Real life inspirations for the Elder Scrolls

[robanybody2000]

Like I said before, most of Tamrielic races are too complex to be a version of any single real nation. BTW, Moors mentioned more than once in this topic also were not a single nation. Actually, europeans called almost any type of Mid-Eastern dwellers Moors.

 

As for the Mer, there's a well designed and described in fiction (including games) term "elves". We should thank Tolkien for this. (Thou he didn't actually "invent" them.) The same is with Orcs. See Warcraft series and lore. Modern Tamriel Orcs bear strong resemblance to modern Warcraft Orcs - a race of warriors, fierce, somewhat simple, generally straightforward.

 

Agreed. Tamrielic races have some resemblance with real life tribes/civilisations/empires/nations but can't be compared with one. I think every race has at least a few resemblances with a real nation but just as well some with others. (Like Redguards resembling Moors, Turks, an also Arabs)

[landy8]

And I've got an interesting opinion on Dunmer and Morrowind, and their real inspirations.

 

1. Dunmer had three gods that once were mortals.

2. Dunmer had their own religion unlike the one that existed in the Empire.

3. When Tribunal aghieved godhood, Dunmer were "cursed". And the names of their race and their land changed (Chimer to Dunmer, Resdayn to Morrowind).

4. Morrowind was a powerful state (even Reman Cyrodiil couldn't conquer it), but it finally surrendered to the Empire.

5. Later Dunmer began to forget their ways and their gods, adopting Imperial ways and gods. And House Hlaalu was leading that process (House Hlaalu was a house of merchants and... well, you know).

 

And so on.

 

Doesn't it resemble something? Something of XXth century history?

Edited June 5, 2012 by landy8

[sheepskin]

Nords - Obviously Scandinavian based all the way.

 

Imperials - Obviously Roman all the way.

 

Bretons - Early medieval French/Italian

 

Argonians - A general conglomeration of a lot of jungle-based cultures. Think first Africans meets Native Americans.

 

Khajiit - Have a fair base in desert cultures, namely Egypt and other areas of North Africa

 

Redguard - Moors

 

Altmer - Japanese with a flair of ultra racial supremacy but sans the warrior culture Japan was once known for.

 

Dunmer - These actually take more from their actual fantasy counterparts (Dark Elves), but they do have influences from Mesoamerican cultures (namely Aztecs and the Mayans) as well as Native American cultures in general. (The Chimer, who become Dunmer, who journeyed across into Morrowind parallel somewhat to the theory of how Native Americans are believed to have come to live on the American continents)

 

Bosmer - Tribal cultures taken to their extreme.

 

Orcs - Mongols sans the general use of horse combat.

 

Pretty much agreed, I think its important to realize not all races are based on specific societies, or even historical cultures. The Dunmer being the best example, heavily drawing from Dark Elf lore.

 

Aside from that, the only thing I'd like to add is that the Bosmer seems to draw from naturalist/primalist types prevalent in western cultures. While the Altmer seem to represent the financially elite classes; burgeousie. Hence the golden skin/eyes and lofty stature, its figurative. From this perspective, the Orsimer seem to represent a poverty stricken and over-worked proletariat, but... the correlation is too vague to make any actual assertions.

 

If I was to make any sort of correlation between the Mer, they're based on intellectual types more than anything. So if they're to be contrasted and compared, the context needs to be taken into consideration when dealing with them.

 

As in, the derivative base changes between Man, Mer, and Beast.

 

Mer - Distinction is derived from intellectual types

Men - Distinction is derived from historical societies

Beast - Distinction is derived from tribal societies; instinctual urges.

 

 

Interesting. You make some point about the Altmer being related to the bourgeoisie. Considering the Thalmor exhibit fascist traits (ethnic superiority, religion is important, I'd assume they want to make the Dominion strong), and considering 'fascism is capitalism in decay' (Lenin), you may have a point there. However, if we are going by classes, the Altmer society is one dominated not by the bourgeoisie, but by the Intelligentsia. And they wouldn't be Japanese, that would be the Tsaesci.

 

I'm not sure about the Orismer representing the proletariat. A possible vague resemblance, perhaps. But I wouldn't say the proletariat inspired the Orcs. Furthermore, I have seen not evidence that the Orcs use horses for combat. In fact, they apparently eat horses.

 

I knew the Bretons have a strong medieval French/Frankish inspiration, given some of their earlier names were very French orientated, and they have a stereotypical feudal system.

 

And I wouldn't say the Nords are entirely Viking. They are indeed heavily influenced by them. However, they do exhibit traits of other Germanic tribes.

 

Of course, direct correlations are senseless. We're discussing inspirations, which I think there is nothing wrong with.

