Things in fallout 4 that simply dont make sense......

[CiderMuffin]

The difference is Lyons did it when the Brotherhood was weakened, ignored the actual issues the outcasts cared about (they didn't care about helping people but they especially say in 3 that stopping the search for tech was the result), didn't have the resources, fought on multiple fronts for areas that had no strategic value nor had any actual people living in them.

 

Lyons was a terrible leader tactics wise and saw that tech acquisition should be punishment detail (see the library quest in 3) and ignored issues like lack of resources. Maxson's BoS on the other hand has the resources, the manpower, the continued look for tech and doing anything to actually help wastelanders besides fighting super mutants in D.C.

 

Even the Citadel could be considered a bad choice for a base given D.C.'s state in 3 as it was surrounded by hostiles with no real trade routes the BoS could use, another factor is the Brotherhood ALWAYS used salvage tech that wasn't a threat or useful for them to trade with wastelanders, without this factor how does the BoS actually make money to provide resources like food or materials to repair with? That's why in 3 the BoS used T-45s, all their 51s were broken and Lyons didn't have the resources to repair them. What Lyons should've done was continue the search for tech and used his manpower to help protect caravans and settlements in the wasteland in order to recruit from, instead he focused on the Mall and GNR which were both not strategically valuable fronts, especially since GNR could be set up somewhere more safe then a super mutant infested ruined city.

 

Lyons, for all accounts, was a bad leader with good intentions but good intentions doesn't mean focus nor means he is a good leader. Maxson's BoS on the other hand salvages tech, protects caravans and helps wastelanders more then what Lyons did by not fighting pointless battles that he isn't equipped to handle.

 

 

Also so you're saying it's not realistic for someone to know how to be a carpenter AND a electrician and plumber at the same time??

Typically No. That's why those professions are specific and separate in the first place. You don't call a carpenter to fix your car or install a new electrical fuse box for instance. People that have worked in one of those professions their whole life still have to refresh their knowledge on a regular basis in fact just like many others. I would imagine that even a seasoned professional carpenter- lets say- would be hard pressed to produce anything worthwhile without the proper tools and materials. But, I guess I can understand why Beth would want to trivialize those details in the interest of keeping things simple for the casual gamer.....which was their target audience. Like I said- it's just "magic" that you know all this stuff without ever hardly hammering a nail or whatever in your whole life. They should never have discarded the skills system because it made things more believable and fun imo. :tongue:

 

Ok but that's still wrong is the thing. People can learn more then one skill in their lifetime and often in small villages or towns it's not unheard of for a carpenter or metalworker to know how to do other stuff. The whole point of the profession of handyman is to know how to do more then one skill, this has been common throughout history. For instance farmers usually knew how to tend to their fields, fix their metal tools, mend damages to their stone or wood homes and barns and various other work that can be characterized under another profession. This is still true in many Amish communities where farmers would still do stuff like construction and repair work as Amish communities are almost entirely agricultural.

 

Saying it's "magic" people know how to do more then one skill is entirely silly, it's realistic as humans never stop learning things. We weren't born with the capacity to learn one skill, again I myself know how to do numerous skills which already destroys your argument. Hell, people learn skills entirely unrelated to their chosen profession. I know people who build cars as a hobby but work in a different field, my dad does gardening and likes to build stuff but has only ever done IT tech stuff since he was in the Air Force. Skills aren't a profession only thing, people learn new stuff all the time, learning is part of being a person.

 

Also by the logic of "YOU CAN ONLY KNOW ONE PROFESSION!" every fallout game is now under your "it's magic" claim as stuff like medicine is unrelated to guns which is unrelated to hacking which is unrelated to repairing.

Edited September 9, 2018 by CiderMuffin

[TheGadget1945]

It's a subtle thing that bugs me more than it should, but containers in pre-war places that presumably should only have pre-war stuff... Having post-war stuff. Like, I doubt any city folk were really eating iguanas or squirrels, or stashing them in the office fridge, before society fell apart. And I'm pretty sure pipe guns are a post-war thing only too. I realize this is almost certainly due to containers using the same random contents lists, and in that regard it makes sense, but you'd think they could made specific content lists that only included things that made sense by pre-war standards and used those on relevant containers. But nope, game after game that same subtle inconsistency is there, despite it seeming like a tiny matter compared to everything else that goes into making the games.

