Manual Mod Installation Issue

[Destroyer5]

If you have manually installed mods in your game data directory, without Vortex, do not reinstall with Vortex without deleting your manual install.

 

When you use Vortex to reinstall a mod, that you placed manually, Vortex will create a back up of that mod and when you go to uninstall Vortex will put that mod backup mod back into the data folder, so technically you never deleted the mod.

 

This can cause mods to crash.

 

MAKE SURE YOUR MOD LISTING MATCHES YOUR PLUGIN LIST.

 

The Plugin list will show all the mods installed and the mod list will only show what Vortex is managing. Can be very misleading.

 

Vortex should ask if you wish to restore a backup of the mod before restoring it.

[rmm200]

I think this was a feature request, summarized in the last line.

Make sure you submit it through Vortex.

[Tannin42]

This is the intended behavior, Vortex isn't supposed to permanently remove files installing mods. What if those files were custom made/edited?

Also: how is Vortex supposed to know which files belong together to a mod if it didn't install it? At best I could offer to display a list of all files that would be restored and that list could contain thousands of file names.

 

I don't see how Vortex restoring the files is supposed to cause mods to crash, it's just returning the files to how they were before? Could you describe in detail the constellation in which files backed up and restored by vortex could cause a crash?

[Destroyer5]

This is the intended behavior, Vortex isn't supposed to permanently remove files installing mods. What if those files were custom made/edited?

Also: how is Vortex supposed to know which files belong together to a mod if it didn't install it? At best I could offer to display a list of all files that would be restored and that list could contain thousands of file names.

 

I don't see how Vortex restoring the files is supposed to cause mods to crash, it's just returning the files to how they were before? Could you describe in detail the constellation in which files backed up and restored by vortex could cause a crash?

Hmmmmm.

 

Lets start off with if you install a mod using vortex and Vortex sees that you have the SAME mod installed, then I would think it would be smart enough to know if you uninstall the mod that it would not return the old mod since you are uninstalling. Correct. I mean it is common sense.

 

Now as for the crashing part, hmmm, if I uninstalled a mod and Vortex re-installs the same mod from a backup and than a month goes by and a person makes a similar mode which specifically states, do not use a mod that alters a certain mesh, you will say to yourself hey I don't have any installed, because i UNINSTALLED it so you install the new mod. Come to find out the new mod causes unexpected behavior and you sit and wonder why this is happening, so you waste your time on forums asking the world what did i do wrong?, when it was Vortex that reinstalled a mod that you thought was uninstalled and is causing issues with other mods that say do not use that mod. I hope it makes sense.

 

It is just common sense.

[Destroyer5]

I think this was a feature request, summarized in the last line.

Make sure you submit it through Vortex.

Thxs

[Destroyer5]

I have to add this part for those that do not understand how having a backup mod reinstalled without you knowing it can cause issues.

 

Scenario-

 

If you uninstalled a mod and Vortex re-installs the same mod from a backup and than a month goes by and a person makes a similar mode which specifically states, do not use a mod that alters a certain mesh, you will say to yourself hey I don't have any installed, because i UNINSTALLED it, so you install the new mod.

 

Come to find out the new mod causes unexpected behavior and you sit and wonder why is this happening, so you waste your time on forums asking the world what did you do wrong?, when it was Vortex that reinstalled a mod that you thought was uninstalled and is now causing issues with the other mods that said not use that mod.

 

I hope it makes sense.

 

I appreciate what Vortex has done so far, but as in any program there is always room for improvement and I think the example i just used is important. Especially when Modders tend to use the same area when making new mods, which can conflict with older mods. That is why it is important to know if a Mod, that you uninstalled, was reinstalled by Vortex from a backup.

 

A simple prompt asking do you want to reinstalled the backup mod, Yes or no, is not too much to ask for, especially when you have sooo many mods that can conflict with each other.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Destroyer5

[Tannin42]

Hmmmmm.

 

Lets start off with if you install a mod using vortex and Vortex sees that you have the SAME mod installed, then I would think it would be smart enough to know if you uninstall the mod that it would not return the old mod since you are uninstalling. Correct. I mean it is common sense.

a) No, that is not common sense, that is what you want in your current situation right now. Vortex is not there to uninstall the mods you have installed outside vortex.

If you installed a mod through NMM you uninstall it through NMM.

If you have installed a mod through Wrye Bash, you uninstall it through Wrye bash.

If you have installed a mod manually then you uninstall it manually. That is common sense.

b) You completely miss the point that Vortex doesn't know that the file it overwrote belong to the same mod, it just knows that they are the same files. They could belong to a completely different mod that happens to contain the same file and if Vortex didn't restore the backup that other mod, which you installed outside Vortex, would be broken.

