Saint, Sinner, or Something in between?

[Draconicone]

So I'm curious, how many players play the villain and how many players play the saint in Skyrim? Do you find it hard to stick to your decision?

 

I've noticed Skyrim doesn't really have a Zhentil Keep, Riften is probably the closest. There are some factions that are obviously evil, Dark Brotherhood for instance. Thieves Guild also are far less altruistic in Skyrim than they were in Cyrodil or Morrowind. On the other hand I don't really see a city that stands out as a haven of good either, and even fewer factions that are good. The companions are possibly the closest, to a good and honorable organization and they turn into werewolves that feast on men!

 

Lets say, Bethesda released an expansion with the perfect city for your character to rule over. It has all the immersive elements you hoped to feel the true depth of your role, whether saint or sinner. What would make that city specially tailored for your character's moral compass (or lack thereof)? What Tamrielic factions would be present in your city? What laws would be added or removed?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Draconicone

[kevkiev]

I'd love to play as a true blue Paladin-type, and am 99% sure that my char will be wiping out the Brotherhood (and, alas, foregoing Shadowmere and 2 master level trainers). In my last playthrough, fulfilling DB contracts ended up totally breaking immersion for me - just didn't make sense (but, yeah, I did a bunch of 'em anyway.) Unfortunately, that'll still mean killing the old hag at the orphanage, which tends to dirty the hands somewhat (and breaks immersion to some degree as well).

 

But it's much harder to stay away from the Thieves Guild. I was thinking of doing just that (and foregoing 3 master trainers, the very cool Karliah quest line, not to mention being able to dump all the stones of Berenziah), but totally forgot that I had to pass a @#&*! speech check with Brynjolf (or whatever his name is) in order to get to Esbern in the main quest, so ended up putting getting roped into the scheme to put innocent Bradin-shea (or whatever his name is) into the Riften cells. Whether I'll leave it at that or go all-in in order to get access to the various things I mentioned remains to be seen, but my will power is weakening. (Especially since, considering what a nice guy Brandin Shea seemed to be, and that he doesn't get released from jail "after a few days" as promised, I've actually already done one of the worst things.)

[stabbykitteh]

My usual characters are rogues and I find Riften to be the perfect City for those characters and wouldn't really change much. Though I do share your feelings about the Guild sadly not being the altruistic "Robin Hood" type organization of games past, just ruthless money grubbers.

 

Currently trying to play a Paladin. Whiterun works for that type of character. Balgruuf is a thoughtful ruler, despite his slouching and the city is full of normal, law abiding types. The Companions are complex, but Kodlac seems a good man in a bad situation, looking for a way out. I like that storyline (just wish there was more to it). That said, it is very difficult to play a pure Paladin type. given the way Bethesda forces you to join organizations to further the main questline. That's what I'd change. Eliminate the need to join up just to get that one thing that you need to progress. That and including the ability to wipe out the Thieves Guild. It's annoying that they can't be destroyed like the Brotherhood. I understand Bethesda was going for shades of grey and applaud that, I just don't care for the railroading part of it.

[Georgiegril]

The second time through I wanted to see what I might be missing, so I completed all the quests, including the nastier Daedric ones. I still feel dirty. :facepalm:

[StayFrosty05]

I can't play a villain, finding no joy or entertainment in it what-so-ever....though I have little interest in playing a saint either, saint's tend to be naive and too pardoning....all my game characters (RPGames) tend to be mostly good, not goody-two-shoes, more so helpful and generous, though they will make the hard decisions if they have to and base those hard decisions on cold, hard facts if they can see no better alternative.

 

As for a city my Dovahkin would rule over.....Anything related to the DB or TG would be swiftly and with little mercy cut short, though that said he would also need to make sure no one felt the need to join such organizations such as 'beggars', standard of living equality (adequate food, water, shelter, medical) for all would need to be a priority. Also an off the records official Underground Movement built with the sole purpose of seeking a way and the numbers to finally eradicate the Thalmor for good across Tamriel.

 

Laws: 1/ No-one gets special privilege or a blind eye turned...I'm looking at you Maven Black Briar...2/ Investigation is thorough before anyone in sent to the block or imprisoned...no wrong place, wrong time be-headings....3/ All species welcome and have rights to equal work, equal pay....laws based on individual merit, not species stereotyping.

 

@kievkiev....Brynjolf is not the only one who can tell you where Esbern is....the Argonian female Bar Keep in the Bee and Barb can also direct you....I for-go Brynjolf completely on that mission.

[kevkiev]

...

@kievkiev....Brynjolf is not the only one who can tell you where Esbern is....the Argonian female Bar Keep in the Bee and Barb can also direct you....I for-go Brynjolf completely on that mission.

 

Aaargghh... now I'm dislikin' Delphine more than ever. Thanks for the info, will keep it in my back pocket for next playthrough.