 

I think I can draw a correlation between the Orsimer and an impoverished proletariat though. They're rugged and dirty in appearance from working labor intensive jobs. They also eat horses, which the working class has resorted too during times of economic depression. Their berserker rage can also be correlated to many "going postal" incidents recorded throughout history; rioting, the french revolution, and countless other isolated incidents spurring from economic depression. And lastly, they are pariah. Outcasts from Mer society, they seek justification, even if they are too bitter to ever attain it. Not too dissimilar from the working class seeking recognition and equality from the ruling classes.

 

I've thought about Dunmer a bit, not convinced they are completely abstract. If the Bosmer represent naturalist types might the Dunmer represent occult types? Looking at their behavior, culture, architecture, and color palette, I can't help but draw a correlation to a particular mindset possessed by a lot of goths, emos, wiccans, and other similar types.

 

To improve my previous derivations:

 

Mer - Super-ego, distinction derived from idealistic perception.

Man - Ego, distinction derived from realistic societies.

Beast - Id, distinction derived from instinct, abstract.

Edited June 11, 2012 by sheepskin

[robanybody2000]

And I've got an interesting opinion on Dunmer and Morrowind, and their real inspirations.

 

1. Dunmer had three gods that once were mortals.

2. Dunmer had their own religion unlike the one that existed in the Empire.

3. When Tribunal aghieved godhood, Dunmer were "cursed". And the names of their race and their land changed (Chimer to Dunmer, Resdayn to Morrowind).

4. Morrowind was a powerful state (even Reman Cyrodiil couldn't conquer it), but it finally surrendered to the Empire.

5. Later Dunmer began to forget their ways and their gods, adopting Imperial ways and gods. And House Hlaalu was leading that process (House Hlaalu was a house of merchants and... well, you know).

 

And so on.

 

Doesn't it resemble something? Something of XXth century history?

 

Indians? (The ones fron Asia I mean...) :psyduck:

[arshan272]

 

And I've got an interesting opinion on Dunmer and Morrowind, and their real inspirations.

 

1. Dunmer had three gods that once were mortals.

2. Dunmer had their own religion unlike the one that existed in the Empire.

3. When Tribunal aghieved godhood, Dunmer were "cursed". And the names of their race and their land changed (Chimer to Dunmer, Resdayn to Morrowind).

4. Morrowind was a powerful state (even Reman Cyrodiil couldn't conquer it), but it finally surrendered to the Empire.

5. Later Dunmer began to forget their ways and their gods, adopting Imperial ways and gods. And House Hlaalu was leading that process (House Hlaalu was a house of merchants and... well, you know).

 

And so on.

 

Doesn't it resemble something? Something of XXth century history?

Indians? (The ones fron Asia I mean...) :psyduck:

 

THEY EVEN CREMATE THEIR DEAD! People see their reverence for fire as something akin to dark elves in other mythologies BUT in truth this is both a Hindu and Persianate tenate (India had lots of trouble with persianate muslims in the past) Now all they need to do is hold a specific animal sacred and they're actually perfectly Hindu.

 

As for the imperials, before the potentate I like to think of them as being primarily roman/etruscan, but when the Akaviri invaded the culture was merged with a japanese one. The reason why the rest of tamriel have these japanese weapons is because the Empire (which has always been enormous despite not conquering some places) spread these efficient weapons around, and the methods of their creation.

Incidentally, the Dunmer also eat horses as well as the Orcs, but the Dunmer ride Guars.

As for the Bosmer, these are most like Tolkien's elves save for some aspects of the culture that are distinctly Celtic.

The Altmer are more intellectually based, but that is simply because their culture hasn't even been fleshed out yet. At all. Not even in Arena.

The redguards are weird, they may have been primarily Arab or IGA (Islamic Golden Age) based when they were fresh from Yokuda, but the Empire and the Bretons have had their way, not to mention the Dwemer (who are almost unquestionably Mesopotamian, btw). Their is a redguard with an imperial name (read: japanese) called Gaiden Shinji, a master of battle strategy and martial arts. In this way I believe that eastern martial arts in our world occurred in Tamriel when the early Ra'Gada met the imperials.

 

Bretons are frankish and germanic with the political strife level of renaissance europe, that's all that really need be said.

 

Naming conventions . . .

Elves take their names from tolkien for the Altmer, for the dunmer, I see this weird mishmash of Greek and Goth . . . actually, funny thing

The dunmer and dwemer are middle and southeast cultures, but some of their armour looks distinctly greek. Doesn't this hearken back to an event in our own history? Alexander the Great Hellenizing the eastern world, perhaps? Except in this case, the hellenization is their in the beginning, is vestigial, and can only be found in the names and some the armour (I cite indoril armour and dwemer armour for both the player and the constructs).

