Does school kill creativity?

[grannywils]

@lv000 said: "Yeah. School, if done wrong like in my case, not only kills your creativity, but it kills your personality and your self confidence. I'll have to go through a lot to get to a reasonable social and self confident level. All of that because school and teachers taught me that I was wrong my entire life."

 

May I say that I am totally in accord with what Naomis8329 has said to you. But I want to add the following regarding the statement from you that I quoted above. It really annoys me so much when students and/or adults are made to feel that they are "wrong". Even if you make a mistake or do something incorrectly, your behavior may be in error, but you as a human being can never be "wrong". Please never feel that way. I'm not sure if that is how you feel or what you meant, but you are a wonderful person, no better or worse than any other person, and you are absolutely not wrong ever. :)

 

[Iv000]

Thank you, I will keep that in mind. :)

 

The feeling that I'm trying to describe is strange and complicated. It is more like feeling that you are not worth anything and that you're useless as a human being. It gets you down when your teacher is repeatedly telling you to improve your handwriting and you try and try desperately but just can't. It came to a point where she threatened me that she won't even take my tests and essays and that she will give me an F without even checking them. That was only one situation out of many more.

 

You just feel worthless after trying so much and not accomplishing anything and then on top of all that you get criticized that you're not even trying.

 

After finding out that I have ADD (A month ago or so) I finally understood that I wasn't wrong and that I wasn't worthless. I was just different.

My social situation is slowly improving since then, my self confidence as well. But it will take some time, years probably, to get them back to a normal/happy level. After all, 10 years of feeling worthless leaves quite a bit of scars.

 

Not to derail the thread any further with my stories, I'll be fine, and I'm glad there are people who understand :)

[Keanumoreira]

Whilst the old saying is true that anyone can have a child, we need to remember that it takes a great deal of love, patience and time to be a parent. The same can be said of teachers. I guess I have been lucky with my youngest children, all their teachers, from nursery through to high school which they are all attending now, have been brilliant, dedicated and adore their charges, one and all.

 

Never once have any of them given up on my children and between us we have gotten them through the bumps of the past and we shall continue to do so in the future. As parents and teachers, we can only guide, ultimately the child makes the final decision whether to learn or not.

 

We can't force a child to do anything, god help me I've tried. If they don't want to do something then woe betide anyone who tries to force them. Luckily, they have a lifetime in which to decide what they wish to do and how to go about it.

 

As a parent I offer advice, love and assistance in equal measure the former and the latter given when requested. The middle is given all the time and they never have to ask for it.

 

My eldest son wishes to become an architect, we have had a numerous meetings with teacher to decide which subjects he should take in order to achieve this goal. The majority of subjects are academic, but too much academic learning can and does lead to information overload, as a result we have had to make the decision to take 2 of the 12 subjects and make them non academic thereby giving him "downtime", something other than wall to wall learning. This hopefully will enable him to have fun and expand himself without overloading himself at the same time.[

 

These decisions were made between my son, his parents and his teachers. Are we lucky here in the UK (even here in a rural city) whereby we have teachers dedicated to treating each student as an individual, or are the tides in the educational system turning?

 

I guess only time will tell and its an age I'm thoroughly looking forward too :D

If you would have been my mother, I would be one of the happiest people alive right now.

 

The italic part of your post is what would have meant a lot to me.

Naomis you have no idea how much you are helping your son with doing this.

I have ADD, and I have been in 'information overload' for the past 6 years. Because the teachers don't treat us as individuals. I need flexibility to work, flexibility and interest mostly. If it's not interesting, it's impossible for me to work or even begin working. If I'm not in a flexible environment, I will get stressed, depressed and will be unable to work. Needless to say I am doing pretty bad at school. But when it comes to things I enjoy doing, like computers, programming, etc. I guarantee I am best in my class. History, Language, Maths? I almost failed those.

 

Because of that, I developed social anxiety disorder and now I am extremely anti-social and have a low self esteem. I'm not making this up, I cannot talk with my best friend over voice chat because of that, I have serious mental problems.

 

(Please don't get this wrong, I'm not a bad student I'm trying my best, I want to be the best in my class at everything. But because of ADD, I cannot. No matter how hard I try, it's impossible for me. It's like teaching a bird to run. The bird will never be good at running. But it's exceptionally great at flying. Criticism from the teachers and students then lead me to low self esteem and social anxiety disorder.)

