Skyrim: An Experiment in Psychology

[dukethepcdr]

I've been installing and trying out mods almost as long as I've been playing the game. In some ways, customizing and modifying the game is almost more fun than just playing through it. I've become fascinated by the amazing ideas that the modding community has come up with on Skyrim Nexus.

 

I'm no psychiatrist nor a psychoanalyst myself, but I am someone who is really curious about how everything (including the mind) works. I'm curious about what drives a person playing Skyrim to say 'I want to change the way this game looks or works'. Especially to go to the trouble of actually creating a mod or mods that they can apply to the game in an attempt to actually cause the change. I've downloaded the Creation Kit and tried using it, but found it mind boggling. I have no idea how to use it. Yet, people have been modding Skyrim even before the kit came out. Simply amazing.

 

If you have, or are in the process of, modding Skyrim, I'd love to know what you were thinking of when you decided to make a mod. Have you been modding other games in the past and it has become a hobby for you? Are you new to modding and was curious about trying it? Do you have aspirations of making your own game and use modding as practice for making aspects of games? Whatever it is, I think it would be very interesting to see your thoughts about modding.

 

I also am curious about how we, as players, choose the mods to download from sites like Skyrim Nexus. What is it about being able to change the game you are playing that interests you? Is it a curiosity thing where you find yourself thinking 'lets install this mod and see what happens'? Is it a feeling that the 'vanilla' game is too flawed or too boring as it is straight out of the box? Whatever it is, it would also be interesting to see the gamers' point of view when it comes to downloading mods and running the game with them.

 

I am personally, in the camp of the gamers who download mods. I would like to make games or at least conversions of existing games, but I simply don't seem to have the patience, perseverance and/or mindset to get through learning the coding and wireframe manipulating aspects of most games' modding kits to be able to do it. I wish I knew a 'modding savant' who I could work with so I could share ideas with them for dialog, designs, scenes etc. and let them do the part of making the modding software bend to our wills.

 

Using mods, to me, is like experimenting. I like the 'lets' try this and see what happens' aspect of it. Sometimes, the mod turns out to be something really special that really enhances the game. Other times, it's barely noticeable. Still other times, it crashes the game or makes it somehow play worse. In any case, it's an interesting 'meta game' that really extends the replayability of these games.

 

Even just looking through the ever increasing lists of mods on the Nexus is interesting to me. I find myself wondering why people made some of these mods. I'm looking forward to seeing what you think about making mods for games, using mods in games as a player or both.

[Rooker75]

The mods I install or create are usually to adjust things that annoy me in the default version of the game or to fix bugs. For instance, the very first mod I installed was to remove all kill animations because I find them to be annoying. Another was to force a certain dog to stop sprinting into the player from behind. Another fixes conjuration spells so they aren't broken by the perk that lets you absorb magic that's cast on you. etc., etc.

 

I've also made some tweaks for myself that I'm debating whether or not to upload. One increases the damage buff from the Destruction perks "Augment." Another adds Light Armor and Archery skills to the Warrior standing stone, because their absence from it doesn't make any sense to me. Another increases the effectiveness of the Mage Armor perks.

[RedRavyn]

I haven't modded anything for Skyrim, yet, although I did a lot of "private" modding for a friend and me for Oblivion. As far as Skyrim is concerned, I add mods that accomplish the following things.

 

