Crashing to Desktop

[StanIsTheLaw]

Any posts claiming that CTDs arnt Bethesda's fault are invalid, its bugs which cause them as well, i played on 1.4 fine but using 1.5 made me CTD in areas and situations which never crashed before. All the 'changes resource management' marlarky found in the change log is just making the game more unstable?

 

My observation too, since 1.5 have had more problems and are trying to run as few mods as possible. No Quests, no environment mods, nothing major. But since about 1.4 the lighting in some vanilla cells seems to have gone funny, totally blown out, part of BleakFalls Barrow for instance. Then I got sick of crashes so I started a new game with only a handful of mods, went to BFB and low and behold, the lighting was back to normal. So updates have certainly caused me some noticeable problems.

[Glhadiator]

I guess I can't help but put my two cents in here. My stand on this;

 

A-I would love a system that could tell me what I did wrong.

B-I would love a system that would tell me what they did wrong.

 

 

 

I spent a career working in advanced electronics and computers. I operated Grumann and General Dynamics Systems that would make the computer in front of you look like a wrist watch compared to a NASA launch Simulator. One was called a H.A.T.S. (Hybrid Automatic Test Station). They are used to troubleshoot and anaylyze. Even with all of that power the best it can do is come up with a PCOF (probable cause of failure).

 

 

 

Each PC has a completely different hardware and BIOS setup even when running the exact version of software. Start throwing in third party software and it becomes a nightmare beyond description. Yes, there is information that can be obtained from a crash, but what it means is an entirely different matter. I was in a buddys car once that stopped running as it was going down the road. The on-board computer he had suddenly stated in its' computer voice that the car had stopped running. Seriously! I still to this day wonder how much money was spent on research and production of that system just so we could be told the obvious without any useful information.

 

 

 

Back to A and B above. I would love to have something like that, but at what costs? Keep in mind also that information is only useful to the user if it can be 'used' and understood.

 

 

Each PC is different. I currently have 105 Mods running in my game with almost 350hrs playing time. I have zero CTDs' and zero LAG. I run on Ultra High. I'm not bragging I'm just pointing out that you can run Mods in Skyrim without issues. I can list all of my procedures for Mod useage but they would apply to only a tiny (if that) percentage of players because each PC is different.

 

 

 

So here it is: The ultimate (not all, so don't frag me) responsibility belongs to the end user. That's you if you're reading this.:tongue: Study everything available concerning any Mod you may install. Save, test, save, test, save, test. If it produces any error or issues, delete. Read all the forums you can. Ask questions, lots of them. And in the end you still won't have any guarantee. You can't just keep stacking Mods willy nilly on a software engine and then freak out when it S***s the bed!

 

To the OP: I can understand your frustration. IMHO the best resource for fixing your game is right here on the NEXUS. I am constantly impressed with the level of knowledge presented here and the willingness to help others. I gathered most of my Skyrim knowledge just by reading the forums here.

 

 

Now...let's all go play Skyrim!

[Stemin]

Any posts claiming that CTDs arnt Bethesda's fault are invalid, its bugs which cause them as well, i played on 1.4 fine but using 1.5 made me CTD in areas and situations which never crashed before. All the 'changes resource management' marlarky found in the change log is just making the game more unstable?

 

My observation too, since 1.5 have had more problems and are trying to run as few mods as possible. No Quests, no environment mods, nothing major. But since about 1.4 the lighting in some vanilla cells seems to have gone funny, totally blown out, part of BleakFalls Barrow for instance. Then I got sick of crashes so I started a new game with only a handful of mods, went to BFB and low and behold, the lighting was back to normal. So updates have certainly caused me some noticeable problems.

 

Of course a new file is going to be stable. What do you think happens to your save file every time they update?

 

It's like you're keeping a journal, but every time you have an update you go back and cross something out and write in the margin. Tell me how easy it's going to be to read that?

 

It's no different than when you install a bunch of mods and then start changing them.

 

It's just how things are. The only real way to fix it is to minimize the number of updates, but that's a whole 'nother conversation you'll just complain about.

 

I honestly don't understand what compels people to jump onto a forum about a game and then spend all their time complaining about it. You realize people are here because they LIKE the game?

 

If you don't like it, why are you playing it, and what's compeling you to try to make others suffer for the problems you have on YOUR setup?

[Dingenskirchen]

You do realize a crash to desktop is a failure, probably based on YOUR hardware or software, and has very little to do with Skyrim. Lots of people run the game without much crashing. And usually the ones that do have crashing have started playing with mods and such.

 

In other words, a crash means skyrim failed as a result of something going on in your computer. You don't program a crash.

 

Your whole post is very uninformed, IMO.

 

The only way I know of to do what you're suggesting is to give Steam more power so that it is always keeping track and debugging skyrim, which would take a TON more resources and probably wouldn't let about 50% of the current players play Skyrim on their existing computer setups.

 

100% this!

[xlcr]

I would welcome any solution Bethesda could offer to assist with determining the exact cause of a CTD.

Be it an issue with hardware or software or mods.

Specifically, a way to run Skyrim offline in debug mode, allowing you to step thru and log each game engine event up to a crash.

