Kraeten Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Just like General Tullius wanting to execute him without a fair trial A fair trial...oh please. Did Ulfric give Tullius a chance to defend himself in a formal hearing? No. So please, don't try to act as if Ulfric is any better than Tullius. - how should we expect he'd ever get one in Solitude? He certainly won't get a fair trial, when he acts like a criminal fleeing the the scene of a crime. If he truly believed in the righteousness of his cause, he'd have stayed. If he was found guilty, he'd still have the chance to die a martyr. - thats a no-brainer. s***, they beheaded the guy who just opened the gate - which tells us Ulfric was already a condemned man. Or it tells us, because Ulfric fled like a criminal the gatekeeper then became an accessory to murder. Unlike Ulfric however, Roggvir actually had a spine and stuck around for the aftermath. Edited July 9, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 See, I don't know if the challenge was fair or not, you already have made up your mind it's not - and my guess is thats what Solitude (and certainly Tullius) did. There simply isn't enough details to make an informed decision - it's all hearsay and subjective thinking. The only thing I know for sure as a player character (without the benefit of hindsight) is the Imperials on more than 1 occasion have tried to kill me in the opening 15 minutes of gameplay - I sure hope they don't hold their breath expecting me to forgive and forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stemin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The only thing I know for sure as a player character (without the benefit of hindsight) is the Imperials on more than 1 occasion have tried to kill me in the opening 15 minutes of gameplay - I sure hope they don't hold their breath expecting me to forgive and forget. Yeah well... I don't know about you, but I woke up in a wagon with my hands bound, with 3 other criminals on our way to be beheaded and no backstory of how I got there. I sure didn't assume I was some kind of priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Only you know why you are there - thats my point. There isn't even enough information to make an assumption you even are a criminal. With no backstory, it's 50-50, not 100% that I was a criminal, and likely even less than 50-50 that even if I was a criminal that I deserved to die. What we do know is the normal penalty for a horse thief is not death by guillotine - and we saw that horse thief getting ready to lose his mind too. It looks like vigilantism conducted and sanctioned by the Empire - just based off the opening sequence. Is he on the list? Who cares, he goes to the block. Edited July 9, 2012 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Except, if you had payed any attention to skyrim's promotion, you would know that your character crossed the border illegally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) See, I don't know if the challenge was fair or not, you already have made up your mind it's not - and my guess is thats what Solitude (and certainly Tullius) did. Explain what you mean by "fair". Fair as in, it was a fair fight? We can safely conclude it wasn't. Fair as in legal? We can again safely conclude it wasn't. The only way it was "fair", was apparently Ulfric did indeed possess some ancient Nordic right to challenge Torygg to single combat. So what was the challenge really? An honorable duel, or really just a thinly disguised assassination? Given that Ulfric is happy to toss tradition out the window when it proves inconvenient to himself, I'm inclined to think it's the latter. There simply isn't enough details to make an informed decision - it's all hearsay and subjective thinking. Careful now, you're starting to sound reasonable. :tongue: Edited July 9, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I simply can't make the assumptions you are making - not enough information in the game to make an informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I simply can't make the assumptions you are making - not enough information in the game to make an informed decision. And you know what? That's totally fine. I just wish more people had the sense to take that particular position instead of rabidly defending one side or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Except, if you had payed any attention to skyrim's promotion, you would know that your character crossed the border illegally. Who would ever think that crossing an Empire held border into another Empire held territory was punishable by death? Then again, if your intention is to kill everyone in both wagons you really don't need a reason - just start chopping heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Who would ever think that crossing an Empire held border into another Empire held territory was punishable by death? Then again, if your intention is to kill everyone in both wagons you really don't need a reason - just start chopping heads.Actually your character was captured near the empire/stormcloak border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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