Manual Mod Installation Issue

[davidwalshireland]

Especially when you consider that a program cannot 'think' or speculate or guess about anything in the way a human can.

[Destroyer5]

i cannot imagine a scenario where I would want to install a program to manage data of any kind, and when I instructed it to delete or uninstall a file, it went off and deleted/uninstalled everything it could find that it "thinks" are the same, or related to the file I asked it to delete/uninstall.

 

I can however, imagine the absolute carnage, if that idea was brought into the real world.

First the computer would not create the same file in one particular folder, so deleting everything with the same name not possible.

Also the program is REINSTALLING a BACK UP it made and not deleting, so it should ASK the user would you like to REINSTALL the back up of a program the USER said To UNINSTALL/DELETE like other sophisticated programs do.

 

So please use logic and some common sense.

SCENARIO

I manually install hello.esm

 

Then I install vortex and say I want vortex to handle my mods so I add Hello.esm to Vortex to install.

 

Vortex prompts you if you would like to Replace the mod installed and you select yes or at times Vortex will just install it and later tell you a change was made. Toss up.

Now to some replace means to get rid of the old.

 

Then you UNINSTALL Hello.esm because you don't want it anymore.

 

Vortex uninstalls Hello.esm but puts back Hello.esm from the back pup WITHOUT informing you.

So a program you instructed to uninstall was put back from a backup without informing you.

 

Now hello.esm is still loaded.

 

Now you go and install goodbye.esm and the mod states DO NOT USE WITH HELLO.esm.

 

You say to yourself I dont have HELLO.esm because VORTEX deleted it.

 

You install and play Goodbye and the game crashes, or does not perform the way it should.

 

Then you go to the forums and ask whats going on.

 

The modder asks do you have Hello.esm installed?

 

So how will you answer???????

 

COMMON SENSE.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Destroyer5

[Destroyer5]

Especially when you consider that a program cannot 'think' or speculate or guess about anything in the way a human can.

The computer is not being asked to think as a human.

 

If the program backs up a program, then when you uninstall the program right before reinstalling a backup IT has a prompt stating a back up of this file was made would you like to reinstall? Simple.

 

Vortex backs up hello.esm

The user uninstalls

Vortex knows it made a back up because it puts it back.

SO why not add a subroutine that it will ask the user if they would like to put back the program IT backed up. If not Vortex moves it to the Vortex backup folder. SIMPLE.

 

Common sense.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Destroyer5

[Grestorn]

 

 

COMMON SENSE.

 

 

Not common sense.

 

A tool manipulates an installation in the way it was instructed. And it offers the function to revert these manipulations.

 

In no way it should delete any stuff already present which wasn't put there by the tool itself. Unless this would be the explicit function of the tool in question and the user explicitly requested that operation.

 

Any tool which would not follow these rules would be thrown off my machine right away.

 

Your request just remains unreasonable.

[Guest deleted34304850]

Destroyer5 - I used common sense in my answer.

 

Trust me when I say this;

 

Your idea is a complete non-starter from every conceivable angle imaginable. You may claim "common sense" in your argument, but that is because your argument is completely and utterly flawed. The idea itself is the polar opposite of common sense, it would be absolute chaos and would cause infinitely more problems than you think it would solve.

 

The solution to your problem lies with you. If you install something manually, then you need to undo that action manually. There isn't a tool on the planet that would do that for you, and be 100% foolproof, and ensure the integrity of your data. The key phrase in that sentence is "integrity of your data".

 

However, if you can write such a tool, that will work without issue on any platform, and give 100% results and complete data integrity all the time, every time, then again, trust me when I say this; write that tool yourself, patent it, and you will become a very rich person.

[Destroyer5]

 

 

 

COMMON SENSE.

 

 

Not common sense.

 

A tool manipulates an installation in the way it was instructed. And it offers the function to revert these manipulations.

 

In no way it should delete any stuff already present which wasn't put there by the tool itself. Unless this would be the explicit function of the tool in question and the user explicitly requested that operation.

 

Any tool which would not follow these rules would be thrown off my machine right away.

 

Your request just remains unreasonable.

 

Wow are you even paying attention. Do you know programming? No one is stating to delete anything. A simple line routine when the program checks to see if it made a back up of a mod if the user would like to restore or keep it as a back up.

 

Are serious that you think programs cant do that. I mean a file called Freevideoedit asks the user if they would like to create a restore point before installing. COME ON.