[BrettM]

Actually, I've found that you don't need to talk to anyone before going to find Esbern. It doesn't seem to make any difference to the quest at all if you just make a beeline for the Ratway. Esbern will be there, along with all the foes.

[Rossum]

I'm new to the game and haven't gotten to the Thieves Guild quest simply because Brynjolf is a stupid bastard character who is completely invincible for no good reason and every word that comes out of his face-wound hole makes me want to kill him. Honestly, I go to the market and this guys talking about how he sells Falmer blood or something, then he ropes me into a stupid evil quest that I have no good reason to do and no visible reward to make me want to do it... and so I try stealth shooting him in the back of the head and he just shugs it off like nothing and goes after me. He's completely useless, he doesn't even act like an actual merchant, he's just this immortal rancid blob that asks complete strangers to perform criminal acts for him in public.

 

Ugh... I can take essential characters because I at least get the pleasure of using them for knife practice but making a total nobody completely immortal just for one stupid thieves guild quest... for shame Bethesda.

 

Anyway, I tend to play pretty saintly characters, not too nice but I don't see much reason to break into peoples houses or steal stuff. I work to make money or get things and I'm prone to give it to needy people in questlines (like that one guy who wants to be an adventurer but doesn't have any armor, I gave his father the money for it. I would have handed him a spare set of armor if I had one on hand).

 

My city? It would probably be something like Whiterun but more organized and proactive. A crafting section in town where folks can learn the trade, subsidized farms or alchemists gardens (grow Blistarwart, wheat, and all the other ingrediants to make healing potions and then make lots of potions), a system set up so nobody has to beg for food or steal and can get employment. A healing temple, merchantile guild, adventurer organization (like the companions), and other stuff. A magic school would be good but I'd have safety measures in place and focus on practical things like healing, alteration, or enchantments. Necromancy might be fun but summoning doesn't require dead bodies and I don't want out of control mages doing dangerous stuff that upsets my city. Maybe have a slaughterhouse set up to kill animals and fill soul gems for proper use.

 

I might have my own sort of secret society set up for resisting the Thalmor. Make contact with the various bandit groups and hire them to attack my enemies or otherwise work for me (unless I just wipe them out with my army and adventurers). Haven't met the Dark Brotherhood myself but a league of assassins could be handy provided they only take out evil targets and know how to play by my rules.

 

Also, I tend to play Khajiit characters (unless I play Breton for magic) so whatever city I run would be set up to be accepting of the various races provided they play nice.

[robanybody2000]

I hear you Rossum. Probably that is why the thieves guild is going down, because they're recruting in broad daylight in the middle of a city all sorts of tourists with no thievering skills or thievering intentions. I didn't think not joining the thieves guild, but walking at me at 1:30 pm in the middle of Riften and asking me to steal something to join them was not just unexpected but plain stupid.

 

Also i would make a large coastal city with a large harbor and lots of farms on the other end. It would be an intensive merchant's city with tremendous exports and LOTS of specialized shops arround 3 central markets. No stable population just lots of ins, all the houses beeing arroud the farms. The farmers had to bid for renting of the farms for 1,2 or 3 seasons, the hiest bidder having the farm. Same goes for market stalls and shops in the city. With the income i will support a strictly local highly trained guardhouse. It will have a Merchants Guild in wich every merchant has to pay a yearly tax to gain acces to exports, price fluctuation arround Tamriel and ships scheduals. NO fighters guild (or any similar faction) because i don't want hypertestosteronated drunk behavior, NO mages guil(or similar faction) because i don't want to set the town on fire. An unusual Thieves Guild only for the purpose of ecomonic balance and fair competition of prices among the merchants with direct subordonats from the Central Marketing System (basicaly my center of organisation).

[thompsonar]

I don't really plan out whether my characters are going to be good or evil, I just kinda go where the game takes me. Most of the time that ends up with me becoming a wanted criminal in almost every hold. With my first warrior character I stuck to the good side of things pretty well, but since I've been playing mage types I always end up forgetting that I have fireball or chain lightening active and kill some guard or innocent bystander by accident thereby beginning my life on the run. Yes I could reload when this happens or just yield and do my time, but I just cannot for the life of me click the option to go to jail. I'll pay the fine if I have the money but otherwise I just run away (or end up killing another guard or two).

 

The thieves guild is the only quest line I've played through completion. I usually find myself joining up with them at some point with most of my characters. I really just do it for the fences. Put in a little time and the fences have 3-4k gold, makes it much easier to sell all my crap than running around to merchants with 700-1000 gold.

 

Given my seemingly unavoidable life of crime I doubt my characters would even have a city to run. If they did I would probably end up like Riften, corrupt. It's not that I really like it this way, it's just what inevitably ends up happening. After I've had my fun with my current character perhaps I will really try to play saintly character next time with good morals and better aim.