. A few bugs here and there but mostly just funny ones now. I walked past a mammoth today which was floating dead upside down a 5 feet off the ground.

 

 

A major problem with modding complex games is that they break very easily when you pull on their strings. I think they kept this in mind and the objects within the world are quite simple.

 

I like to think that the reason there are only about 5 voices in the whole game is a positive as we can easily mix and match what people say giving us more options.

 

Is it better than Fallout 3? I think it's much more immersive, but as a base modless game I'd say definitely not. With current mods I'd say its far better.

 

Skyrim is purely designed for modding and the mods are really amazing right now with more to come.

 

Love this game. I'm 415 hous played and I still havn't anywhere near completed it. I think my highest is about level 41

Edited April 16, 2012 by worldofscotty

[ElricOfGrans]

Oblivion GOTY was the final patch. You are comparing the completely patched Oblivion with largely unpatched Skyrim and saying that Oblivion was less buggy... am I the only one who can see this is obviously a poor comparison to draw?

 

Using the Oblivion Thieves' Guild as an example of its bugginess (since you cited it), there was a well-known issue with following the quest-line while a member of the Mages' Guild. You did not have to do any of the Mages' Guild quests, merely be a member. There where several quests that, if both active at the same time, would break your game. You could break the game by stealing things (as a thief!). You could make the game unprogressable by tresspassing(!), or even picking locks(!!) (as a thief!!). There where many other scripting issues where quests could break due to absolutely no fault of your own. Your own personal experiences with Oblivion may have been less-buggy than your own personal experience with Oblivion, but the bigger picture is that Oblivion (on release) was less stable and buggier than Skyrim (on release).

[Modslave]

Skyrim is good.

 

Only thing that cranked me off about it was pre-release how the devs spent all their time talking about how they'd made a whole new engine for the game and thats why it looked so incredible.

 

Then it came out and I was like....goddammit this is still Gamebyro you noobs.

[dreamsofcats]

To those who've played at least 200 hrs. of Bethesda Games....

 

short introduction...I started with Oblivion in 2008, first 3D Roleplay adventure...loved it..and love it still. Moved on to Fallout 3(and Vegas). There could hardly be anything more contrasting...but...Fallout 3 is a beautiful world in its own right. I played all games mostly vanilla and then added mods after the main quests. To be honest I think it's the fantastic mods for these games that make them endless ...plus the construction set and so on. I've probably got around 150-200 active mods per game and as far as I'm concerned I'll just keep adding. My question is this, regarding Skyrim...I've seen quite a few trailers but couldn't yet decide to get the game. Is Skyrim, for the real Bethesda die-hards out there, more challenging, exciting, creative, innovative than what we've seen so-far ? Skyrim has great reviews but I'd prefer some opinions from real gamers.

 

I find the term "real gamers," unnecessarily divisive, but I'll answer nonetheless. I crashed through the 1000 hour barrier with Bethesda long ago - I don't bother keeping track any more. I've trekked through Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and now Skyrim. Also, I've played maybe 300-400 hours of Fallout 3.

 

I don't find any of Bethsoft's titles particularly challenging or innovative, but I enjoy them immensely. Skyrim feels like a step in the right direction, at least in terms of the series' evolution. When I step into Skyrim, I feel right at home. I recognize the play mechanisms, some of the voice actors, art direction, and even level design. It all feels rather organic. For others, those same characteristics scream "been there, done that." They find little to enjoy in the game. I'm enjoying the evolution of the game play in Bethsoft titles; glad I'm aboard for the ride.

 

Based on your use of language in the post, seems like you came here hoping we'd convince you, or help you overcome your hesitation. I say — go with your gut! If you have doubts, trust your instincts.

 

I don't think you'll like the game. Setting the graphics aside, Skyrim is only an incremental step or two above Oblivion. Based on what I've seen on the TES boards, many people who really dug Oblivion find themselves bored by Skyrim. You might consider skipping Skyrim, or borrowing a friend's copy when he or she is done with it.

 

I love the game, and will probably spend hundreds of hours exploring it. Unfortunately, my personal enjoyment doesn't translate into anything meaningful regarding the experience of others.

 

Whatever you decide, hope it works out well for you.

[BlackCompany]

Whether or not you will like Skyrim depends entirely upon what you are looking for in a game.

 

Complexity:

 

If you like complex quests and decisions that will matter and alter your game world, avoid Skyrim at all costs. Better to get the Witcher 2. If on the other hand, you prefer simple, straight forward, fetch-and-kill Skyrim is for you. Most of the "Radiant Quests" are little more than simplified, MMO style fetch and kill stuff. No soul. No emotion. No choices or consequences.

 

 

Guilds/Factions:

 

If you like long, involved guild quests that require you to rise in rank slowly, get Kingdoms of Amalur. If on the other hand you can overlook shallow, empty Guild quests where you can lead every guild inside of one day's play time each go ahead and try Skyrim. The speed with which you can lead every guild in Skyrim is astonishing in its stupidity. As is the fact that you can lead every guild without consequence. Utterly ridiculous Guild quests without choices or consequences - they are all fetch and kill - mean that replay value for Guild quests is completely lacking. You will never replay them to see how other choices play out, since there are no other choices.

