An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

I had a 2nd play through of NV because I wanted to try requiem for the wasteland. I finished it a couple of weeks ago and sided with an independent new vegas. Ever since, the whole idea of an independant vegas has really piqued my interest.

 

It seems so rich with possibilities including; diplomacy, small scale military operations, surviving assassinations, caring for you citizens, defending &expanding/enhancing NV, etc etc. Doubly true if all the factions are intact....then you could have some serious political intrigue. Both yes man (friend/foe/other?), House/Victor, Caesar, president Kimball etc would be returning characters.

 

You could decide if you want to focus on improving and fortifying new vegas, or if you'd like to extend NV's grip further into the mojave. Are you a ruthless dictator or a benign champion of the people? Do you spend most of your time strengthening trade routs to benefit your citizens or most of your time strengthening your securitron army to benefit your military prowness. Do you ally with the NCR against Ceaser, vice versa, or pit each faction against the other.

 

There would be small changes initiall. For example adding the securitrons to the player faction and adding new dialog (the pc is the boss man now), as well as new behaviors from other NV citizens. But relatively quickly the maneuvering from other factions would throw the PC into political/military conflict.

 

Some small(ish) scale battles to be fought (via your miny army of securitrons), that would invovle hands on combat but also rely heavily on strategic choices.

 

I think the reason this story line really appeals to me is two fold. One being it has so many choices/possibilities and the lore is already in place to strengthen the storylines. But the 2nd is the idea of the main story line of NV just ending is so anti-climatic. In many ways it seems like what happens after hoover dam is even more important than what preceded it. To me that's where things really get interesting.

 

All of the above, is probably not a very well spoken pitch, partly because there are just so many unfinished story lines/ideas begging to be extended and completed, that it's hard to sum up even a fraction in one post. But I think the above thoughts, even if they are just the tip of the iceberg, communicate some idea of what I'm shooting for.

 

You wouldn't have much in the way of new models or resources of that type, but it would be very heavy with dialog and scripting. And it would need some strong story lines to really shine.

 

Because it's scope is so huge and most of the mod wouldn't involve any actual meshes/textures etc we could probably just use a continually updated esp. Any bsa or resources would be updated much less frequently. The advantage here is we could start putting stuff out right away. Audio files would be the exception, but we can still do a ton and worry about audio when peeps start volunteering their services (except for securitrons which I'd like to make some barks at the begining of this project).

 

So what I'm really asking for here are two things. Modders familiar with quest scripts/dialog trees etc and story ideas. The 2nd (story lines) we can all contribute and I'm sure there is a ton of great ideas out there.

 

To start the ball rolling (assuming there's interest in the mod), there is of course House and Yes man.

 

House (and Victor) is easy. He's a paragon genius with intricate knowledge of every detail of the securitrons. His motivations re: the player are obvious. His resources are unknown, but we can assume he has a trick or two up his sleeve. Maybe he's retreated to some sections of vault 21 that were sealed to others. Victor is also a threat since he can surf the network, take over any securitron and try to really rain on your parade.

 

Yesman is a little more enigmatic. What does the new code do? Will Yesman be a future ally, foe or both?

[Eddieawsome]

What you are suggesting sounds great in theory. But the problem is it would require a massive effort by a dedicated team of modders. Like Project Brazil or Fallout wanderers edition. Im not trying to be rude but it is very unlikely that a mod like that will manage to see the light of day. Maybe once MZC crew is done and the FO3 community moves on to new vegas though......

[devinpatterson]

What you are suggesting sounds great in theory. But the problem is it would require a massive effort by a dedicated team of modders. Like Project Brazil or Fallout wanderers edition. Im not trying to be rude but it is very unlikely that a mod like that will manage to see the light of day. Maybe once MZC crew is done and the FO3 community moves on to new vegas though......

 

Oh yes, it has the potential to be huge, on par with the original game, or as small as just the strip. But that's hte interesting point, barring audio files for dialog you can put it together piece by piece by updating the esp (and hve only rare/occasional bsa updates would ensure people wouldn't be re-dowloading data frequently). Even with a massive number of scripts an esp is fairly trivial in size. The advantages, in this case, is you can release changes immediately instead of waiting for the entire mod to be completed. That allows details like new securitrons behaviors or dialogs to be released while we are brainstorming and later finalizing plot lines.

 

For example the first one might be very simple. New dialogs for the sucuritrons relating only to the pc, some new barks and behaviors (follow packages for two or three securitrons as well as a faction change). So you now have a couple of securitron bodyguards when inside the strip (or possibly the wider New Vegas area).

