Not one airship in SE

[tomomi1922]

What about the crashed airship in Solsthiem?

[kthompsen]

What about the crashed airship in Solsthiem?

 

Not much to add. I'm not criticizing airships per se. Just that I wouldn't want to see too much Dwemer stuff in general. Kind of a less is more thing. Unless they plan on ending the series with a bang...which would be fun one day. There's always been that element that the Elder Scrolls is actually a mix of fantasy and sci-fi.. and the reason why some of the greatest heroes did what they did was actually because of sci-fi in a sense. Like Talos, as I mentioned. But also Pelinal Whitestrake -- who was kind of a mystery man, who was a time traveling, genocidal T-1000 or something. Like part god, part technological freak. But the current state of Tamriel in general is usually what I'd call Fantasy.

[tomomi1922]

This is why mods exist. Players get to control how many mods they load onto. Immersion or all out wonton pervy boy fantasy. Yep, I mean those big boobs and super skimpy (and clean) outfits. Imagine high heel micro bikini running around in Skyrim or Fallout 4. I would rather be naked so I don't trip on my own skimpy outfits and get killed by a low level bandit.

Anyway, I just checked Oldrim site and surprised to see there aren't any airships left beside Dev Aveza. I remember there were at least 5 airships for me to choose from, 5 years back. Dev Aveza was rather clunky. I remember getting it right outside Blue Palace. But there was an even more solid airship that flew better than the early day Dev Aveza with world space (no load door) crafting and storage. It was amazing being able to teleported in (fast travel), do my inventory sorting and inventory clean-up, crafting, while enjoying fresh air and that sunset view. But looks like Dev Aveza is all that is left.

However, check out this mod: Airship World
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/90008?tab=description
Almost feels like a brand new game. Quite new too, March 2018. I wonder how long it takes the author to port to SSE. This can be what you are worrying: the sky will be filled with airships and battles raging on. People on the ground will be an after thought. Probably only dragons are good threat against these airships.

[thumbincubation]

Od-Ah-VIING!

[kthompsen]

This is why mods exist. Players get to control how many mods they load onto. Immersion or all out wonton pervy boy fantasy. Yep, I mean those big boobs and super skimpy (and clean) outfits. Imagine high heel micro bikini running around in Skyrim or Fallout 4. I would rather be naked so I don't trip on my own skimpy outfits and get killed by a low level bandit.

 

Anyway, I just checked Oldrim site and surprised to see there aren't any airships left beside Dev Aveza. I remember there were at least 5 airships for me to choose from, 5 years back. Dev Aveza was rather clunky. I remember getting it right outside Blue Palace. But there was an even more solid airship that flew better than the early day Dev Aveza with world space (no load door) crafting and storage. It was amazing being able to teleported in (fast travel), do my inventory sorting and inventory clean-up, crafting, while enjoying fresh air and that sunset view. But looks like Dev Aveza is all that is left.

 

However, check out this mod: Airship World

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/90008?tab=description

Almost feels like a brand new game. Quite new too, March 2018. I wonder how long it takes the author to port to SSE. This can be what you are worrying: the sky will be filled with airships and battles raging on. People on the ground will be an after thought. Probably only dragons are good threat against these airships.

 

 

For some reason, I saw more airships pop up on Steam's mod list... but I'd generally not recommend that. Nexus is better.. barring a few mods.

 

Mods are great.. I'm just saying it can get pretty silly. There's a reason why the whole story of Morrowind was about stopping the abuse of Dwemer tech and it's ill ramfications. It's more game breaking than skimpy bikini mods - because boobs don't make you godly. While in TES, the Dwemer tech is literally God-Mode. At least, that's what it's supposed to do. They're not supposed to be casual additions, but something godly and epic and worth telling a story over. Something so out of bounds that it killed off an entire race of it's own makers.. then empowered the Tribunal and Talos, making them the walking gods that they were. In Morrowind, even a Daedric prince is pissed off and becomes your main ally.. instead of the Divines in Oblivion or Skyrim. Which is to say, not even the Daedra want the Dwemer stuff spreading too much. lol.

 

If you really want to see Dwemer stuff done impressively though, look no further than Trainwiz.. like his Blackreach or Wheels of Lull mods. They're full blown quests and not just airships.