 

 

Combat:

 

If you want exciting, over the top combat with physics and staggering and real impact, get Witcher 2 or Kingdoms of Amalur. If you want Tactical, get Legends of Grimrock (get it anyway.) Other than Shield Bash and Power Attacking, without mods, Skyrim's combat and its weapons lack weight and impact. Without mods, combat is A for attack, B for block and shield bash - which NPC's almost never make use of in vanilla - is overpowered in the extreme. In combat, unmodded, NPC's are hopelessly stupid, to an embarrassing degree even.

 

 

Loot and Exploration:

 

Loot in Skyrim is the same generic s*** from Oblivion. Literally, it could have been copy/paster from one set of leveled lists to another .Enchanted crap is everywhere in vanilla, overpowered and not in the least special. You see it all the time, from bandits to vampires to Draugr. Finding something magical feels routine by level 10 and boring thereafter. Exploring - a favorite part of open world gaming for me - is neither worthwhile nor intriguing. Everywhere you go, you find the same things. Which brings me to:

 

 

Bestiary/Enemies:

 

They are the same. Everywhere. Draugr are the only undead type. Well, them and skeletons. Some vampires, here and there. Dragons. And wildlife. And that's it. Period. The list of enemies in Skyrim is pathetically slim and grows old so fast finishing the main quest is an absolute chore. More like work than play. The lack of enemy variety also makes combat repetitive in the extreme, and the unrealistic wildlife is painful to watch. Every animal is suicidal, from wolves to bears to f***ing crabs. Simply ridiculous.

 

 

RPG vs Action:

 

There are no RPG elements in Skyrim. Period. You have levels. Each level, you get 1 skill point. Choose a perk with it. Many perks are redundant. Without mods, you will take the same perks for every weapon skill and magic skill, time and again.

 

Persuasion is gone, or near enough. And when you see it, there is no "chance" it works. Ditto for Intimidation. Almost never shows up, and never makes a difference when it does.

 

There are choices, nor any consequences. Quests are straight forward and never branch. There is no replay value to the MQ, since you can only ever choose one side, one alliance, and one path. The same holds true for every other set of quests the game features.

 

 

Conclusion:

 

If you want an open world action game with combat from 2006, without choices, consequences or RPG elements, get Skryim. Environs are gorgeous to look at, Dragons are cool for about 3 hours, and exploring can be nice.

 

If you want an RPG, with choices, consequences and replay value, get the Witcher 2 or even Kingdoms of Amalur. Amalur's world and combat get redundant, too, but the writing stands head and shoulders above Skyrim and Bethesda.

 

Skyrim is not an RPG. If you are prepared to overlook that - and I mean really prepared - go ahead and buy it. But for those looking for an RPG I recommend you keep looking.

[RedRavyn]

Sheesh! And I thought I was being over-critical, then BlackCompany comes along and puts me to shame. While I agree with most of what you said, I really do have to take you to task for a few points. Skyrim isn't that bad. It's almost that bad. It's also pretty good. I don't think I've ever played a game that's such a mixed bag of the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Anyway ...

 

Complexity: Yes, the quests are terribly simple. At least most of them are. To complain about this regarding radiant quests, though, is simply unfair. What is a radiant quest, anyway? Here's the formula: Go 'kill <this actor>' | 'fetch <this item' 'in <this place>'. All the fill-in-the-blanks are drawn from lists at random, or at least semi-random, since many radiant quests are intended to be done in the general vicinity of the quest-giver. But that's all they are. I don't even bother with them any more unless they're required by a particular faction (like all the "odd job" quests for the Companions).

 

Guilds/Factions: I really don't think they're all that shallow. What they are is too short. Even the MQ can be easily completed in one afternoon of playing. The quests don't do the gameworld of Skyrim justice. They could have been so much more, had the game designers spent the time to craft real stories. Frankly, I just think Bethesda needs to hire better writers. The current ones simply lack the creativity to write engaging story-lines. Even so, in a game like this there's little else to do but fetch and kill. I'm convinced that Skyrim was targeted for 12-year-old console gamers with attention deficit disorder, even though it has an "M" rating. And you don't become guildmaster of the Bard's College. That's really the only thing they did right with quests, compared to Oblivion -- then they ruined it by including, really, only one solid quest and three "fetch" quests.

 

Combat: Well, it's better than Oblivion. I'll give it that, even though it's not saying much.

 

Loot and Exploration: Same-same, yes. Different stuff, same experiences, though. I never liked the leveled loot system in Oblivion and I don't like it in Skyrim. Finding a magic item should just about be the high point of the day. After level ten or so it's more like "Oh. Another one of those. Well, I can sell it, I guess, even though I really don't need the money." Let's face it. Games like this are written for players who are into instant gratification, and who really don't want to work hard for what they get. A lot of the mods that are available just expand upon this concept, too. Bethesda is going to write for their audience, and I think they have a pretty good idea of who those people are.