1. Alleviate annoyances in the game: A good example is using "Ultra Realistic World Lighting", combined with "Imaginator", to adjust the (to my eyes) very badly designed default lighting in the world -- especially the washed-out look. Another is "Stones of Barenziah DROPPABLE."
2. Fix bugs: The "Unofficial Skyrim Patch" is a must-have. I'm still waiting for some of my "favorite bugs", like followers trying to occupy the same place I do, to be fixed throughout the game, and I'm following a few other bug-fix mods to see where they're going before I install them.
3. Add in intentional or accidental omissions: Did you know that the game can support a Cure Disease spell, and Vigilants of Stendarr can use this magic effect, but there is no such spell available for player use? "Higher Magic Enchanting Unlocker" fixes this, as well as a few other omissions, but can be badly abused, since much of what it adds could be considered "cheating". I just don't use those particular features of the mod. I can forge the mightiest weapons in Skyrim, but the lowly arrow is beyond my capability? Really? That's why I put "Craftable Arrows" in my load order.
4. Enhance features of the game I find to be lackluster: Good examples of this are "SkyUI" and "Destruction Reworked", all of which rework parts of the game that I thought were just badly designed.
5. Increase immersion and realism: While it has some problems, "SkyTEST - Realistic Animals and Predators" does wonders for helping this old biologist to suspend his disbelief when playing Skyrim. "Pure Waters" does for water what the previous mod does for critters. I'm still sorting out a lot of competing immersion and realism mods. It took years for things to stabilize in Oblivion. I suspect it will for Skyrim, too. I'm still looking for good full-body + face mods that cover both genders and all the races, without making me install a bunch of highly-targeted mods that might not work well with each other. I could get two, made by the same person, in Oblivion (one for males and one for females). Nothing has emerged in Skyrim, yet.
6. Mods that are required by other mods: I guess the best known of these are "SKSE" and "ScriptDragon", which extend the very paltry vanilla scripting language of Skyrim, allowing much more complex and useful scripts to be created.

[Brandy1123]

It all comes down to choice. most people, just by reading replies on the mods themself or reading entries in the modding forums want some form of escape. there are about 5 6 camps that people find themselve comfortable in. I tried to put these in a sequence I see as the most populated camps first.

 

1 : The Porn Camp - These are people typically obcessed by pornography, the art of nudity, the challenge to animate what "can't be done", or children getting a quick thrill. This is not to say that some of these mods are not absolutely incredible pieces of work and imagination. They are.

 

2 :The Reality/Immersion Camp - These people are looking for mods that make the game more like Real Life. They generally reject camps 1, 3, 5, and 6 unequivocally, and frequently are at odds with camp members 4. ( Special thanks to RedRavyn on this exhaustive list :tongue: )

 

3 : The Fantasty - Fantasy Camp - These people are the Animee fan groupies. They love big eyes, big boobs and big weapons. They want color and Oriental-ish revealing clothes. They want a world filled with cute and darling little angelic china dolls with big attitudes.

 

4 : The Lore Friendly Camp - These people want nothing that isn't ES lore. Even though ES lore changes title to title. They can never agree on what lore is, but its not nudity and it definately isn't animee. Its all the mods that aren't "over the top".

 

5 : The Vanilla Camp - These people want nothing that is not released as pat of the original game or an official DLC. If its not a True Game Designer release, its not right.

 

6 : The God Camp - These people don't want to waste their valuable time skilling up. They want it all and they want it now. 1 shot kills, trunks of treasures, and equipment of everything. if you have to work for it, its just not worth it. COC center frequent fliers.

 

I think that about sums it all up

Edited April 26, 2012 by Brandy_123

[RedRavyn]

Brandy, you left out a very important camp that is being supported by a host of modders. Call it:

 

The Reality/Immersion Camp -- These people are looking for mods that make the game more like Real Life. They generally reject your numbers 1, 2, 4, and 5 unequivocally, and frequently are at odds with your number 3.

[Brandy1123]

Red, the list has been appended. We certainly work good together .

[c6t9]

Since Nexus is down due to huge number of users, I might as well write somethig here. I had these ideas for some time now, but never got the time AND the place to pute them down. So here it is. First of all, as a warning, I'm a TV English speaking guy so this is as good as it gets for me (Yes, I've seen the movie). I don't write with rules in mind (don't really know all that past-present sequence anyway).

 

I had the same question. Why are some type of mods so many and so developed and others just are not. And like the first to post this, I can't mod crap so don't ask me why I'm not doing it.

 

So I'm in "Porn camp". I did not go for all af those Skymppy what ever replacements, but I have a few mods to make females look decent (from time to time when I loot I see one naked, not a big deal, mine have hair and muscle and stuff, it's not Victoria's Secret after all). In fact out of the box the game in damn ugly.

