OBSE

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A thread in General Oblivion complaining about OBSE made me wonder if experiencing negative effects from it, and how much, are normal. I've never had that much trouble with it myself, only a tendency to crash when loading a save from in-game, (It's fine when just starting up) when the cell to be loaded needs a loading screen. And crashing on quitting, but then getting out of the game is the point either way. Even those go away if I have less mods installed, though, and I'm not sure it's due to OBSE at all.

[shadowace]

I don't use OBSE so I wouldn't know to be honest!

[nosisab]

At least in one or two threads I tried to explain OBSE isn't a mod in the common sense, although it does modify the way the game can be played it is better placed in the utility category. What do it does? Very simple to answer and it's own name says so: it Extends the script capacity supplying new functions that can't be achieved without it or wouldn't be easy to so.

 

How do it works? It works in two phases. first in the mod confection. It hooks in the CS script compiler so it's functions are acknowledge and the code generated. Without it the compiler would just returns an error if the functions are attempted.

 

The second phase, the one that concern the mods users. it hooks in the engine instruction flow so it intercepts each and any instruction being executed. If such instruction is one from OBSE set, the utility execute it, else it return the control to the engine so it does what it can with it. Obviously if the instruction is from OBSE it need to be present or the engine will crash. If the instruction is from the vanilla set OBSE have nothing to do with it and in intercepting/returning the control to the engine that little delay is introduced.

 

What we can deduce from this is simple: Its not a matter of choice using OBSE. If someone doesn't uses any mod that uses OBSE functions, there is no reason to use OBSE at all. Using it when it isn't need doesn't hurt hard yet hurt a little.

Now, if at least one mod using at least one function from OBSE is active no more choice is possible, OBSE "must" be or the game will crash the instant that function is called, period

 

Resuming: One can chose using mods that depends on OBSE but can't chose avoid using OBSE if so.

 

Edit: that misconcept seeing OBSE as a mod prevents many from realizing what wonderful tool it is. Not being a mod itself it allows mods to do things far more complex the original instruction set. Even where some OBSE function could be "emulated" using the standard ones, the code is awkward, bigger and often too much slower. Otherwise, even introducing the afore mentioned delay OBSE compensate this allowing an increase in speed, in some functions, of magnitude orders, mainly the ones that deals with items and containers. It even allows "performance" mods to exist, and streamline is a perfect example.

[tyreil829]

used and hated it...

 

Psycho

[LoginToDownload]

used and hated it...

 

Psycho

You always say that, and you never explain why... Does it cause bugs/crashes for you?

 

Nosisab: I thought OBSE functions called without OBSE just nulled the script in question. At least, I've gotten quite a few complaints that one of my mods doesn't do anything, which was rectified after OBSE was installed.

[nosisab]

used and hated it...

 

Psycho

One last thing I forgot saying in the previous reply: Being a tool OBSE isn't better the one that use it. If someone publish flawed mods this doesn't means OBSE is the guilt. If someone publish a mod using beta functions, meant to be tested, and it fails, again OBSE get the blame.

 

So, when using a mod that failed to attend the expectation fairness dictates a little thought about what or who is the culprit. If proved the OBSE function is the flaw, OK. But there is no sense blaming something for being misused. Bugged mods that doesn't use OBSE are common place as much as the ones that use it.

But what I see is: the mod used OBSE and failed, so OBSE is to blame; a very naive and unfair judgment.

[myrmaad]

used and hated it...

 

Psycho

One last thing I forgot saying in the previous reply: Being a tool OBSE isn't better the one that use it. If someone publish flawed mods this doesn't means OBSE is the guilt. If someone publish a mod using beta functions, meant to be tested, and it fails, again OBSE get the blame.

 

So, when using a mod that failed to attend the expectation fairness dictates a little thought about what or who is the culprit. If proved the OBSE function is the flaw, OK. But there is no sense blaming something for being misused. Bugged mods that doesn't use OBSE are common place as much as the ones that use it.

But what I see is: the mod used OBSE and failed, so OBSE is to blame.