 

Bestiary/Enemies: They did a little better this time around, in my opinion, than they did in Oblivion, with the exception of pruning out most of the more interesting undead and Daedra. The wildlife is more varied and better implemented. The humanoid enemies (and potential enemies) are more varied and interesting. It's not nearly as easy to predict what an opponent can do just by seeing him as it was in Oblivion. That "bandit" might well be a battle-mage in disguise.

 

RPG vs Action: I've seen some of the fanboys on this board arguing that Skyrim is so good because it's an RPG. You're right. This is not an RPG. I've been involved in RPGs since 1970, even before there was a Dungeons and Dragons and Gary Gygax was a moving force in table-top gaming. That's 42 years. How many people who play Skyrim are even half that old? I know role-playing. I'm good at it. I've even designed role-playing games and created "modules" for some of the existing commercial ones. Trust me. There is no role-playing AT ALL built into Skyrim. Nothing you do alters the story-line in any way. You start at point "A", Bethesda lets you meander about for a bit, and you end at point "B". All pre-ordained by the writers. Even if you choose sides in the Civil War questline, the outcome is pretty much the same.

 

Conclusion: I think that to really get something out of this game, past the first time you play it through without any mods (and be the "good gamer" and do all the primary quests like Bethesda tries its best to strong-arm you into doing), you have to resort to mods and you have to ignore the primary quests. Play the game like you want to, rather than the way Bethesda tries to make you do it, and you'll probably have a much more satisfying gaming experience. Skyrim can be good, but it's up to the player to make it so.

[BlackCompany]

RedRavyn clarifies some things nicely. Namely, the good and the bad. I agree: Never have I seen such a blend of both in one game.

 

Also, I feel compelled to admit: RedRavyn nailed something I tried to convey as well: What is here, is better than Oblivion. Graphically, the game is superior to Oblivion in every way. Combat is more varied. Its still not exciting, but it is improved. Quests, while still very transparently fetch-and-kill in setup, tend to have a little back story to them.

 

Factions are more fleshed out in terms of dialogue; you can get to know each member better than Oblivion offered. But what there is of the factions and their quests, is not even half what Oblivion offered. In other words, members have more depth and quests more personality and urgency. But the trade off is less than half of both, compared to Oblivion.

 

As far as getting something out of the game, I sort of agree. With Oblivion, I could just meander about the world, discovering more things to do than I could reasonable get to in, I don't know...a lifetime. Seriously. Now, to be fair, the thousands of mods had something to do with this. A lot, in fact.

 

And Skyrim will one day have the same going for it on PC. For now, though, try as I might I can find no compelling reason to go back to Skyrim. I tire of the same enemies, the same loot, the same fetch and kill treadmill. Perhaps mods will make the game more compelling one day. But for now, if I had not bought the game and still knew what I know now, I would honestly skip it entirely.

[SubjectProphet]

All you need is a few armor mods and Skyrim is perfect. My answer: buy it, you won't regret it.

[Cipherthe3vil]

200? Why, I've already got near 400 for Skyrim alone. Just wish it was multiplayer so it feels more fulfilling ^_^;

 

 

 

I... I sorta think Bethesda cheated us with Skyrim.

I've long considered the Elder Scrolls to be PC gamer games for a great roleplaying adventure.

 

But Skyrim pretty much pisses on us I think.

They did very little, barely anything it seems, to have Skyrim a PC game. As displayed by its horrible interface clearly optimized for a Console and terrible navigation. You have to use the keyboard sometimes, mouse other times, ugh...

 

Then, I feel the guilds are skimped, quest lines are too short, dungeons aren't very free-roaming and tend to have only one path to follow.

 

Skyrim does what I feel is the worst thing Roleplaying games could possibly do: It Railroads you on many occasions.

Similarly, but not so seriously, the Dialogue options are very lacking in most situations. As to dialogue, they could take from Mass Effect... Mass Effect usually has satisfactory dialogue options that more express a general idea you want to get across... Then you find that your character is actually voiced to say something similar to what you conveyed through the dialogue options.

 

Thats not to say the dirt-poor entry segment with the bindings that don't let you do scat, even though everyone else was bound and is now roaming free. But nooooo not the player... the player character is too stupid to get their own bindings off when the other prisoners can.

 

Do I recommend Skyrim? Yes. But only for the PC so you can eliminate most problems through mods or ~ commands.

[yota71]

as i said countless time what Blackcompany searching its not a solo game, for make what you like reality you need multiplayer (not MMO), you cannot deep craft your char, make him have a story (and truly this marry thing is useless the Beth progammers must learn from DAO one of the best romancing system) the only thing that i find stupid in game is the loot system all the same thig to simple to find and too repetitive, but every thing is better than oblivion (only 200 hours of game against the 900+ of skyrim) at least the NPC not every time talk about the mudcrab -_-

 

And yes i forgotten the AI not so stupid like in Oblivion (-_-) but not that better

 

Nothing against you Blackcompany just an opinion