 

Now about this great looking females. It seems like this is it. Let me tell what I would have loved to see and I just can't find it (if it's out there, maybe someone gives me a link). You have Lydia, right. Some say she will be your first follower (wrong) or your first free follower (wrong again, even without custom NPCs). But let's say she is your first and like in real life you end up married. What do you know about her? What deep coversations do you have? She is almost nothing. Now i would expect someone to make an amazing character for her, with voice and all. Something that would pull you right in Skyrim, that would make you really love her for the rest of the game. But no one did. I can't find it. People did voice quests. Did put hundreds of ours in making perfect boobs and armor to match. So you're not into Lydia. Fine. What about Jordis or Mjoll. I bet they could be great characters that could keep you in Skyrim for months to come.

 

Let's get back to Lydia and marriage. You do some quests, make some people angry. What about if someone sends killers not after you (oh boy, they do send a lot after me, have no idea why, but a lot less powerful then let's say in Fall out, when a death squad was a great challenge), but after your wife. And you might be aware of this and get someone to protect her. Or not and she might survive alone if you gave her the proper weapons and potions or she might die and open up a nicely done revenge quest for you to find who killed her and make things right. And maybe after that the option to marry someone else. Why didn't the game it self had something like this? Or does it? I got as far as level ~50 and nothing happend. I am rather far into it or I think I am.

 

Or Aela as a wife. She cooks for me, why can't I take for for hunting? Just to 2 of us. Or if you don't talk to her for some time, if you don't bring her anything, she might cheat on you and you would have a decizion to make. Kill them both, kill only one, kill no one and so one. Or she might have gone hunting (and not sitting around in mine house doing nothing, I can't take the blade away from a huntress, can I) and she was captured by someone. I have to rescue her. Or I have to pay to get her back. My choice, game options, some strategy options as well (for example a well placed archer could keep an eye on things and save her). All these are possible.

 

And I have a few more ideas. I find the game not related to characters very well. Not with mine and not with others. Since this is a huge game, it would make sense to be. OK, it's not as easy as "realistic this and that", but those are not that important considering how much fun it would be, how much potential this game had/has. So you want reality, well, make it real. Some even tried to make hunger, sleep and so on. But I feel that the most important part are the characters themselves. They don't really talk to you, they don't make you really like them, really be interested. Sure you can make one look stunning, but what about deeper ideas?

 

I guess I'm in Reality camp as well. Porn and Reality can mix right? :D

 

In the end I am asking, why did no one try to develop characters dialogs and meaningful relationships in the game? And by "no one" the developer is not left outside at all.

 

You might say that this all character thing is not possible with mods since there could be more than one (e.g. Lydia with different stories), but what's wrong with that? You can choose the one you like. Some might be better at it, some worse. I think that if all characters (or maybe some, but at least a few decent ones) would have been really interesting and with decent side dialogs and actions, this game would have kept us trapped for many many months. It's no easy task, I am aware of that, but in the end, it would be mind blowing.

 

Now, that is that. Back to work and to the game tonight.

[RedRavyn]

@ c6t9: I'll sum up your major question by paraphrasing it in what, I think, is a more relevant context. "Why doesn't Bethesda hire good writers capable of constructing solid, in-depth stories, with realistic character-NPC interactions?" The answer is quite simple. Skyrim is not a role-playing game, developer and fanboy comments to the contrary. It's a combination of hack & slash and fetch & return missions that leave all "reality" out of it. It wasn't created for role-players and thinkers. It was created for young kids with delusions of grandeur and a hand-it-to-me-on-a-platter approach to gaming.

 

Now, why don't modders fix this? I think that's a relevant question, too. There are probably two over-riding reasons. First of all, any such modding would involve no voice-acting, or very little, since Bethesda obviously didn't put many vocal responses into the game that could be used in "relationship" mods. In fact, they didn't even supply the voice responses needed for Khajiit to be married. Secondly, such an overhaul of Skyrim would be a monumental undertaking, requiring all the dialog to be rewritten.

[Georgiegril]

To get back to your original question about the psychological cause for modding: my opinion is that in life, we are faced with an innumerable host of things that are not to our taste and/or annoying as all get-out, but over which we have no control. Skyrim is an arena in which we can, with relative ease, make many changes for our own gratification and with the worst result being having to start a fresh game. In real life even changes that are possible often take a great deal of time and effort, and may be met with resistance from those around us.

