Best practices for starting a new HEAVILY moded game?

[Dubbyk]

OK so I've seen some conflicting advice on this so maybe people can help me clear some things up.

 

New Game vs clean save: So all my testing on my insane load order has been off of a unmodded clean save from right before you leave the vault, is this a good place to start with my full load order or should I start a game fresh from the INTRO? Some people say don't load and mods till after you get the pip boy, other people say that things that have global changes such as .INI changes and large scale map edits should be done at the start.

 

Turn mods on one at a time, all at once or in batches? Videos of the Wasteland states you should not turn on all of it's add on mods at once due to too many FOIDs being added at once. Is this kind of "clogging" true of all mods or just a quirk of a few? Would it be better to load mods one at a time inside the vault, make a hard save, add more, load save ect ect?

[Lutes]

I'm not an expert, so take the following advice with a grain of salt.

 

Clean Save: I always have a clean virgin save file in case things go wrong. I'll start a game and save in Sanctuary or just outside the Vault, then create a hard save in the Sanctuary root cellar no mods. A couple of times. I'll use the second save to test out the mods, but I'll keep that virgin save file, just in case. When I'm happy with the set up, I'll start a new game. Some mod references have artifacts that remain persistent, even if the mod is deleted or updated. Having a save file I can load which is untouched, gives the game a chance to clean up those unused references. If I'm already halfway through a playthrough, then I'll create another 'clean' save to work from before updating, adding or deleting a mod. 'Clean' in that the save game is stable and usually in a vanilla interior cell that doesn't have a bunch of scripted activity going on.

 

Activating mods: I do that in batches before starting a new playthrough.

 

-Texture mods first, so I can merge loose archives into one texture pack.

-Script extender stuff like MCM and HUD Overlay.

-Important master files like the armor/weapon keywords and settlement mod keyword masters.

-Settlement mods with script injection, to check they're not overwriting menus and playing nice.

-Then I'll add a batch of settlement mods that dumps stuff directly into categories in order to create a merge for those those mods, if possible.

-Gameplay/immersion mods

-quest and companion mods, etc.

-appearance mods

-armor mods

-weapon mods

-end of load order mods

 

I try and follow load order guides where possible. When starting from a fresh install, installing and activating the mods in that order, when possible. You probably don't need to be so pedantic if you're running a couple of dozen mods, but you should still make life easy on yourself by adhering to load order guides. The real advantage of doing things in batches is so they you can create merges and merge patches for the categories of mods you're loading. So if something goes wrong at mod 150 of your load order, you don't have to go back to the beginning. You load your last clean save and start that batch again.

 

I hope that was helpful I suggest you check out some of the load order guides posted here and on youtube. You'll get a more nuanced understanding from more smarter and experienced people than me.

[kthompsen]

I've recently gotten in the habit of fresh/clean starts.. then modding on top of it. I used to run completely new games running mods, but it's kind of unnecessary for the most part. Unless the mod author specifically says to do it... which is few cases. Like the Civil War Overhaul mod on Oldrim used to need a new game, but it's not worth it anyways. Not even extensive mods like Unofficial patches for Fallout/Skyrim need a new game. You can run them on a clean save instead. If you can do it with that, you can likely do it with most things.

 

ELFX is another that recommends a new game, but after asking the author, it's not all that necessary with that mod either. There's just minor differences.

[AGreatWeight]

OK so I've seen some conflicting advice on this so maybe people can help me clear some things up.

 

New Game vs clean save: So all my testing on my insane load order has been off of a unmodded clean save from right before you leave the vault, is this a good place to start with my full load order or should I start a game fresh from the INTRO? Some people say don't load and mods till after you get the pip boy, other people say that things that have global changes such as .INI changes and large scale map edits should be done at the start.

 

Turn mods on one at a time, all at once or in batches? Videos of the Wasteland states you should not turn on all of it's add on mods at once due to too many FOIDs being added at once. Is this kind of "clogging" true of all mods or just a quirk of a few? Would it be better to load mods one at a time inside the vault, make a hard save, add more, load save ect ect?

 

In my experience, the safest practice is to start a new, completely unmodded, vanilla game, and make your way through the Pre-War Sanctuay/Vault111 section. Once you've passed the point where you exit the Vault (just after coming out from the elevator whilst your eyes adjust to the light) save your game right there. Make a back-up of that save file, store it in a different directory (or even better on another drive) and keep it safe. The copy in your default save location should be used for testing newly installed mods out thoroughly (and only for that purpose) so don't overwrite this one. Instead, create new saves when you begin to 'play' the game once you're satisfied the mod in question works correctly.

'Clean saves' is a term that generally refers to save files allegedly scrubbed clean of residual data (script fragments etc) left over from mods that are no longer installed, by so-called save-game cleaners. In my own experience testing with Fallout4, I've not seen any benefit to using this kind of program, and am left wondering if users proclaiming the virtue of said cleaner/s are merely experiencing a kind of placebo effect.

It's generally a good idea to install mods based on the 'type' of mod it is, doing this makes it easier to keep track of issues, as it's contained to that certain 'type' of mod (whether it's armors, weapons, new quests etc) though I'd strongly recommend that it's exceedingly wise to install one at a time (and then to as test thoroughly as possible) if you value being able to quickly identify the cause of mod conflicts or game crashes/errors - far too many users unfortunately don't do this, which compounds the problems they inevitably experience as they've made it almost impossible to identify for themselves.