 

Yeah. School, if done wrong like in my case, not only kills your creativity, but it kills your personality and your self confidence.

I'll have to go through a lot to get to a reasonable social and self confident level. All of that because school and teachers taught me that I was wrong my entire life.

 

 

I understand 100%. Why? Because I too have attention deficit disorder, and my teachers also don't take me seriously. Let me guess. When you explain to them the disorder you have, do they say "oh, don't use that as an excuse", and when you try to make them understand that you're just trying to make them understand your situation, why you forget things almost instantaneously, or have to ask frequent questions so you can separate your thoughts accordingly, but instead, they say things like "I don't want to hear it" or "why weren't you paying attention"? HELLO?! I'm looking right at you! Why don't you shut up and listen to me for once?

 

 

*SIGH*....sorry, lol, it's just something that frustrates me SO much, because they don't care. I'm an intellectual, I WANT to learn what they're saying, but what they don't understand is that I can't conform to the way they WANT to teach. I have a disorder, and damn it, there is nothing I can do about it. I'm sick and tired of them telling me to "pay attention" when I'm having difficulty putting things together and deciding where they need to go mentally. If they would only understand this and accept it, then surprise surprise, my GPA will shoot through the roof.

 

 

It's absolutely a problem, and just like you, I have anxiety issues. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel, because I stress over the smallest, most insignificant things in the world. If someone tells me to get something, or look for something, or if I have to go into a room of complete strangers or am left alone in public without anyone I know, I go into overload. I literally begin to panic, although usually, it's subtle. It's a very serious condition that I have, one not as bad as it used to be but one I need to kick if I'm ever going to live life the way it deserves to be lived.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Keanumoreira

[mariary]

i think so. chinese school.

[naomis8329]

I guess that's were we are lucky, as a family of Dyslexics and Irlen's sufferers we've had to do a great deal of fighting to get our needs met. I was in Uni when the SENDA legislation went through in the UK meaning that children and adults with special educational needs had to be catered for by ALL educational establishments we cheered. I was, as that time, a tutor for disabled and able-bodied students and even then I noticed how different people's learning abilities were. Even so called "Able-Bodied" students met the same criteria as those with special needs ie they fell into the same categories and then attention spans etc needed to be taken into account. As I said everyone learns differently whether they be able-bodies or disabled and that can be physically or mentally.

 

Gosh I really don't understand why disability is a dirty word it isn't, it just means that the person with the disability has a different way of doing things, mind you don't we all.

 

The schools in the uk have to provide extra assistance for those that need it, however, my children's high school provides the same kind of services to all students regardless of their abilities. They play to the child's strengths rather than their weaknesses and parents are involved at all stages of their education. My eldest son will have to make his next educational decisions in two years time when he will be due to go into 6th form to do his A-Levels. After that it will be decisions with regard to college or university.

 

Oh decisions, decisions and at the same time I will be going through the same sort of things for my youngest son.

 

Never ending isn't it, but then I want to be involved. My eldest daughter is going back to college next January and one of my twins is going to college in September. They have both discussed their course choices with me and I have given them my twopenny worth as a parent. The ultimate decisions are theirs but it is an honour to be included in their decision making processes.

 

I also have an input with my grandchildren, helping with reading books and other educational materials as well as helping with homework etc.

 

I've since discovered that learning is a lifetime thing, it certainly doesn't stop when you leave school, college or university. I endeavour to learn something new every day, to enrich my life and get something out of it. We are never to old to learn and I still hope to return to uni to attain my MBA or even my doctorate. Who knows I may end up being the oldest student in town :D

[Iv000]

 

I understand 100%. Why? Because I too have attention deficit disorder, and my teachers also don't take me seriously. Let me guess. When you explain to them the disorder you have, do they say "oh, don't use that as an excuse", and when you try to make them understand that you're just trying to make them understand your situation, why you forget things almost instantaneously, or have to ask frequent questions so you can separate your thoughts accordingly, but instead, they say things like "I don't want to hear it" or "why weren't you paying attention"? HELLO?! I'm looking right at you! Why don't you shut up and listen to me for once?