 

Two things would be a fly in the ointment in re: to what I'v typed above. One is audio files. They should be packed into the bsa en mass so people don't have to re-download data and therefore would be infrequent updates (which is fine because audio takes a while to process, even if you don't have any lip syncing to do). The other would be any data heavy resources (new meshes/textures etc) and they'd follow the same line as the audio files.

 

I'v already got permission from Kospy to fold his Lucky 38 Suite Reloaded into the mod (we just have to give back any improvements so they can be merged with his). So this would be an example of a data heavy resource and would go into the 2nd category I discussed above.

Edited June 2, 2012 by devinpatterson

[TrooperScooperMKII]

This sounds cool (I'm elated to see mention of the Reloaded mod, it doesn't get nearly enough limelight IMO) and definitely something I'd like to see.

Really, why stop at independence? An end-game in general, whether having a superior to answer to (and what sort of troops are supporting you) or envoys...

a lot of possibilities, and a lot of work.

[TrooperScooperMKII]

As to the various factions:

 

NCR:

assuming independence, Kimball is probably dead or impeached... what happens next really depends upon the successor and the player. If we want to meddle pre-Hoover Dam, it might be in the players' interest to side with either NCR or Ceasar as an independent ally from the get go, sort of like what House did to the NCR when they came for the Dam. Possibly including an assassination of House as a prerequisite, maintaining the power from Hoover Dam, and (maybe) keeping some of their troops in place. This last bit would make the transition smoother (NCR at least would accept rather quickly; you're just taking Houses' place, reaffirming the NCR's treaty and maintaining their position but ostensibly weakening Vegas by replacing 200+ year old genius House with a presumably opportunistic and less-competent wastelander, who is far more mortal/easily killed) but weaken your position, possibly even leading to an insurrection or assassination attempt.

Tying in to Honest Hearts, an independent PC could call upon Joshua Graham (spelling?) to "replace" Ceasar/Lanius and/or form an alliance. That's just too much of a plot point to ignore. I haven't played through Lonesome Road, but that might tie in too.

Having Benny involved is a big possibility, as IIRC there's a companion mod for him; why not go whole hog and have a partners in crime (or even a marriage alliance of sorts, assuming the player's a black-widow) to oust house or shore up support in the Strip. The minor players, especially the Boomers, are going to be very important.

Tying into this and taking a leaf from Dragon Age's anti-darkspawn coalitions, Jacobstown ("emancipation" for the Nightkin=powerful allies, and more than a few upset foreigners...) and the Brotherhood would be two potential allies- siding with the latter precludes Jacobstowns' involvement, and vice versa. Though it might be possible to get them to work together (as in, not kill each other) only one will be fighting for you. Either way, you annoy the NCR and probably quite a few other people too, but also get a heavy-handed mutant/paladin allied strike force.

[devinpatterson]

Really, why stop at independence? An end-game in general

 

Really several reasons I'd like to start with the independant NV (not ruling out expansion of other story lines ending later, once this mod is mostly complete);

 

It limits the scope and the workload.....just the one ending is daunting enough as it is (from a modders POV). There is a lot of global var being passed to various scripts that are far from straight forward (at least for a beginner scripter), and of course no clean up code for any of the ending scripts (because they never expect the player to continue past that point). So this plays to my weaknesses and will be challenging enough as is.

 

No Gods, no Masters is, IMHO the most interesting story line, especially if all factions and characters are preserved (more on that below). It throws the PC into the deep end without any warning or guidance (master) and is a myrid of possibilities. By contrast the other choices are far less interesting (if you follow the ending slides). Mr. House; NV stays pretty much the same. Legion; NCR gets pushed out and you loose a *major* faction/storyline, vice versa for a NCR victory. A NCR victory changes NV to a limited degree (the slide is vague on the results of NCR's anex), but a legion victory changes NV radically (most of the pop enslaved....as you'd expect).

 

And the last reason is just selfish....I like it the best. It seems to fit with the style of the lone wanderer in FO (since canon seems to follow the good karma endings). Good karma independent NV;

"Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man/woman responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He/she ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas."

 

 

 

So I thought we could divide this up into three categories; short, mid and long range/term.

 

For short term/range, this will include the stuff that happens in the immediate aftermath or very shortly after the battle.

 

HOOVER;

I think we should start with cleaning up hoover & the legion camp from both troops and hte battle effects. As well as placing the larger portion of the securitron army at the dam.

