Beth 'Solo's Fallout

[zanity]

We've all witnessed the disaster Disney has wrought on the Star Wars IP- entirely a consequence of selfishly injecting ideas into a pre-existing IP that did not fit- being just too cowardly to risk creating a new IP for these new ideas.

 

Now we see Beth doing the same to its Fallout IP.

 

Leaks that I did not want to believe told us that Beth chose to leech on the once big trend for 'survival' mods on Steam, and convert Fallout 4 into Fallout RUST. Like how today every AAA publisher is trying to leech on the Battle Royale fashion. But lame Beth couldn't even be timely- Rust and co have long passed back into minority appeal- their day in the sun being long gone.

 

Today we have a major Beth interview 'explaining' the game play (or complete lack of gameplay) in Fallout 76. And THIS is just how things are...

 

In the interview, trying to spin the disaster of Beth's E3 conference, Beth states there is BOTH PvP (players killing players) and no PvP (players not allowed to kill players). You may say "what!!!".

 

The official interview accepts most players hate 'GRIEFERS' and griefers are defined as other players who 'spoil' your game by killing you (breaking your base, stealing your stuff). Now Beth knows 95% of its potential buyers are cry-babies who won't stand for this. But then Beth, in the next reply, admit Fallout76 only works if there is constant player-vs-player threat, for without this the game is literally pointless. So then Beth states there has to be always on PvP- but sez they just don't know how this can work when most of their customers will not stand for this. In their words...

 

QUOTE- "we’re still dialing that". After 4 years of dev on a game cloning Rust where griefing is the ONLY point of the game, they are still "dialing that".

 

What those of you here that do not know how games like 'Rust', they have emergent game play resulting from MICROPHONE COMMUNICATION. In other words people in the game world talk to one another and make up 'playground' rules for things they can do in the game world. Which, I would suggest, is the LAST thing an average Fallout fan expects to do in a Fallout game.

 

But it gets worse- much worse. Fallout76 lacks vehicles, flying, or complex interaction with the environment. So your inventiveness in the Fallout76 SANDBOX is insanely restricted from the go. A poor shooting mechanism, and a VERY simplified version of Fallout 4's settlement building is it.

 

What about the 'PERSISTANCE' of your world? Well clearly in play, the game 'server' is one of the machines of one of the gamers- console style. The 'MASTER SERVERS' Beth mentioned simply hold the state of a game server, and the progress of players. If all playeys in an instance of a game stop playing, the last state of that game is saved on the master server, to be resurrected when one of the players restarts the game.

 

But what happens when YOU leave a game. The rest of the players are free to continue- YOUR 'persistance' does not exist with respect to the world, rather than your character. So when you return, only your 'quests' and 'untouchable' assets are guaranteed 'intact'. Anything you have 'built' can have been raided, broken or nuked in the meantime.

 

What about a 'private' server? NO SUCH THING (as today's official interview makes painfully clear). Say Beth settles on 24 players per game. Even in 'solo' (how fitting) mode, the other 23 slots in 'your' world are auto-filled by the master server (with a possible mechanism for YOU to fill some of those slots with named 'friends' if you can). You CANNOT play without those slots filled (Beth's official statement today).

 

'Solo' quests (which are nothing but the same RADIENT nonsense that blighted Fallout 4 and Skyrim) cannot be 'griefed'. But who cares when "go to A to fetch b" is so inherently lame in the first place. But YOU can be griefed by bored and/or malicious 12-year-olds screaming obscenities, and placing their characters constantly in your way- lovely.

 

Rust worked because players WANTED to be co-operative with the experience, and help bring about emergent gameplay after microphone discussions. And 1% of Fallout76 players will go to the trouble of making clans, creating gameplay ideas, organising regular gameplay times, and filling ALL the slots on their instance of the game. ONE PERCENT- or maybe less.

 

What about the 99%? This is NOT Fallout online. Unlike TES online, this is NOT a traditional story based scalable MMORPG. This is Fallout Rust. Where Todd and co literally have not the first clue how the game is supposed to be fun or avoid every problem that plagues any Rust-like game where the vast majority of players have no sympathy with the core concept.

 

Even tho everything I've written here is based on the massive follow-up interview with Bethesda published today, most of you will continue to be in denial- simply because you cannot conceive just how stupid Bethesda has been.