 

Also, not that I demand vehicles actually work in gameplay, or even feel like they're particularly needed, but it'd be nice if there were some in-story explanation why so many robots have lasted two hundred years but not a single automobile can be used at all. What with all that standing city area in Fallout 4, you'd think a few cars would have been sheltered enough to just need some maintenance. But nope, each and every one was rendered absolutely unusable and irreparably destroyed without exception. Despite, for example, Codsworth managing fine on his own that whole time. And almost certainly being a more complex machine than the automobile.

 

And why do you never encounter a single person who buys, sells or repairs robots ?

[Fkemman11]

Ok but that's still wrong is the thing. People can learn more then one skill in their lifetime and often in small villages or towns it's not unheard of for a carpenter or metalworker to know how to do other stuff. The whole point of the profession of handyman is to know how to do more then one skill, this has been common throughout history. For instance farmers usually knew how to tend to their fields, fix their metal tools, mend damages to their stone or wood homes and barns and various other work that can be characterized under another profession. This is still true in many Amish communities where farmers would still do stuff like construction and repair work as Amish communities are almost entirely agricultural.

 

Saying it's "magic" people know how to do more then one skill is entirely silly, it's realistic as humans never stop learning things. We weren't born with the capacity to learn one skill, again I myself know how to do numerous skills which already destroys your argument. Hell, people learn skills entirely unrelated to their chosen profession. I know people who build cars as a hobby but work in a different field, my dad does gardening and likes to build stuff but has only ever done IT tech stuff since he was in the Air Force. Skills aren't a profession only thing, people learn new stuff all the time, learning is part of being a person.

 

Also by the logic of "YOU CAN ONLY KNOW ONE PROFESSION!" every fallout game is now under your "it's magic" claim as stuff like medicine is unrelated to guns which is unrelated to hacking which is unrelated to repairing.

 

I said typically most people don't know that much about every profession related to building. I would love to take you to a construction site and test your knowledge, Sweety. You don't know nearly what you think you do. :happy:

You've come just short of calling me an idiot and I don't appreciate that one bit. This is a freakin thread about a bunch of what ifs and maybes about a game- as in NOT SERIOUS!! So back off there champ and save all that hot air for something that matters. :thumbsup:

[LordValeth]

 

As for the cars? Put that down to just wanting them as semi functional set dressings (as in they can be useful in combat as explosives). You look at any apocalyptic movie or story, part of the atmosphere and world building is usually a lot of abandoned vehicles and wrecks scattered across the roads.

That and the engine would make using them clunky as hell as standard.

 

I completely agree this is the real answer In the actual game production reality. And personally, I'm fine with the game not having functional vehicles. But in terms of pure internal consistency and world crafting, I think we're due an explanation for why ground vehicles were the one type of technology that's absolutely 100% incapable of functioning after the nuclear apocalypse. Robots, computers, toasters, all those things could just sit for 200 years and be totally fine with a little luck and a favorable location, but not a single ground vehicle anywhere is remotely salvageable. Were they just built inherently differently from everything else? All I'm asking is that some writer at Bethesda explains that, not that some designer actually puts functional cars in a future game.

 

 

 

Apparently even bethesda labeled certain safes as "prewar," in the game but did nothing with that keyword

 

Interesting. I guess it's one of those things one or more designers did think of, but then ultimately was dropped somewhere else along the full production chain. It makes sense, it takes a lot of people to make a game like this, ideas fall through the cracks. Still, at least someone there thought about it. That improves my opinion of the matter.

 

 

 

The Brotherhood definitely will lose some Vertibirds in their many ventures into the Commonwealth.

 

Some? Most Vertibirds I've ever seen in action end up shot down. It's ridiculous. But I'm assuming their in-game effectiveness isn't their actual official reliability. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for the Brotherhood to have any left unless they're making new ones on a daily basis.

 

 

 

And why do you never encounter a single person who buys, sells or repairs robots ?

 

There was a travelling merchant in Fallout 3 who was in the robot repair and resale business. And of course, the Automotron DLC has some robot specialists. But otherwise, I agree, the amount of people in the robot business is weirdly low.

Edited September 12, 2018 by LordValeth

[Undeadbob666]

You got a car in Fallout 2, the Highwayman. In Fallout Tactics you got a Humvee and fought raiders with a slew of crazy patchwork cars. So only the new games don't have cars, because they can't be bothered to put them in really it would just make the tiny game maps seem really really small and the player would just keep asking "why can't I drive past this invisible wall."