Imperial naming conventions for people are so Latin it's sickening. BUT, what about places? I see no correlation. Maybe Old English, maybe German, maybe Greek, even some Arabic, who knows.

 

On beast races . . .

Khajiit will be weird. If the Redguards have the IGA cultures, then what will the Khajiit have? They're a bunch of trade centric cats who live in a country that is always warm but has a wide range of climates like Jungles and Deserts. They're Iranian, dear friends, and I say this because I am iranian myself. Descriptions of Elsweyr, a place where their are both tropical jungles, dry deserts, cities burried underneath mounds of sand, it literally reminds me of home. It also, incidentally, reminds me of Bronze and Iron age Arabia, specifically the kingdom of Nabataea, a trade centric kingdom with its capital in the city of Petra, a city in the middle of the desert carved into the very mountains.

 

Argonians are so mesoamerican, but more peaceful, namely because of their religion. Well, peaceful except when the Hist possess them and make them attack Morrowind. Their cities, lingering on description alone (except thanks to ESO, petuee) remind me of those hidden stone monolithic temples and assorted blarg but without all the bloodshed, kind of like what people THOUGHT the Mayans were in the twentieth century. I frankly like this direction, I love that culture and I feel that one without the blood and ritual sacrifice is easier to defend in a court.

 

On the Akaviri

 

Akavir is The Elder Scrolls's Pandaria except it has ALL of the Asian mythologies, not just China and Japan.

 

On Pyandonea

They have complete creative freedom. So far, only the Maormer, the sea monster tamers, can be found here. I feel like this is what's going to happen after both Tamriel and Akavir are off of Bethesda's to-do list. Well, either this or . . .

 

Atmora

There are two races of humans not native to Tamriel, and those are the Redguards of Yokuda and the Nords of Atmora. Atmora doesn't feature the nordic pantheon or the allessian pantheon, it may not even be inhabited anymore, but what little we know is that the nords here revered animal spirits (dragons included) and when they traveled to tamriel, dragons got arrogant and ousted the other animals from the belief system, thus culminating into history that we all know and I need not explain.

 

I'm not gonna cover the extra races like Sload and Ehlnofey, because we know so little about them, but here's all I got.

[arshan272]

I made an oversight and forgot the actual nords, probably because I play too much skyrim.

 

The nords are indeed very scandinavian, slavic, but also slightly celtic as well, especially in the Reach. However, a part of this doesn't seem to add up; namely, the tendency to create Barrows and Tombs for honored dead and mummify these dead accordingly. This could've been influence from the Arkayan cult of the Empire, if not for these traditions going back to the time of the Dragon priests, who are mummified in grandiose fashion with servants to clean their tombs and tend them in the afterlife. Which they actually literally do: the Draugr, when not fighting, clean the tombs, relight the torches, and try to root out pests, while waiting on the whims of the dragon priest or king or tongue or revered hero. Ridiculously unrelated culture insert, anyone?

[kingwilfre16]

Ridiculously unrelated culture insert, anyone?

Zoidberg is your master now!

[MidbossVyers]

China and Morrowind have at least 4 similar points. In the old days, both had "Great Houses". In most cases, the naming convention is family name first (Indoril Nerevar). The current air quality in China is almost like the Blight, and both countries are ruled by a group of megalomaniacs who believe that they're gods. Also, they both have special names for foreigners (foreign devil/n'wah).

Edited July 6, 2014 by MidbossVyers

[arshan272]

China and Morrowind have at least 4 similar points. In the old days, both had "Great Houses". In most cases, the naming convention is family name first (Indoril Nerevar). The current air quality in China is almost like the Blight, and both countries are ruled by a group of megalomaniacs who believe that they're gods. Also, they both have special names for foreigners (foreign devil/n'wah).

n'wah does not mean foreigner, it is a curse. So perhaps we should look at the regions of the world that had the most cultural influence on each other. Thing is, there were great houses in India too, and there's plenty of blight there. Ruled by people who thought they were gods? The upper castes in days of yore were the upper castes because they believed they were directly descended from the gods (EHEM!) and were the only ones worthy of communicating with them (EEEEHHHHHHEEEEEEEMMM- Oh god my throat hurts). Mind you, India had ridiculous influences on China, from Buddhism right down to far eastern Hindu Kingdoms. Maybe we're looking at it wrong here, maybe the Dunmer aren't Hindu, they're just really, really Asian. Eh? Eeeeeehhh?

[MidbossVyers]

In terms of the Blight gas (smog) and megalomaniacs, I don't mean ancient China. I mean modern China.