 

 

*SIGH*....sorry, lol, it's just something that frustrates me SO much, because they don't care. I'm an intellectual, I WANT to learn what they're saying, but what they don't understand is that I can't conform to the way they WANT to teach. I have a disorder, and damn it, there is nothing I can do about it. I'm sick and tired of them telling me to "pay attention" when I'm having difficulty putting things together and deciding where they need to go mentally. If they would only understand this and accept it, then surprise surprise, my GPA will shoot through the roof.

 

 

It's absolutely a problem, and just like you, I have anxiety issues. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel, because I stress over the smallest, most insignificant things in the world. If someone tells me to get something, or look for something, or if I have to go into a room of complete strangers or am left alone in public without anyone I know, I go into overload. I literally begin to panic, although usually, it's subtle. It's a very serious condition that I have, one not as bad as it used to be but one I need to kick if I'm ever going to live life the way it deserves to be lived.

*hugs you*

That made me cry a bit. I really thought I was the only person who was like that.

As an example, I always worry if I said the right thing to my best friend, I love him so much I'm afraid I'll say something inappropriate or that I will seem not to care about him. I panic because I don't know if he's aware of how much I love him, and I try every day to do my very best to make him feel loved, yet I still feel that I am doing absolutely nothing.

I panic over every single tiny thing that is happening. There are a million thoughts going through my head at moments and it's so stressful and tiresome I just want to shut down and relax, but I know I can't because my brain will still be thinking. Actually, yesterday was the first time in the last 2 months I actually relaxed. I was talking to my best friend and we were talking (Over IM) about something private, it was so beautiful, nothing was on my mind, I was so relaxed I felt like I was the happiest person on this planet.

 

But yes, just like you said, it's overload. I hate that overload and I want it to go away.

 

@naomis

I'm so eager to learn, but my ADD is keeping me from learning. I don't know what exactly it is.

I want to learn 3D modeling, C#, Java, using the Unity3D game engine. I downloaded programs for that, tutorials, videos. But I get distracted by things and I can't find the motivation to actually begin learning. I really feel like I am holding myself back. I have so much potential to be great at all of that, I literally feel the potential inside me. But I can't let it out because of reasons that are absolutely not known to me.

 

It's stupid really and I hope that one day I will look back at these times and smile, happily and satisfied with my life, on how confused and lost I was.

 

(There's like, thousands of things I still wanted to say, but I was writing for at least 40 minutes and I'll just stop right here.)

[Keanumoreira]

@IV000

 

Yep, it's exactly the same way with me. Although, in my case, I'm absent minded. I don't always put two and two together, but regarding the majority of your response, we're very alike. I sometimes say things that are stupid and come out wrong, and often, I find myself at odds with others because I often forget about them and have to force myself to remember certain things. Birthdays, when to meet up...I'm so preoccupied about worrying about my future and myself overall that I often exclude others unintentionally from my concerns. It's not that I don't care, it's just that I have a hard time making myself care (if that makes sense). What I mean is that I often take for granted what I have, but it's something that I've been getting better at. Slowly, I'm reforming.

 

 

Concerning your response to Naomis, we're on the same page. It's like this...this little thing in your head...this little...thing...that either jumbles up your thoughts after they get flowing (which is extraordinary because most days, it's difficult to focus) or says "this is boring, let's do something else", and often times, you're like "NO"!, we HAVE to stay here and do this. But it feels so good to procrastinate and waste time until after doing so, you feel angry and even guilty because you could have learned something new, you could have used that inspiration that rarely comes, or that feeling....that special feeling you get when you want to learn. It's like having the world in the palm of your hands and having it snatched away before your very eyes. I want to be a writer, and you have no idea (speaking metaphorically, because I know you do) how infuriating it is to want to further your progress but my damn brain just won't let me do it. Here I am, wanting to do the work, but upstairs, mission control is having a hissy fit.

 

 

This is what teachers and parents need to understand. We aren't like them, we don't function the same way they do. I love my parents so much, but they don't understand what's happening up there and why I can't do things right the first few times. I just wish they could get that into their heads to understand what's going through mine.

[Iv000]

Keanumoreira,

 

Everything. Every. Single. Thing. Of what you just said.

 

You know to tell you the truth. I really, honestly thought I was just being extremely lazy. Because I can't even do the things I want to do. I really had a lot of self doubt. But now that you also said that, I am in the exactly same situation as you are. It's like I'm reading my life in your text.