 

STRIP;

It's possible to have a neutral reputation with the NCR after flipping the substation switch if you were previously idolized. So the NCR embassy (and NCR peeps) can stay or go depending on your rep. and the player's wishes. The securitrons should be a player faction (at least until Yesman and/or House come back into the picture) and pliable to the player's wishes/commands. New dialog for strip inhabitants re: the players new status.

 

Also a key point centers around the upgraded securitrons. With the upgrades; "part of the Securitron army was diverted to The Strip to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life" but without them " the remaining Securitrons on The Strip were hard-pressed to keep order. Anarchy ruled the streets."

 

So it looks (to me) like the PC will have some breathing room after the battle if they have the upgraded 2.0 securitrons. But if they don't, the chaos on the strip starts right after the battle and the player is going to have his/her hands full until they can get the strip in order.

 

 

MISC MOJAVE;

Probably should have some small groups of securitrons traveling from the hoover area (their mini-vault) to the strip for the first week, maybe 3 or 4 at, with the majority staying at hoover.

 

Initially I don't think NCR/Legion influence in the Mojave should change.....later player actions can make the Mojave more/less enticing for one faction or another. Loosing hoover shouldn't initially affect Camp McCarran, Golf, Mojave outpost etc. NV may be the crown jewel of the region, but NCR expansion can continue in the Mojave just as it did when House controlled NV. More or less the same with the legion. As long as those two factions stay you'll have a balance of power more or less as it is now.

 

There is also a good self correcting aspect to that balance, later in the storyline of the mod. If you want to gain more control by pushing out NCR you have to devote more resources to not only holding the territory but taking over the required duties (or leave the Mojave citizens hanging). The NCR does a lot more than just hold military bases, they patrol trade routes, protect civilians etc, so forcing them out is not only challenging but will have serious implications/consequences...but that's more appropriate for the mid and long range story arcs.

 

I think useful way to look at this (historically) is as similar to the Italian city states of the 10th and 15th centuries. A lot of the history somewhat mirrors NV's. The city states were inside a larger power, were able to preserve more of the advanced roman tech/knowledge when the empire fell and in general were more advanced).

 

And the biggest benefit, is that initially, I won't have to make any huge changes to the wasteland (got enough to do on the project as is).

 

 

I only have knowledge of siding with NCR and Yesman up until the end, so I'll try to comb though the scripts and see if it's possible to complete no Gods no Masters with a neutral rep re: legion

 

 

Any other obvious stuff I'm missing that happens directly after the battle?

Edited June 3, 2012 by devinpatterson

[Quetzlsacatanango]

What you are suggesting sounds great in theory. But the problem is it would require a massive effort by a dedicated team of modders. Like Project Brazil or Fallout wanderers edition. Im not trying to be rude but it is very unlikely that a mod like that will manage to see the light of day. Maybe once MZC crew is done and the FO3 community moves on to new vegas though......

Not a 30 minute cakewalk, but not near as bad as all that.

[devinpatterson]

Tying into this and taking a leaf from Dragon Age's anti-darkspawn coalitions, Jacobstown ("emancipation" for the Nightkin=powerful allies, and more than a few upset foreigners...) and the Brotherhood would be two potential allies- siding with the latter precludes Jacobstowns' involvement, and vice versa. Though it might be possible to get them to work together (as in, not kill each other) only one will be fighting for you. Either way, you annoy the NCR and probably quite a few other people too, but also get a heavy-handed mutant/paladin allied strike force.

 

Yeah good point on the interaction between the BOS and the super mutants. I'd actually completely forgot about Jocabstown....thanks for pointing that out.

 

Having Benny involved is a big possibility, as IIRC there's a companion mod for him; why not go whole hog and have a partners in crime (or even a marriage alliance of sorts, assuming the player's a black-widow) to oust house or shore up support in the Strip. The minor players, especially the Boomers, are going to be very important.

 

I don't see Benny having much in teh way of power, since he's pissed off just about all the major players (factions). But apparently he's highly intelligent (don't really see it) and a survivor, so he could pop up somewhere or be recruited as you sugges (seems to me like keeping a pet viper, but each to his own).

 

True re: the boomers, plus they can have a bomber.

 

I haven't played through Lonesome Road, but that might tie in too.

 

At the end you have the option to really piss off the legion or NCR and gain big time infamy by (spoiler if you haven't played it)

nuking one or the other , resulting in a small irradiated ground zero for each (long 15 for NCR, someplace close to cottonwood for legion, I think.

 

 

Re the back story for the divide; I don't think it has any real connection with current events except for one detail. There is mention of a very tough critter that could potentially infest the Mojave and cause a lot of damage.