 

Fallout76 is on a NEW engine (a part of the announcement everyone seems to have ignored). It is a 'LAND FIRST' engine- which means a landscape optimised engine where everything else is essentially just a 3D sprite. Like the Avalance engine used for Mad Max 2 (whoops- WB turned that down so after a quick lick of paint, I mean Rage 2). So no cities, no complex dungeons, simple interiors, simplified lighting etc. There are pros- as in vastly better looking 'natural' land, and more of it. But given how primitive the Fallout 4 engine was already, there are a number of cons too.

 

This impacts mods, as does the concept of the game. So there are NO MODS from day one (Beth's words today, not mine). Future mods will just be new 'sprite' stuff for the settlements, new 'settlement' animation (like that musical instrument playing nonsense), etc.

 

To allow GAMEPLAY mods (which a Beth Rust-alike so badly needs) would completely fail to fit in with Beth's plans, and would only seem possible if Fallout76 crashes-and-burns, Beth switches OFF the master servers, and allows players full control of their own servers- and player responsibility for 'persistance'.

 

Beth likes winners, and since the day-one Fallout-76 seems destined to be a Solo-scale flop (100% down to the fact that today, Beth admitted they don't know what the heck the game is even supposed to be), I could image Beth once again relying on the community to save them. Fallout 76 (unlike TES Online) doesn't seem to have worked out "gaming as a service" to even the tiniest degree. And now Battle Royale Fortnite has made most people forget the Rust trend ever existed, a game based entirely on a mostly dead, long forgotten trend won't strike Zenimax as the most unexpected failure. In Jan 2019 Zenimax will surely say to Beth "shouldn't it have been Fallout Battle-Royale rather than Fallout-Rust?".

 

However, there seems to be a vicious streak a mile wide at current Beth. Even as seems most likely, and Fallout 76 fails, I think the current management will operate more on spite than common sense. The dreadful and very depressing Beth E3 conference proves what a hard-on Beth has for all things mobile, service based, and micro-transaction saturated. Even the much anticipated Prey DLC is just another mobile style nonsense- a rogue-like timed run on the moon for achievement tables and leaderboards- the very opposite of the appeal of the original Prey.

 

Skyrim 2 is an iPhone first every-platform pay-to-win addict-fest. You can see why Starfield is still in the distant future - it is no longer the type of game Beth wants to produce. Doom Eternal (not Doom II- Hell On Earth) cos even this follow-up is clearly a 'service' (hence the 'eternal' moniker). Todd's 'excuse' is that Starfield and on have an 'ambition' that cannot be realised on today's hardware- and he's said this in recent interviews.

 

But Beth is no Rockstar, Rocksteady, Techland, or even Avalanche. Todd's best couldn't hold a candle to the best coders in this business. We didn't love Fallout or Skyrim cos of the great coding- we loved them DESPITE the mediocre coding. So Todd saying that we have to wait till the hardware gets much better is code for Beth's permanent move to gaming a service- the incompetent chasing of online gaming trends that are long gone by the time Beth rolls out any given clone.

 

Some of you will hate what I have said, even tho it all comes from the official interview today when Beth admitted a game 4-years into dev, with a release later this year, still doesn't have the first clue how its gameplay is supposed to work. I'll remind you again Beth today stated that Fallout76 MUST have always on PvP (the "drama"), and then went on to admit that for most players PvP = griefing, and that griefing wouldn't work for the average buyer. Wasn't there something in Alice in Wonderland about trying to believe three contradictory things before breakfast? Fallout 76 has taken Fallout straight down the rabbit hole.

[jones177]

Hi

 

Video games take a long time to develop.

I think when they started these projects that they were more interested what the industry was doing(or going to do) so their products would be in line with where the industry is going.

So instead of feeding their fan base or steady customers they are looking for new customers.

 

It would be common sense to repeat the Fallout 4 formula like they did with Fallout 3 & New Vegas. I am sure that it would have been a success and Bethesda would have made money. But this isn't about making money. It is about making a lot more money & that requires new customers that have different expectations than their base(us).

 

Looking at the game purchases I have made this year I don't seem to want different. I want the same with different stories & improves graphics or a remake of an old game.

Here is my list

 

Combat Commander 2 - Remake

Divinity Original Sin Enhanced Edition - Old style game with new story.

Divinity Original Sin 2 - Old style game with new story.

Battletech - Old style game with new story.

The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion - gog.com version (I have boxed, Steam & Xbox)

Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster - Remake

 

I would not even think about not buying a remake of Fallout 3

 

A game company moving away from the type/style of games I like is nothing new.