[TheVampireDante]

 

 

 

And why do you never encounter a single person who buys, sells or repairs robots ?

 

There was a travelling merchant in Fallout 3 who was in the robot repair and resale business. And of course, the Automotron DLC has some robot specialists. But otherwise, I agree, the amount of people in the robot business is weirdly low.

 

 

General mistrust (or even fear) of technology due to the institute?

[TheGadget1945]

 

 

 

 

And why do you never encounter a single person who buys, sells or repairs robots ?

 

There was a travelling merchant in Fallout 3 who was in the robot repair and resale business. And of course, the Automotron DLC has some robot specialists. But otherwise, I agree, the amount of people in the robot business is weirdly low.

 

 

General mistrust (or even fear) of technology due to the institute?

 

 

But there are several robots co existing with humans in Diamond City and Goodneighbour as well as other places. They would need maintenance . And the Institute doesn't , IIRC, own a single pre war robot or appear to be interested in them.

[LordValeth]

And lets not forget that teacher in Diamond City who MARRIES a Mr Handy. He sure isn't afraid of robots, to put it lightly. And people talk about Graygarden's robot gardeners as a funny novelty, and nobody in Sanctuary is the least worried about Codsworth.

 

Clearly technophobia isn't that strong in the Commonwealth, people seem pretty comfortable around robots that can't possibly pretend to be a human and consistently regard them differently from the threat of undetectable synths. Just being an obviously fake looking early model synth was enough to help Nick be accepted instead of feared, after all. So Synth paranoia doesn't explain the lack of people working with the non-scary pre-war style robots at all.

[TheVampireDante]

 

Just being an obviously fake looking early model synth was enough to help Nick be accepted instead of feared, after all.

 

Took Nick a long time to prove to people he was trustworthy though, I imagine the first time he walked into Diamond city was quite a risk, even if he did enter with someone who was friendly.

Takahashi and the others mentioned are likewise long term "residents" of their locations for the most part. People see a Handy model that doesn't shoot at them on sight tend to not to worry too much. The teacher/handy pairing I didn't know about, I don't think I've ever talked to someone in-game mentioning that.

Far as maintaining them, Codsworth seemed capable of looking after himself, so I'd suspect that the Graygarden models are likewise as self maintaining. Protectrons seem to function as long as they stay in largely one piece.

 

Robobrains likely have some form of repair sequence loaded, at least on a basic level. Sentries and assaultrons - well, military models are tougher than the standard, and any damage done is is usually done to a point they no longer function (via combat encounters).

 

The only real "tech heads" in the Boston area as far as robotics seem to be the Rust Devils, or the Mechanist. Ada's friends/trader caravan seemed capable while alive, so maybe they did some repair work in their travels.

[LordValeth]

Nick didn't have the easiest time of blending in at all, sure, but he did specifically point out that being one of those easily recognizable early models actually worked in his favor. And not just because he got in before synth-phobia was at its peak. My understanding was that people were just more comfortable with robots they can recognize, it's the familiar robot paradigm and negates the scary mystery of robots who might be anyone. The first place he wandered into was pretty much just amused by the novelty of the mechanical man, as he put it. As such, the Commonwealth isn't really afraid of robots or technology at all, they're just afraid of the idea of robots quietly replacing them and doing who-knows-what with the original. And that's something a protectron or sentrybot could never do, so they aren't scary. It's your classic body snatchers/pod people/doppelganger fear, the technological basis is secondary.

 

As for the teacher who married a Mr Handy, maybe you missed it? You have to go to the school in Diamond City and say the right things to the uh... Miss Handy who isn't ready to make the first move. Then later the guy realizes "she" was the one all along and they have a small ceremony at the front of town and everything.

 

Regarding the possibility that all the old robots can self-maintain, that seems very possible. But you'd still think they'd occasionally just lose a vital servo or something and be left in a state where they're not destroyed, but pretty much helpless without some outside help. Like finding ED-E initially completely non-functional in New Vegas. Realistically, it shouldn't be at all unheard of for robots to find themselves in a comparable state between complete wreck and what self-repair can cover. I mean, I doubt a Mr Handy can build itself a new thruster from scratch. And even finding a replacement would be difficult without its primary means of motion. That'd be where robot repairmen would, and should, come in. Combing the post-apocalypse for robots too damaged to fix themselves, but not total losses either. And keeping them for protection and/or the help, or selling them to those who could use the help. It makes as much sense as being a travelling merchant as I see it, and there are sure plenty of those.