That's how Vortex generally works, if you install "moda" and then "modb" and they both contain "sometexture.dds", you resolve the file conflict via rule, let's say "modb after moda" and so the texture from modb is applied. But then if you disable modb it doesn't leave moda broken, missing a texture, Vortex will start deploying the texture from moda.

The behaviour in regards to pre-existing files is the same: The assumption is that the files belong to a mod which would break if the files aren't restored. Vortex can not know that the files belong to the same mod you were installing and that you intended them to be replaced, it can't read your mind.

 

Now as for the crashing part, hmmm, if I uninstalled a mod and Vortex re-installs the same mod from a backup and than a month goes by and a person makes a similar mode which specifically states, do not use a mod that alters a certain mesh, you will say to yourself hey I don't have any installed, because i UNINSTALLED it so you install the new mod. Come to find out the new mod causes unexpected behavior and you sit and wonder why this is happening, so you waste your time on forums asking the world what did i do wrong?, when it was Vortex that reinstalled a mod that you thought was uninstalled and is causing issues with other mods that say do not use that mod. I hope it makes sense.

Nope, it doesn't.

You installed the mod manually, apparently, and then couldn't be arsed to check if a certain file exists that you manually put there? You made a bunch of assumptions about how Vortex works and never bothered to check them and instead wasted other peoples time on the forum?

Don't make this our fault, it's not.

[Destroyer5]

 

Hmmmmm.

 

Lets start off with if you install a mod using vortex and Vortex sees that you have the SAME mod installed, then I would think it would be smart enough to know if you uninstall the mod that it would not return the old mod since you are uninstalling. Correct. I mean it is common sense.

a) No, that is not common sense, that is what you want in your current situation right now. Vortex is not there to uninstall the mods you have installed outside vortex.

If you installed a mod through NMM you uninstall it through NMM.

If you have installed a mod through Wrye Bash, you uninstall it through Wrye bash.

If you have installed a mod manually then you uninstall it manually. That is common sense.

b) You completely miss the point that Vortex doesn't know that the file it overwrote belong to the same mod, it just knows that they are the same files. They could belong to a completely different mod that happens to contain the same file and if Vortex didn't restore the backup that other mod, which you installed outside Vortex, would be broken.

That's how Vortex generally works, if you install "moda" and then "modb" and they both contain "sometexture.dds", you resolve the file conflict via rule, let's say "modb after moda" and so the texture from modb is applied. But then if you disable modb it doesn't leave moda broken, missing a texture, Vortex will start deploying the texture from moda.

The behaviour in regards to pre-existing files is the same: The assumption is that the files belong to a mod which would break if the files aren't restored. Vortex can not know that the files belong to the same mod you were installing and that you intended them to be replaced, it can't read your mind.

 

Now as for the crashing part, hmmm, if I uninstalled a mod and Vortex re-installs the same mod from a backup and than a month goes by and a person makes a similar mode which specifically states, do not use a mod that alters a certain mesh, you will say to yourself hey I don't have any installed, because i UNINSTALLED it so you install the new mod. Come to find out the new mod causes unexpected behavior and you sit and wonder why this is happening, so you waste your time on forums asking the world what did i do wrong?, when it was Vortex that reinstalled a mod that you thought was uninstalled and is causing issues with other mods that say do not use that mod. I hope it makes sense.

Nope, it doesn't.

You installed the mod manually, apparently, and then couldn't be arsed to check if a certain file exists that you manually put there? You made a bunch of assumptions about how Vortex works and never bothered to check them and instead wasted other peoples time on the forum?

Don't make this our fault, it's not.

 

Listen I am not going to go back and forth.

 

THE FACT is if you have manually installed a mod and then decided to reinstall the same mod because issues with Vortex, Vortex will back up the old mod and install the new one.

FACT when you uninstall that mod it will put back the old one.

Thats the fact, and that can be an issue for a lot of people. I am sure if people checked there plugins with the mod list they will see a lot of mods that they thought was uninstalled still there.

 

So if you tell a program to get rid of a mod, then get rid of it, dont put the old one back or at least warn us. The idea of get rid of means to get rid of. Common Sense.

 

 

And it is VERY unprofessional the way you are reacting to users that are voicing their opinion on issues that can arise from using Vortex.

[Grestorn]

The only person who is not only unprofessional but straight out rude, is you.

Tannin explained with incredible patience why Vortex is working this way, and that it just cannot work any oher way without causing serious problems in endless other situations, you don't even consider.

What you're demanding is not only irrational, you also don't even want to try to understand the actual problem. You sound like a child keeping crying... BUT I WANT THIS!!!

[Guest deleted34304850]

i cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to install a program to manage data of any kind, and when I instructed it to delete or uninstall a file, it went off and deleted/uninstalled everything it could find that it "thinks" are the same, or related to the file I asked it to delete/uninstall.

 

I can however, imagine the absolute carnage, if that idea was brought into the real world.