An independent New Vegas mod.

[dangman4ever]

 

Re: Black Mountain

 

Before I put down my ideas for Black Mountain here are the in game endings for the area.

I sat down to respond to your post (as well as sgtKraigO's). I think some very interesting points we're made (I had completely forgotten or didn't know about Marcus allowing BOS tech in the past). As I was doing research, I decided to go ahead and abort this subject (at least temporarily) and let it revert to teh end game slides. I think it has a lot of potential but is a lower priority than many issues. Defaulting to teh end slides means we don't really have to do much of anything with it (the end slides are either Tabitha continues to blather or BM stays abandoned) as it's the same post game as pre end game.

 

Later once we have covered higher priority targets we can jump back to Black Mountain. In preparation for that, I'v included my blathering on teh subject (only partly complete) under a spoiler tag.

 

Blatherings;

 

 

 

What I'm proposing is (at least) two different use cases. One, is who settles black mountain (at least somewhat) permanently, and it will add to the character of the Mojave. The second is more directly related to impacting teh securitrons in a military maneuver (jamming the securitrons wireless network just prior or during an attack), and likely only attempted by NCR or Legion forces in a independent or house faction ending (and probably of relatively short duration, just for a quest).

 

So in the first case we have (at least) the BOS, Jacobstown, NCR and possibly others factions interested in BM. For the BOS, I assume the interest relies in it being advanced tech, but detection and communication with the home chapters (as evidenced by devilman's post) could also make it very valuable to teh BOS. For Marcus, it would return to it's past duties attracting SMs. For the NCR I think it could extend the reach of their broadcasts (that citizens of the core region enjoy) further north.....and propaganda can be a powerful tool (some would say essential for a republic).

 

However most of this is conjecture above and beyond the endgame slides. If we forgo creativity for simplicity (and we might have to, just because of the workload)

 

 

It's also worth noting that the Brotherhood have already staked a claim on Black Mt when Elder McNamara asks the player to install a device during the quest Eyesight to the Blind. We learned that McNamara was able to negotiate a deal with Marcus (leaving communications and detection systems switched on for the Brotherhood) before Tabitha's rebellion happened.

Is there a link or any additional details you remember in regard to the deal between Marcus and the BOS? Communications and detection both make a great deal of sense considering the Mojave's chapters relative isolation.

 

If the Brotherhood is led by Hardin then I can imagine the Brotherhood moving into the area.

Yeah I think this question mirrors the default future of the Mojave BOS as a whole. If led by Hardin the Mojave BOS will mimic the home chapters stance in ideology, the truce will eventually be broken and they will share the home chapters fate. I can't find the vault wiki entry that details the NCR operations penetrating the remaining BOS bunkers in the core region, but it made the BOS's future very grim. With Hardin at the helm, I think the NCR/BOS truce could end *very* quickly and without player intervention we'll be scripting a NCR Viva NV with NCR/BOS battles. For an independent Viva NV (NCR friendly), the player has more sway. S/He might be able to broker and enforce the truce, but without intervention s/he will have war in the couriers backyard.

 

In McNamara they have a new hope and flexibility that can result in long term survival. Some power sharing, with the player as the BOS/NCR liaison, should be possible. And I guess BM is as good a place as any to see how that experiment develops.

 

Perhaps a good place to start would be to use the Helios one end slides as a guide, since they take into account the truce. No truce, the BOS takes back helios and the area between it and hidden valley. With the truce they don't take helios under an NCR ending or an independent ending. I'm afraid I don't have time to fire up the geck, but if I remember correctly it was possible to strike a truce with Hardin as head scribe. So according to the developers the truce may carry more weight than who is head scribe. If that's the case we could also apply it to BM along similar lines. The writers considered teh truce but didn't factor in who the current BOS leader was.

 

 

 

 

I think it would also be a good idea to pull back the scope of the mod in general. I find I have less time for modding (especially in the last month or two) and am spending some of it on projects I'm not particularly enthralled by. So I'd like to focus my limited time. I thought it might be a good idea to (at least temporarily) 86 the post game quests and stick to addressing the immediate post game conditions based only on the end slides. It's a far more modest goal, and our loftier aspirations could always be realized further down the road.

 

The one big heartbreaker (at least to me) would be the loss (at least initially) of the independent but NCR friendly ending :sad: But it could be implemented later down teh road I would think.

 

In addition I'd start putting out mods that stand on their own with the viva NV tag and fold them into one faction mod. For example let's take ed-e's babies. I'll put out a mod that implements them and is a stand alone mod (the title will include Viva NV) but I'll also incorporate them into the 3 (or 4 if we do legion) main Viva NV faction mods. This way people can choose to take just parts and pieces of the main mod if they prefer. It also means it will be updated much more frequently.

 

That doesn't mean we have to stop discussing our more far reaching plans (quests, military battles with legion or NCR, resource management and building etc), as I'd like to see them implemented at some point. But right now I think it's best to have a mod that is limited in scope but gets completed vs a much loftier mod that may not see the light of day.

 

I'd love to hear your guy's opinions on the topic.

 

Do it. You are the sole developer for this. So whatever you think will help you out with your workload, just do it.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Regarding the mod I posted, it's basically a mod that sees the Mojave fortified post-House's death. It'd make a very good effect - showing that things really have changed, giving the visceral feel that the player is now lord of the Mojave and that nobody is going to take it from them. On a similar note, it'd be cool to see some Big MT tech around the place; some Hexacrete fortifications surrounding major settlements or something.