 

I want to be a game designer or a graphic designer. Since I didn't decide yet, let's just say an artist.

I have everything here. All the materials to learn from, all the programs to use and the passion and 'talent' is also here. But the 'want', that is always absent. It's like fighting yourself, you're trying to make yourself do it. But you CAN'T. It's just SO difficult. People don't understand when I tell them, but that feeling, you know that you have to and you want to, but you can't. That feeling is horrible.

 

Oh, the many many many times I look back and think "What If I actually started working back then?". I am thinking how I would actually have some skill in game design/graphic design right now. So many missed opportunities, so much guilt. It just racks up inside you and you feel like you're pulling a gigantic pile of stones on your back.

 

I wish I could, just for a few seconds, show my parents and my teachers what's going on in my head so they understand.

My dad knows about ADD. Yet, when I don't do something, it's still 'You're not doing anything'. Why? Why is it so hard to understand that I CANNOT do it. Making myself do something is more tiring and stressful than anything else in my life.

 

The rest of what I want to say to you, I will say on your profile page.

[Keanumoreira]

Keanumoreira,

 

Everything. Every. Single. Thing. Of what you just said.

 

You know to tell you the truth. I really, honestly thought I was just being extremely lazy. Because I can't even do the things I want to do. I really had a lot of self doubt. But now that you also said that, I am in the exactly same situation as you are. It's like I'm reading my life in your text.

 

I want to be a game designer or a graphic designer. Since I didn't decide yet, let's just say an artist.

I have everything here. All the materials to learn from, all the programs to use and the passion and 'talent' is also here. But the 'want', that is always absent. It's like fighting yourself, you're trying to make yourself do it. But you CAN'T. It's just SO difficult. People don't understand when I tell them, but that feeling, you know that you have to and you want to, but you can't. That feeling is horrible.

 

Oh, the many many many times I look back and think "What If I actually started working back then?". I am thinking how I would actually have some skill in game design/graphic design right now. So many missed opportunities, so much guilt. It just racks up inside you and you feel like you're pulling a gigantic pile of stones on your back.

 

I wish I could, just for a few seconds, show my parents and my teachers what's going on in my head so they understand.

My dad knows about ADD. Yet, when I don't do something, it's still 'You're not doing anything'. Why? Why is it so hard to understand that I CANNOT do it. Making myself do something is more tiring and stressful than anything else in my life.

 

The rest of what I want to say to you, I will say on your profile page.

 

Ditto my friend, ditto.

 

 

This is the problem we've outlines SO many times in this thread. The problem here is that teachers either don't care, don't know how to teach, or don't understand their children enough to give them what they need to achieve a full education. That, in my opinion, is what truly kills creativity in school. If you try to make one kid like the other, and don't treat them differently, then they lose their creative aspects because they can't properly express themselves fully. Sure, some hold on to their articulate nature, but some, like me (and Iv00, I'm assuming the same for you) find ours dampened, and as a result, our motivation suffers. As Naomis said, and to which I agree, it is a disservice, and it's one that needs to be eliminated.

[Iv000]

Ditto my friend, ditto.

 

 

This is the problem we've outlines SO many times in this thread. The problem here is that teachers either don't care, don't know how to teach, or don't understand their children enough to give them what they need to achieve a full education. That, in my opinion, is what truly kills creativity in school. If you try to make one kid like the other, and don't treat them differently, then they lose their creative aspects because they can't properly express themselves fully. Sure, some hold on to their articulate nature, but some, like me (and Iv00, I'm assuming the same for you) find ours dampened, and as a result, our motivation suffers. As Naomis said, and to which I agree, it is a disservice, and it's one that needs to be eliminated.

Yup.

My personality suffered a lot because of that. Like I said, social anxiety disorder and major self confidence issues. Which in turn also heavily affects my creative aspects. (In a negative way)

As an example, because of low self esteem I stopped drawing because I thought I wasn't good enough. Now I began drawing again and noticed that I improve very quickly without much practice. I still hesitate a bit to draw because of self confidence, still think I'm not good enough etc etc. All lies, I know. I have a thing for art. But it's hard to fool my brain now that after 10 years it was brought to believe it can't do anything.

 

Well, from now on it can only get better. I'm looking forward to that. :)