Generally speaking, replacement files such as texture and audio mods are the safest mods you can install, whereas script-heavy mods can be the most problematic. If you're using NMM, you can make use of the tab functionality to keep track of 'when' you installed a certain set of mods & the order thereof, via the 'installed' tab; clicking on it will rearrange the list of all your mods in order (if it displays the earliest mods you installed, simply click on the 'installed' tab again to rearrange it to show the most recently installed mods)

With VotW, the advice you mentioned was in response to numerous users informing us that the holotape mods weren't working correctly and were displaying the wrong content. Unfortunately, as with a lot of bug reports we've recieved I've not been able to replicate any of them myself in my game (using an unmodded save file for test purposes) Most of the issues reported are down to either user error*, or problems that occured because the user was (unknowingly) using a version of NMM that is severely bugged that results in either textures, meshes or other parts of the mod not being installed correctly in the Fallout4 data structure - the solution to that particular problem is to use the newest version of NMM, which is now being (unofficially) developed over on Github, due to the Nexus officially ceasing development of NMM, in favour of development of Vortex - newest version of NMM found here: https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/releases

Because of a combination of the huge amount of mods that exist that alter/add to the Settlement system, and VotW being reliant on the vanilla workshop records (which numerous other settlement mods alter (effectively stopping VotW from correctly functioning) as well as the logistical improbability that we can test every mod combination available, we're unable to test the majority of mods out to hunt down incompatibilities and provide patches when possible*. Every time I've tested a test build for a new version of VotW, it's always on an unmodded save-file, and with the exception of one time that Dertspovor06 forgot to include certain files in the update when he uploaded it to Nexus, every version has worked... I've never personally experienced most of the issue being reported/commented on, but because there are so many variations of mod-list/load order*, we decided to take the precaution of advising users to minimize the potential for this to happen.We're also compounded by those users who don't read the main description/sticky posts, especially in cases where the user is updating from a pre 2.0 version; older versions of VotW had some issues due to some unoptimized coding in the original script files, which was known to sometimes cause game crashes when VotW was installed. Again, not an issue I have personal experience of dealing with myself, but plenty of users complained about it for a while (2.0 came with completely rewritten optimized scripts) We also always advise that users ensure that VotW is last in their load order, to minimize the potential of other mods interferring with the VotW functionality.

 

* The single biggest problem with mods is caused by users blindly installing & uninstalling countless mods all over the place during a playthough, with no real understanding/knowledge of the impact it can have on their save files; things like scripts get baked into a save file itself and stay there even after the mod that the script is from is uninstalled. That's a major cause of what is known as 'save bloat', where users report save-files with huge (mb) sizes, which can lead to increased load times, or in extreme cases game freezes/crashes.

 

Patience, caution and a little bit of familiarity/research/reading-up so you understand exactly what you're installing and how it will affect your game are the key to a (mostly) trouble free modded game. It get's easier with time.

 

Sorry for the lengthy response!

[Dubbyk]

OK my 1,000+ mod game (ESLs and merges galore). I have spent years screwing around testing mods, I think I might actually play the game now. I have tested all the different "batches" of mods (location, armor,weapon,quest,ect) by them self's a bunch, most of all the locations mods as sorting conflicts for them involved me sometimes going cell by cell and manually editing mods to resolve conflicts.

 

I started a brand new game at intro, unmodded but with .ini edits so Ugirds was set properly (think that might have been a problem with my old test save, it was made at Ugirds 5 and I now play at 7) and made it to the vault exit, Saved loaded locations based mods (some of them involved sanctuary and the area right outside the vault, I didn't know what would happen if I attempted to radically change them once they had been "formed" the 1st time I went to the surface.). Could save / load and run around like a mad man without CTD, next batch, next batch ect ect any all seems to be well.

 

Now I just need to get banned from nexus so I STOP LOOKING FOR ME MODS and actually play the dam game, I've only had it almost 4 years lol.

[MAzing87]

I'm not an expert, so take the following advice with a grain of salt.

 

Clean Save: I always have a clean virgin save file in case things go wrong. I'll start a game and save in Sanctuary or just outside the Vault, then create a hard save in the Sanctuary root cellar no mods. A couple of times. I'll use the second save to test out the mods, but I'll keep that virgin save file, just in case. When I'm happy with the set up, I'll start a new game. Some mod references have artifacts that remain persistent, even if the mod is deleted or updated. Having a save file I can load which is untouched, gives the game a chance to clean up those unused references. If I'm already halfway through a playthrough, then I'll create another 'clean' save to work from before updating, adding or deleting a mod. 'Clean' in that the save game is stable and usually in a vanilla interior cell that doesn't have a bunch of scripted activity going on.

 

Activating mods: I do that in batches before starting a new playthrough.

 

-Texture mods first, so I can merge loose archives into one texture pack.

-Script extender stuff like MCM and HUD Overlay.

-Important master files like the armor/weapon keywords and settlement mod keyword masters.

-Settlement mods with script injection, to check they're not overwriting menus and playing nice.

-Then I'll add a batch of settlement mods that dumps stuff directly into categories in order to create a merge for those those mods, if possible.

-Gameplay/immersion mods

-quest and companion mods, etc.

-appearance mods

-armor mods

-weapon mods

-end of load order mods

 

I try and follow load order guides where possible. When starting from a fresh install, installing and activating the mods in that order, when possible. You probably don't need to be so pedantic if you're running a couple of dozen mods, but you should still make life easy on yourself by adhering to load order guides. The real advantage of doing things in batches is so they you can create merges and merge patches for the categories of mods you're loading. So if something goes wrong at mod 150 of your load order, you don't have to go back to the beginning. You load your last clean save and start that batch again.

 

I hope that was helpful I suggest you check out some of the load order guides posted here and on youtube. You'll get a more nuanced understanding from more smarter and experienced people than me.

Oh, I dread having to start over since I have put in some good time in the game, but I really do want a fresh stable experience with the mods I'm using. Great advice.