 

(Note that by relative ease I mean compared to the real world. I know that creating even a simple house mod takes hours to months, but compare that to trying to build a real-world house on your own, for example.)

[Moraelin]

As Freud once said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. There doesn't have to be some deep symbolism or psychological insight behind something.

 

In my case, well, pretty much I just like changing stuff. It actually started in the FO3 days, before there was a construction kit for it, mostly to help get things started. I couldn't model worth crap, but I was good with a hex editor, so, wth... The idea was mostly to get other modders started, then stop and use their stuff. (It's kinda like enlightened self-interest, except less enlightened;))

 

Then it kind of got to me that certain pieces of wisdom were being passed around as unchangeable truth, like that you can't have a weapon made of more pieces than the original you're changing. So I went and added a silencer as a separate piece to a couple of weapons just to show that it can be done, and nothing will break. Then I went and made a lightsaber just to show it can be done. In the meantime there are better ones, mind you, but if we're talking motivation, that was mine: showing what can be done and how.

 

Then I kinda discovered I was having fun messing with meshes. So nowadays that's my main motivation. It's not that I can't play the game without an authentic Type XII arming sword, it's that I like making it. That's by far the primary motivation.

 

Now why did I get into wanting mods in the first place? Well, there's a combination of:

 

1. basically caring more about seeing the next part of the story, than giving a damn about challenge, achievement, and the rest of those silly notions. I have no delusions that bards will sing tales about the guy who killed the end boss with a rusty knife on max difficulty. I just want to see the next part of the story. If it takes an overpowered sword to skip over the padding, I'll use one.

 

2. boredom factor, basically. If I have to play the game several times to see all possible endings and choices, well, I might as well use enough props so something or another is different each time.

 

3. most of the time, I like having historically-accurate or at least believable props. I can understand why games have swords that are half a foot broad, and other such silliness, but for me it's a bit of a turn off. So that's one reason for me to download stuff, or lately to just make my own to the exact dimensions of historical pieces. I wouldn't even call it necessarily realism, but it's an immersion issue.

 

4. Wanting to look pretty, or at the very least clean. Well, not just "pretty", but, you know, elegant, stylish, etc. Gentleman or lady like, if you will.

 

Again it's partially an immersion issue too, as the recent trend that everything has to be dirty, damaged, crude and in some games rusty, is turning me off. Thankfully Skyrim didn't go the rust route, but in Fallout 3 and NV it was a serious turn-off for example every time I used the C96 pistol, looked at that rust on the slide, and just snapped to, "wait, why would I use it like that and risk a jam instead of cleaning and greasing it?"

 

5. Ultimately having my own ideas about game design, balance, and so on. For example in games with guns or lasers, I like having more choices for what to do with every piece of ammo. That was a motivation for example behind making SMGs that use .32 ammo, or laser rifles that used laser pistol ammo in Fallout 3 and NV. Or in Skyrim, I find that weapons are a bit too abruptly divided into speed and damage categories. So I mix things up a little. I make a rapier that's almost as fast as a dagger, but also does only marginally more damage per hit than a dagger. Or an axe that's as slow as a warhammer. Etc. More choice is good, basically.

 

6. Occasional bouts of fanboyism for something else. E.g., I'd play a bit of some Star Wars game and decide I want a blaster or a double-bladed lightsaber in some other game too. Or I'd watch Hellsing and decide I want the Jackal pistol, and a 30mm gun for my female companion :P Or in the case of Skyrim, I watch a swashbuckler flick and then decide I want a Hollywood-standard cup-hilt rapier for my character too :P

 

Though it usually also fills one or more of the previous needs, like playing different enough from existing game weapons.

 

7. And occasionally I just flip from everything having to be historically accurate, to basically just feeling like taking the piss. Especially reading a few lore-mongering rants are known to get me in a frame of mind of, basically, "wait, you think THAT doesn't fit the lore? wait until you see THIS" :P

 

8. Well, and sometimes people just request stuff and I happen to be in between better ideas for what to do. I didn't particularly feel like fighting with a pickaxe in New Vegas, for example, but someone asked me to make one for their own mod, and, wth, it sounded like something that was indeed missing from the game all along.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Moraelin