[tomomi1922]

If you put it like that ... this just spells the fear of technology. Dewmer tech is nothing more than advanced tech that is a primitive version of today’s tech. And today’s tech can be super godly if brought back to Skyrim. Let’s bring Fallout to Skyrim. Power armor + modern weapons will enable any army to be god. Even Windhelm and Solitude can be taken with just constant bombardment with artillery. And fallout tech is like WW2 tech comparing to our year 2000 tech.

 

But step back and take a look... how many times you wish you had magic powers in real life? Skyrim magic power? It may come down to the age old argument “kungfu vs a gun”. But it doesn’t have to be that. If I wield magic, I wouldn’t always want to face a rifleman head on to prove a point. I can build a ward generator that senses and stops super high speed projectiles and wear it as bullet proof vest. You wouldn’t want to face me if I can instantly light you up on fire, or cast a murderous atronach to chase everyone down. If your bullets manage to take out mine, I will cast another one, just some 35 magicka.

 

But without magic, Skyrim is indeed way behind against Dewmer tech. Sure they have good fighters. Average trooper in Skyrim can take out 3-4 of our soldiers in close combat. But it’s not always the punching contest that matters in warfare.

[kthompsen]

If you put it like that ... this just spells the fear of technology. Dewmer tech is nothing more than advanced tech that is a primitive version of today’s tech. And today’s tech can be super godly if brought back to Skyrim. Let’s bring Fallout to Skyrim. Power armor + modern weapons will enable any army to be god. Even Windhelm and Solitude can be taken with just constant bombardment with artillery. And fallout tech is like WW2 tech comparing to our year 2000 tech.

 

But step back and take a look... how many times you wish you had magic powers in real life? Skyrim magic power? It may come down to the age old argument “kungfu vs a gun”. But it doesn’t have to be that. If I wield magic, I wouldn’t always want to face a rifleman head on to prove a point. I can build a ward generator that senses and stops super high speed projectiles and wear it as bullet proof vest. You wouldn’t want to face me if I can instantly light you up on fire, or cast a murderous atronach to chase everyone down. If your bullets manage to take out mine, I will cast another one, just some 35 magicka.

 

But without magic, Skyrim is indeed way behind against Dewmer tech. Sure they have good fighters. Average trooper in Skyrim can take out 3-4 of our soldiers in close combat. But it’s not always the punching contest that matters in warfare.

 

Partly.. with the small stuff. Look at crossbows. Invented by the Dwemer, but became taboo because they were associated with them. Now in this era, it's the Dawnguard that rediscovered them and made it their specialty.

 

But that's the small stuff. Most Dwemer stuff is magic and fueled by godly powers. The whole point of the Dwemer was to bypass the gods and they found a number of ways to get there. The Numidium was fueled by the Heart of Lorkhan. A literal body piece of a god. When that wasn't available, Tiber Septim managed to find an alternative: The Mantella.. which was partly fueled by Wulfharth.. and close to Lorkhan (long story). This is partly how Tiber Septim ending up taking Lorkhan's place in the pantheon - by "mantling" Lorkhan and becoming a god himself in the process: Talos. This was the intent of the Dwemer all along.. to be like Talos... but they killed themselves in the process. And then a human took their crap and managed to do it. He didn't just use "tech".

 

Or this is how the Tribunal became gods. They stole the tools of Dwarven King Kagrenac and became gods that enslaved their people for centuries. They were not mere tech users. They were living gods and the story of Morrowind is about them, if you get around to it.

 

Anything Dwemer requires an extraordinary story like this, I think. If it doesn't remain epic, it'll get overdone and spoil the whole setting. Like hearing a good song too many times and finally getting sick of it. :smile:

 

I enjoyed speaking with you in the Lore thread, but this was the stuff I was hinting at: How most things Lorkhan related are at the center of TES history.

 

It isn't that I want to see LESS Dwemer stuff personally. I just want the story to make it worth it. I don't want to see casual use of it or done in some buggy amateurish mess. Even the modder has to be a legend, like Trainwiz. lol. But preferably, I'd rather see Bethesda make a proper game or expansion about it.

[tomomi1922]

You know you should give up hoping Bethesda to polish a modding game. Take the vampire blackface bug in Dawnguard. They flat out refused to fix it. They just wish the free labor modelers to take on the mantle. Because of their attitude, I think a lot of people refuse to support the creation club, both buyer and vendor. The console players would scream their heart out “take my money, but give me content” to no avail. I would too if I am stuck playing on console.