Log would need to be user friendly and include the identity of the source of each call/load (especially mod/quest scripts) and

what the last event was causing a CTD to be useful.

Something like this would probably not be for amateurs, Bethesda could also exclude/filter out any proprietary code from being logged.

I would not want Steam involved in any way with something like this.

 

Alternatively, instead of designing the game to simply vanish by crashing to the desktop, an informative on screen error message identifying

exactly what caused the game engine to malfunction would've been nice; then, you could click 'ok' or something to exit the program.

Edited June 1, 2012 by xlcr

[MightyZ0G]

I think I have discovered one of the major causes for CTDs

 

if your GPU fan is set to auto change it to 100% all the time.

 

whenever I have had CTDs, that weren't caused by a mod conflict, my GPU was up around 85 Celsius.

today I set the fan to run at 100% and, after playing for over 1 hour, the GPU temp was around 70 Celsius and the game felt smoother and more stable.

[fraquar]

I would welcome any solution Bethesda could offer to assist with determining the exact cause of a CTD.

Be it an issue with hardware or software or mods.

Specifically, a way to run Skyrim offline in debug mode, allowing you to step thru and log each game engine event up to a crash.

Log would need to be user friendly and include the identity of the source of each call/load (especially mod/quest scripts) and

what the last event was causing a CTD to be useful.

Something like this would probably not be for amateurs, Bethesda could also exclude/filter out any proprietary code from being logged.

I would not want Steam involved in any way with something like this.

 

Alternatively, instead of designing the game to simply vanish by crashing to the desktop, an informative on screen error message identifying

exactly what caused the game engine to malfunction would've been nice; then, you could click 'ok' or something to exit the program.

 

You mean something like the blue screen of death?

[StanIsTheLaw]

My original comment was that IMHO Skyrim was a lot less stable than Oblivion when you start using mods. I stand by that.

 

I think the auto updating is really questionable and am turning it off. The whole Steam thing is a real pain IMHO.

 

One other observation, I usually don't have trouble until I hit level 25+ in a game which means about 20% of the map is discovered. Once I get to level 40+ it really starts to cause issues.

 

I have restarted and removed all but the most wanted mods. 5 houses, some companion tweaks, filling food, missing smelters. Level 18 with only one crash and that was when I was firing into a bunch of baddies in a corridor and one died and could not fall over. Auto updating is turned off.

[xlcr]

lol fraquar no thanks to the BSOD thing, that would blow chunks bigtime,

was just attempting to paint a pretty picture of somekind of custom POPUP error message identifying specifically what component failed

giving the gamer good clues how to remediate; and,

allowing the gamer to close the popup when ready to exit/end the game process more gracefully to desktop.

 

Just a suggested hypothetical scenario as a preferable alternative to the current situation where the game engine simply CTD's

leaving the gamer shouting FUS RO DAH at their rigs lol.

Realistically, I suspect the Skyrim game engine is probably not robust enough to do a popup prior to crashing.

[Georgiegril]

I guess I can't help but put my two cents in here. My stand on this;

 

A-I would love a system that could tell me what I did wrong.

B-I would love a system that would tell me what they did wrong.

 

 

 

I spent a career working in advanced electronics and computers. I operated Grumann and General Dynamics Systems that would make the computer in front of you look like a wrist watch compared to a NASA launch Simulator. One was called a H.A.T.S. (Hybrid Automatic Test Station). They are used to troubleshoot and anaylyze. Even with all of that power the best it can do is come up with a PCOF (probable cause of failure).

 

 

 

Each PC has a completely different hardware and BIOS setup even when running the exact version of software. Start throwing in third party software and it becomes a nightmare beyond description. Yes, there is information that can be obtained from a crash, but what it means is an entirely different matter. I was in a buddys car once that stopped running as it was going down the road. The on-board computer he had suddenly stated in its' computer voice that the car had stopped running. Seriously! I still to this day wonder how much money was spent on research and production of that system just so we could be told the obvious without any useful information.

 

 

 

Back to A and B above. I would love to have something like that, but at what costs? Keep in mind also that information is only useful to the user if it can be 'used' and understood.

 

 

Each PC is different. I currently have 105 Mods running in my game with almost 350hrs playing time. I have zero CTDs' and zero LAG. I run on Ultra High. I'm not bragging I'm just pointing out that you can run Mods in Skyrim without issues. I can list all of my procedures for Mod useage but they would apply to only a tiny (if that) percentage of players because each PC is different.

 

 

 

So here it is: The ultimate (not all, so don't frag me) responsibility belongs to the end user. That's you if you're reading this.:tongue: Study everything available concerning any Mod you may install. Save, test, save, test, save, test. If it produces any error or issues, delete. Read all the forums you can. Ask questions, lots of them. And in the end you still won't have any guarantee. You can't just keep stacking Mods willy nilly on a software engine and then freak out when it S***s the bed!

 

To the OP: I can understand your frustration. IMHO the best resource for fixing your game is right here on the NEXUS. I am constantly impressed with the level of knowledge presented here and the willingness to help others. I gathered most of my Skyrim knowledge just by reading the forums here.

 

 

Now...let's all go play Skyrim!

 

Kudos to you, sir.