 

If we want to meddle pre-Hoover Dam,

 

I think it's important, that we don't affect anything that might alter the vanilla ending, I'd really like it to be hands off. I don't want to F up the main questline.

 

assuming independence, Kimball is probably dead or impeached...

 

Well lets not give that one away for free. Rather it can be part of a long range story arc if the player wants to become involved in deposing Kimball.

 

Plus as great a loss as the dam is, I don't think we should assume it's automatically a death sentence for the Kimball administration. I mean if new vegas changes ownership but stays essentially the same in regard to it's relations with the NCR, the only real question is how much damage would loosing hoover really cause.

 

I think it must be mostly symbolic anyway. The dam doesn't send any juice back to CA, it takes men to hold and has cost the NCR dearly in the past. It is a bulwark/bulkhead against legion expansion, but a securitron army could probably hold it just as well as the NCR's current complement.

 

To me I don't see the player conquering/destroying the 1st tier factions (legion/NCR). I just don't think that should be an achievable option in the game (ruins the whole setting)......and isn't practical anyway. Even killing Caeser or Kimball only wounds each empire, they will go on. Not to mention the scope; both NCR and Legion extend far past the Mojave, making New Vegas look like a bit player, outside of the region. I think that's the best way to play it as well. The players actions affect just the Mojave or a little bit outside the region, but never really being able to truly threaten NCR or legion outside this limited scope. In other words, your battles will be here in Nevada, you won't be taking the fight to enemy lands. You are after all the owner of one small city and a dam in between two Goliath empires (well technically one is a republic).

 

But you can still have a huge impact in the Mojave itself, by who you let trade in your city, if you decide to push NCR or legion out of the Mojave, or become an ally of one or the other etc. A ton of possible story lines.

 

maintaining the power from Hoover Dam, and (maybe) keeping some of their troops in place. This last bit would make the transition smoother (NCR at least would accept rather quickly; you're just taking Houses' place, reaffirming the NCR's treaty and maintaining their position but ostensibly weakening Vegas by replacing 200+ year old genius House with a presumably opportunistic and less-competent wastelander, who is far more mortal/easily killed) but weaken your position, possibly even leading to an insurrection or assassination attempt.

 

 

But for convenience' sake I say we just leave the reputations as they stand at the end game. It's not as realistic, since you should take a hit from the NCR when you tell Oliver to beat it, your keeping the dam. , but it should allow up to a "dark hero" for NCR fame, and wild child for legion (If you were idolized by each respectively before the end game). That should be enough to run some story lines in regard to limited alliances. And there were a couple of events where you rep could be returned to zero (mark of Caeser for example), so we could throw something like that in.....if the player provided a incredibly valuable service to a faction.

 

Otherwise if your "hated" or "vilified" by either faction, you are going to be forced to kill it's members, and a lot of the more interesting story lines are going to be cut off from one faction or another.

 

Re mixed NCR crews at the dam: I don't think that should be the case initially, the ending was fairly clear on that point (securitrons take over). Later though, when your back in the NCR's good graces I could see anything from the same relationship house had, all the way to a shared defense of the Mojave (like your describing). Or simply something in teh middle like a mutual defense pack.

 

Yeah I think assassination attempts will certainly be on teh table from not only NCR and legion, but possibly the strip factions as well.

 

Tying in to Honest Hearts, an independent PC could call upon Joshua Graham (spelling?) to "replace" Ceasar/Lanius and/or form an alliance.

 

Might be a really tough sale. Joshua is public enemby #1 to teh legion, known throughout Caesars lands as the ultimate "marked" man.

[devinpatterson]

Also a few minor tidbits;

Sarah and other vault 21 members may petition the player to restore their vault (remove the concrete).

 

Does camp golf supply water to new vegas? If so it could give them leverage over the player.

 

Helios one is a weapon of mass destruction. It's purpose could be discovered by spies for a faction or used by the player.

[TrooperScooperMKII]

 

I don't see Benny having much in teh way of power, since he's pissed off just about all the major players (factions). But apparently he's highly intelligent (don't really see it) and a survivor, so he could pop up somewhere or be recruited as you sugges (seems to me like keeping a pet viper, but each to his own).

 

True re: the boomers, plus they can have a bomber.

 

Well, the big thing with Benny is, well, he's Benny. :teehee:

I guess his "foul play" could keep him somewhat loyal, i.e. no one else would tolerate him... but that's a weak argument. Mainly, I'm going from the canon offer of "ruling the strip together" if/when you free him from the Fort.