 

Vortex;

Installing

Reads the installation mod to install

Checks if there is a mod with the same name

If there is a file with the same name it asks the user do you want to replace or rename?

You say replace

Vortex creates a back of the file.

Mod installed

Vortex asks do you want to enable the mod.

You enable

Done

 

Uninstalling

Now you instruct Vortex to uninstall

Vortex checks the file folder and ensures nothing has changed before uninstalling

It prompts you with do you want to remove the mod and its archive?

You say to remove both.

Vortex goes into the folder and removes the mod and archive VORTEX created

Vortex now goes and renames and reinstall the same mod.

 

So why cant it ask the user before renaming the old mod and placing it back, if we want to reinstall, keep or delete a backup of the same mod?

It knows there was one when it first installed and asked if you would like to replace it so.......

 

SO SIMPLE. But i guess that is too sophisticated for the programmers.

 

It is what it is. Just know That those that say something cannot be done are left behind those that say it can be done.

 

You are like the people that said we cannot have planes or go to space. Take off the blinders.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Destroyer5

[Guest deleted34304850]

yup, that's a great response. well done you. remember to patent your program when you write it. much love.

[Tannin42]

 

It is what it is. Just know That those that say something cannot be done are left behind those that say it can be done.

 

You are like the people that said we cannot have planes or go to space. Take off the blinders.

 

Lol, are you for real? Overdramatic much? That post should have started with "I have a dream..."

 

Anyway, I have explained to you why the solution you propose is impractical. If you didn't understand something in my posts I will be happy to go into detail, but I have no interest in going in circles on this.

Your entire argument rests on the assumption that a mod consists of only one file which we all know is not usually the case - why don't you think about the consequences of that for a bit instead of repeating how simple and common sense your proposal is over and over? Does it not occur to you that maybe you're the one missing something that the people disagreeing with you have understood?

[Destroyer5]

 

 

It is what it is. Just know That those that say something cannot be done are left behind those that say it can be done.

 

You are like the people that said we cannot have planes or go to space. Take off the blinders.

 

Lol, are you for real? Overdramatic much? That post should have started with "I have a dream..."

 

Anyway, I have explained to you why the solution you propose is impractical. If you didn't understand something in my posts I will be happy to go into detail, but I have no interest in going in circles on this.

Your entire argument rests on the assumption that a mod consists of only one file which we all know is not usually the case - why don't you think about the consequences of that for a bit instead of repeating how simple and common sense your proposal is over and over? Does it not occur to you that maybe you're the one missing something that the people disagreeing with you have understood?

 

Anyway as I stated before those that say they cant do something will fall behind. This person made it possible to use NMM in Vr, https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/32511, and guess what??? NMM actually warns you when you uninstall a mod that it will delete the backup.

 

NMM prompts you with "These mods will be uninstalled and all their files and their ARCHIVES will be permanently deleted from your hard drive are you sure? this operation cannot be undone."

 

That gives a person the opportunity to manually remove the mode themselves, before deleting, or just deleting. NMM knows what they doing.

 

Hmmm i thought it could not be done. Yet NMM does it, but Vortex, awww poor vortex, is left behind. why you may ask, because instead of saying I can they said we cant. Go Figure. LOL

Edited July 30, 2018 by Destroyer5

[Grestorn]

SO SIMPLE. But i guess that is too sophisticated for the programmers.

 

It is what it is. Just know That those that say something cannot be done are left behind those that say it can be done.

 

You are like the people that said we cannot have planes or go to space. Take off the blinders.

Yes, I'm a programmer. For more than 30 years now.

 

And I've never said that it CANNOT be done. There are many third-party uninstaller tools for Windows that do what you want (like DriverUninstaller). And I never use them, because in many cases, they do more harm than good.

 

I said, it SHOULD NOT be done. It's just not a good idea to manipulate stuff which a tool can only make guesses about. And that's exactly what you're asking for.

 

NMM prompts you with "These mods will be uninstalled and all their files and their ARCHIVES will be permanently deleted from your hard drive are you sure? this operation cannot be undone."

 

That gives a person the opportunity to manually remove the mode themselves, before deleting, or just deleting. NMM knows what they doing.

You don't even realize that this is a totally different case, because in your example, NMM asks about deleting a mod that was installed USING NMM itself in the first place! NMM will also never delete any plugin it didn't install itself. Try it!