My favorite Star Wars games were from BioWare. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic one & two. If they had stayed single player & used the Mass Effect engine/look I would still be buying them.

 

Later

[Dukoth]

wow, want a soap box for all that preaching, or how bout a tinfoil hat for the paranoia

 

*sigh* every time beth releases a game the "the end is nigh" nutters come out of the wood work

[thrax7545]

wow, want a soap box for all that preaching, or how bout a tinfoil hat for the paranoia

 

*sigh* every time beth releases a game the "the end is nigh" nutters come out of the wood work

Yeah, this is a little alarmist I think. I watched the same interview, and had a totally different takeaway.

My impression was that at some point (pending their figuring it out), we will get support for private servers, and therefore mods, and they may be s#*! at coding, but modders will figure out how to make it good. Granted that does require private server support, but that's the only if. As far as the engine is concerned, they haven't really said squat on that front. I wouldn't make any conclusions about that until we have it in our hands.

 

Also, I don't think the griefing aspect should really be a concern. Yes your tiny settlements can get wrecked, but only when you're logged on, and he made it seem like they implemented the "repair turret" mechanic for the whole thing, so just a simple button press and it's fixed, and given how this is all shaping out I don't think people will be able to loot your stuff either. I think it's all supposed to be very light-hearted. Even the nuke mechanic seemed to be more of a way for you to drop a glowing sea on the map, than a way to kill people.

 

Is it a true fallout game, hell no. Could it be really fun with private server support and mods? I'm coming around to the idea. You know what Beth also sucks at beside writing code? Writing stories. We all know it. Fallout 4 is one of my favorite games, and it's not because of the writing that's for damn sure. The best experiences I've had with the game come from emergent game and role play.

 

This could turn into something really cool. It could also of course, fail miserably, but I think it at least has a chance, and I think you're also drawing far too many conclusions from a 10 minute interview than is reasonable. Believe me, I'm no Beth fan boy, and I couldn't give a hoo-ha if this thing is great or not. I already have fallout 4, what do I care if Beth ever makes another game I like or not. I'm just looking at this thing objectively, listening to what they're saying about it, and making mild inferences as to what it could be like.

[ThatMrSmile]

I've been trying to evaluate Fallout 76 solely from the consumer point of view, and I should say - this is definitely not the game I'd want to play. It has nothing I like about Fallout, RPGs and video games in general, and literally has everything I dislike.

 

To me, Fallout 76 feels like just another survival game with some looter-shooter elements. As I see it, there will be no meaningful, emotionally rewarding quests, just "go there, kill a bunch of things, collect loot". No actual story, with actual conflict, so once again, nothing to be emotionally attached to, and therefore, nothing to be invested into. No role playing, that is based on game mechanics. Did you noticed, how Todd haven't said anything about S.P.E.C.I.A.L.? That makes me to believe, that SPECIAL is either ditched completely, or it's being reworked entirely, and the devs themselves still don't know, what it will end up being.

 

Probably the most important for me - survivals are just boring. Playing these games solo is simply atrocious. Playing with friends is way better, and it may generate a lot of great moments, but still, it will only get you so far. Sure, there will be content updates, but they won't change the basics of "entertain yourself" gameplay. And, with that kind of gameplay, the mileage may vary, but eventually I'll reach the moment, where I'll say: "Oh, bollocks to this sh..t." And it's quite hard to add something, past the point of "bollocks to this sh..t".

 

So, I can imagine much better ways of spending my 60$.

[anngr]

So dont play it!

 

I am looking forward to it, I like games where I can wander around exploring, the survival aspects, not so much -but nothing is perfect, there are going to be things in it that I dont like, and things I do. The same goes for most people.

 

Special was mentioned, and it looks to me as though role playing is a huge part of this game, its just not telling you how, you have to go figure it out for yourself.

[MrJoseCuervo]

So dont play it!

 

I am looking forward to it, I like games where I can wander around exploring, the survival aspects, not so much -but nothing is perfect, there are going to be things in it that I dont like, and things I do. The same goes for most people.

 

Special was mentioned, and it looks to me as though role playing is a huge part of this game, its just not telling you how, you have to go figure it out for yourself.

 

Kind of like having the game for sale even before it was revealed? Surprise! You bought poo

[AlarictheVisgoth]

^^

Just like their Season Pass for FO4