 

Btw, before we go on, I want to bring up a little about crossbow vs bow. To me, they are almost the same in Skyrim. Bow checks how long you pull the string, fast shooting your bow can result in a .... very pathetic arrow flight path :) crossbow guarantees full strength at each shot with the sacrifice of longer load time. And I know, I even have a mod on archery Overhaul. I somewhat understand there is a range difference and trajectory difference. But it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me.

 

However, there is one huge significance in crossbow vs bow in real life + lore. Most RPG players largely overlook this. Take the Golden Horde, beside being hardy like the Nord, they were with huge advantage over the European for 2 things: stirrup, and bows. They learn to shoot and ride at very young age. Their mounted archery skill is the accumulation of 10+ years of training, even the soldier is only 18. How do you match your European underfed farmers against adversaries like that? Comes the crossbows. It may take 3 months of rigorous training to barely know how to shoot a bow, it takes about a week to teach a farmer. In fact, it would take us modern citizens about 1 hour to be able to shoot a crossbow, not efficient, but definitely can kill. Give us 1 hour on a bow, we probably snap our fingers. Crossbow is one of those military weapons to quickly arm an army with minimum training to be effective.

 

I get it that TES universe has enough conflicts that average town folks know how to swing a sword and pick up a bow. Bows can be simple to make, so hunters love them. But there is nothing magical about crossbow. I presume Imperials should carry more crossbows, because Cyrodill citizens are more civilized and not required to grow up knowing how to kill someone. So training an army may mean teaching a bunch of city boys how to hold a weapon for the first time.

 

What is it with crossbow and vampire hunters anyway? If I am a professional fighter, I would definitely prefer a bow. Or maybe because it’s the ability to keep 1 hand free because a crossbow can hold a shot on its own.

[kthompsen]

I didn't say there is anything magical about crossbows. And I know there are different reasons for it's development in real life.. But I just mean that dwemer stuff is frowned on in general.. even their mundane stuff. Yet at the same time, there's a good reason for it ultimately. Nothing that truly represents the Dwemer was as simple as a crossbow. They were elves, with all of the magical trappings that conjures up. And they did plenty of things that had nothing to do with tech. Magical, telepathic, you name it. And all of their automatons (the robot things) are powered by soul gems. These were largely the enslaved Falmer they killed off to power their machines. Same as their ultimate creation, the Numidium.. powered by a God Level soul gem. You need to play Morrowind. The whole game is essentially about the abuse of Dwemer magic and how it destroyed their own and the Dunmer society.

 

They are definitely the "egghead"/Reason based Race, but not in the real world sense. They knew Gods and magic existed. They simply had no restraints and fully acknowledged and USED these things. It's more like a mad scientist trope rather than scientist. If that makes sense.

[tomomi1922]

Now it makes sense. If people hate you, they find all the reasons to hate everything related to you. Now I start to think Dwemers built a warp engine and went on to explore the stars like Star Trek's Federation, leaving the pathetic peoples on Nirn fighting over the tiny planet :smile: Regardless, the only thing I really dislike about Dwemers is the horrible bronze design (did I mention already?) and still no texture replacer out there to correct this. I expect their art to be more refined and cursive.

I am not sure if I am able to put up with Morrowind's graphics. Steam is on with their summer sale. Looks like I am going to buy 3-4 games, including Divinity 2. Any good game you would recommend? Oh Dark Soul 3 for $15. I am not really into those level based horror games so much, but for $15 it is worth to play through once. So replaying an old game with old graphic is really not high on my list. I mean, even Oblivion with its comical characters' graphic just make me laugh (yes, been watching lots of Oblivion video).

So Morrowind literately told us why Dwemer went extinct? It was not written on Wiki I don't think. In a way, if I have to choose, I would want to be a Dwemer. The whole race seems to be so advanced with both magic and tech. This brings back a lot of memory with Mass Effect universe. THe Quarian feels like Dwemer in this case. Quarian felt like hermits when we first met them. But oh boy, they were once a very advanced race who built an entire sentient robot race called the Kett who then fought back their owners and ... Quarians ended up traveling the starts like space gypsies with a rather weak fleet. In ME3, the player had to do a lot with his/her one space ship to save one entire Quarian armada from extinction. And I thought they were very advanced.

Back to airships, you don't think the Thalmor or humans are capable of building their own airships? Even adapted a blueprint from Dwemers? Or these nut jobs are really anti-technology (in which, anti-progress)?

Edited June 23, 2018 by tomomi1922