 

 

I surmise that some people miss the launcher, and so don't like OBSE taking over the launch function without the launch option package?

 

Some may have trouble figuring out how to set it up, or feel that it is an added complication to the setup. But it only takes 2 minutes to set up after reading the readme, but as we all know there are people that resent having to do it themselves, which is why we have crap like Vista, and why more people don't use linux. Don't get me wrong I use Vista, but when I brought my new vista PC home, I spent 2 days "breaking it" just so that I could use it without anger management.

 

The third idea I have is that after installation something may have gone terribly wrong and a person's computer may just not have liked it. After 22 years building and repairing computers as a hobby, and some of that time workin in tech support, sometimes there are oddities in a computer's registry that are anamolous and create weird and unexpected results.

 

So I could be wrong because I'm just guessing, but I am interested and curious as to the reasons why people don't like it. Personally I wouldn't be wirthout it.

[nosisab]

...

But what I see is: the mod used OBSE and failed, so OBSE is to blame.

 

I surmise that some people miss the launcher, and so don't like OBSE taking over the launch function without the launch option package?

 

Some may have trouble figuring out how to set it up, or feel that it is an added complication to the setup. But it only takes 2 minutes to set up after reading the readme, but as we all know there are people that resent having to do it themselves, which is why we have crap like Vista, and why more people don't use linux. Don't get me wrong I use Vista, but when I brought my new vista PC home, I spent 2 days "breaking it" just so that I could use it without anger management.

 

The third idea I have is that after installation something may have gone terribly wrong and a person's computer may just not have liked it. After 22 years building and repairing computers as a hobby, and some of that time workin in tech support, sometimes there are oddities in a computer's registry that are anamolous and create weird and unexpected results.

 

So I could be wrong because I'm just guessing, but I am interested and curious as to the reasons why people don't like it. Personally I wouldn't be wirthout it.

I edited the final of the reply exactly to show the naivety blaming OBSE for modder's flaws, because the risk being interpreted as condoning that vision.

I myself worked at system (support) for decades, as analyst. Ranging from mainframes to nowadays micros. One of mine not minor functions was developing productivity tools for the application staff, a much need and wished feature in those mainframe days. I wish I could say I had a part in the OBSE development for it is really a wonderful productivity tool. Not even it's actual users while modders are aways aware behind that script functions are complete chunks of C code, maybe even assembly ones.

Being myself a Linux user and Debian lover I can understand clearly your point. I inscribed in the Vista beta testing, got the RC1 and 2 and was amazed they were even RCs, they weren't worthy even being Beta, so many bugs and issues that I knew wouldn't allow the deadline release, albeit I knew this wouldn't prevent it from happening. But since OSes aren't the reason of the thread there is no motive to talk about, so...

 

You touched a point I didn't thought about... some people are able and willing to dig the whole Internet in the quest for some "feature" so to bypass copy protection, but shuns something they get for free but demands some thought and work to setup. Maybe is here the reason that leads some to shun OBSE.

[nosisab]

used and hated it...

 

Psycho

You always say that, and you never explain why... Does it cause bugs/crashes for you?

 

Nosisab: I thought OBSE functions called without OBSE just nulled the script in question. At least, I've gotten quite a few complaints that one of my mods doesn't do anything, which was rectified after OBSE was installed.

Sorry, just now I saw your reply.

No, the script made with OBSE generates functions that are actually passed to the engine and so causes crashes if doesn't intercepted.

What can happens being mods that can be used with or without OBSE, meaning there is a watered version that doesn't use OBSE functions, often this means lacking those features.

Edit: sometimes the generated code doesn't cause immediate crash and the script just terminates... even in this less malignant scenery the mod in question is compromised. Edit: and hard to know if wouldn't cause issues in the near future. Edit again: If so this is even a more evil environment, where the flaws can accumulate and eventually corrupts the whole thing.

[Michlo]

This is a rather offensive post / poll.

 

If the hard work of someone, (given for free) is giving you problems, why not let THEM know about it or just not use it.

 

This is really unfair to the people behind such a terrific tool.