 

Well lets not give that one away for free. Rather it can be part of a long range story arc if the player wants to become involved in deposing Kimball.

 

Plus as great a loss as the dam is, I don't think we should assume it's automatically a death sentence for the Kimball administration. I mean if new vegas changes ownership but stays essentially the same in regard to it's relations with the NCR, the only real question is how much damage would loosing hoover really cause.

 

I think it must be mostly symbolic anyway. The dam doesn't send any juice back to CA, it takes men to hold and has cost the NCR dearly in the past. It is a bulwark/bulkhead against legion expansion, but a securitron army could probably hold it just as well as the NCR's current complement.

 

To me I don't see the player conquering/destroying the 1st tier factions (legion/NCR). I just don't think that should be an achievable option in the game (ruins the whole setting)......and isn't practical anyway. Even killing Caeser or Kimball only wounds each empire, they will go on. Not to mention the scope; both NCR and Legion extend far past the Mojave, making New Vegas look like a bit player, outside of the region. I think that's the best way to play it as well. The players actions affect just the Mojave or a little bit outside the region, but never really being able to truly threaten NCR or legion outside this limited scope. In other words, your battles will be here in Nevada, you won't be taking the fight to enemy lands. You are after all the owner of one small city and a dam in between two Goliath empires (well technically one is a republic).

 

But you can still have a huge impact in the Mojave itself, by who you let trade in your city, if you decide to push NCR or legion out of the Mojave, or become an ally of one or the other etc. A ton of possible story lines.

 

 

Well, Kimball is rather expansionist and militaristic, and it was noted that Baja is the main drive of the NCR expansion, which makes me wonder what's down there. Oil perhaps? Anyway, freeing up the Mojave resources (it's a huge resource and morale drain, as repeatedly detailed in game) for a main Baja push could hasten whatever pipe dream he has, and provided the player was nice enough (it SHOULD be possible to make amends, re: the treaty thing, I'm basically suggesting that the NCR would want/accept a player-run Strip as an ally, because 1. they need breathing room, 2. they need to save face somehow, 3. the diplomatic player presumably has some ties (or at least hasn't killed rampantly earlier) so, war makes strange bedfellows easily applies, and 4. there's always a chance to deal with the Strip later, and as I mentioned the player is presumably (from a remote NCR standpoint) in a more tenuous position than House, being mortal, less established/experienced, and occupied with peace and consolidating power. A temporary truce (and "alliance" a la House, i.e. electric power for peace/protection) isn't out of the question and would be mutually beneficial.

 

It all comes down to what the player wants to do and has done, as you've explained.

 

 

But for convenience' sake I say we just leave the reputations as they stand at the end game. It's not as realistic, since you should take a hit from the NCR when you tell Oliver to beat it, your keeping the dam. , but it should allow up to a "dark hero" for NCR fame, and wild child for legion (If you were idolized by each respectively before the end game). That should be enough to run some story lines in regard to limited alliances. And there were a couple of events where you rep could be returned to zero (mark of Caeser for example), so we could throw something like that in.....if the player provided a incredibly valuable service to a faction.

 

Otherwise if your "hated" or "vilified" by either faction, you are going to be forced to kill it's members, and a lot of the more interesting story lines are going to be cut off from one faction or another.

 

Re mixed NCR crews at the dam: I don't think that should be the case initially, the ending was fairly clear on that point (securitrons take over). Later though, when your back in the NCR's good graces I could see anything from the same relationship house had, all the way to a shared defense of the Mojave (like your describing). Or simply something in teh middle like a mutual defense pack.

 

Yeah I think assassination attempts will certainly be on teh table from not only NCR and legion, but possibly the strip factions as well.

 

Definitely a lot of Strip/inner court politics, and definitely a lot of assassinations, though the player isn't the only viable target.. it would be interesting to have a round of assassinations/a$$ licking to test the waters and/or reorder the totem beneath the player.

 

 

Tying in to Honest Hearts, an independent PC could call upon Joshua Graham (spelling?) to "replace" Ceasar/Lanius and/or form an alliance.

 

I meant as a potential "replacement" or even allied faction against the legion, with Graham exploiting the Legion's presumed power vacuum to incite revolts among the many tribes under the Kaiser Cow, sort of like how the player swayed the great Khans. Really, if a player's trying to keep the Legion occupied, calling up an old buddy with a bone to pick isn't too much of stretch. If that pal is a living legend, former Legate and infamous enemy, so much the better, it might add to the player's fearsome reputation. "I befriended the burned man, bow down before me!" or something to that effect.