 

With regards to the character, fair enough - the problem with Yes Man is going to be dialogue. I'm a sucker for voice-acted dialogue, y'see. Can anyone here do a half-decent Yes Man impression, or is any good with autotune? The mechanical nature of Yes Man's dialogue makes reclipping and then autotuning a viable option, although just conventionally reclipping it means that it'd sound too choppy (he sounds a little too excited all the time for it to sound realistic).

 

Although my suggestion for the player waking up will still be a good way to kick everything off - gives time for stuff (e.g. the baby ED-Es) to happen without it seeming like the Mojave changed overnight, and makes for a nice introduction into Viva New Vegas.

 

Also, I'm in support of just sticking to the end-game slides. The only alteration I'd like to see is implementing the 'Brotherhood occupies HELIOS One' thing, which seems to have been cut very late in development; there are still a lot of resources for it, including the guards themselves (the formID for the Brotherhood guards at the facility is 00143924) - it'd be better than just having a major facility be abandoned.

 

As for the rest of the Mojave, our immediate priorities with this mod should be -

 

1) Removing obvious pre-Dam dialogue

2) Removing all NCR and Legion characters from the game

3) Scattering a few Securitrons and Wastelanders around former NCR and Legion camps (maybe if the Brotherhood and Boomers are still around then you could chuck a few Paladins and Boomers around the place as well)

4) Scripting automatic auto-enders for any quests affected by this change

 

And I also support the release of things like ED-E's babies under the 'Viva New Vegas' name - it'll increase popularity, and with any luck, we might even get to grab another couple of developers to expedite this project.

[Devilman1975]

Regarding the mod I posted, it's basically a mod that sees the Mojave fortified post-House's death. It'd make a very good effect - showing that things really have changed, giving the visceral feel that the player is now lord of the Mojave and that nobody is going to take it from them.

 

Whenever I see a mod that I don't like or wouldn't use I would just ignore it and move on. That suggested mod falls into that category for me as it looks over the top in the screenshots I have seen (howitzers and large chimneys on the Freeside buildings). I would strongly advise against using anything from that mod in Viva New Vegas.

 

On a similar note, it'd be cool to see some Big MT tech around the place; some Hexacrete fortifications surrounding major settlements or something.

 

I would rather just leave the Big MT stuff to Big MT. Even introducing Sierra Madre machines to the Mojave area would endanger the economy of Vegas (besides it's highly dangerous technology). The items of Big MT I would want to see is saturnite power armor and some way of getting the salient green technology to benefit the people of the Mojave. Adding new buildings to the game would not look lore friendly and would break immersion for players.

[seanbrenner]

I would like to help with the interiors just pm me what you would like me to do. I can't do any solid work till the 23rd of May due to important issues I have to deal with but after that I should be free for at least a week. If you feel my work isn't up to scratch just say so and I will stop no hard feelings.

[ElfWord]

At this point, the thread is 129 pages and filled with ideas. If the original poster is still around, it might be a good idea to edit the original post with a summary of where things are at, what's organized, what's needed, etc.

 

MarchUntoTorment suggested I hop in here since I was posting about an idea for a Black Mountain resettlement mod, but I wouldn't know how to contribute here other than to say anyone's welcome to use the ideas I've posted in my thread.

[MarchUntoTorment]

A possible solution to things like the fortification of Vegas is to make them completely optional, but simultaneously player- and lore-friendly.

 

How to structure it is quite simple. At the end of the game, when the player's chatting to Yes Man following the death/surrender of General Oliver, he'll ask the player something like "Well, now that you're emperor of Vegas, how do you want to proceed?" and the player could choose a few options such as (the following are only examples, please note) -

 

1) No significant change (cells remain identical aside from cleanup)

2) Heavy crop growth and an emphasis on farming (more water pumps and plowed fields around the Mojave to help feed its citizens)

3) Heavy fortification (a combination of the above mod and Big MT Hexacrete fortifications)

4) Economic growth (more shops and vendors [possibly just using travelling merchant lists for convenience's sake] spring up around the place, and the Strip's casinos become more popular)

 

This would happen right before the player falls unconscious; when they awaken, whatever they requested becomes truth. It allows the player to feel as though they're ruling the Mojave as they see fit with a minimum of effort on the part of our lovely development team. Perhaps the player can, at any time, if they feel like a change of scenery, ask Yes Man to refocus the Mojave's developments; a 'One Month Later' screen shows, and then they're back in business.

 

With all that said, this should remain purely in the realm of speculation until the basic version of Viva New Vegas is done. That, for now, needs to be the development team's top priority - allowing for an immersive post-game experience. We can focus on things like the actual ruling of New Vegas after that's done.

[devinpatterson]

Do it. You are the sole developer for this. So whatever you think will help you out with your workload, just do it.

Yeah I think at this point it's a must....just no other way to reasonably do it, and it allows us to fold in a much more expanded mod later down teh road.

 

Regarding the mod I posted, it's basically a mod that sees the Mojave fortified post-House's death.

I just couldn't see anything we could use from teh screenshots or the description

 

 

Features:

-Army of Lobotomites patroling the Mojave wishing for a nuclear winter.

-New structures added to the strip and freeside.

-Outposts set up in Goodsprings, Goodsprings Source, Primm, Grub-n-Gulp, Novac, and Sloan.

-Nine telescreens, activate them to read some nonsense. ;

 

 

 

To me it looks like a very alternate reality, author specific version of the Mojave. *But* I didn't install it, so maybe there are other aspects your referring to?

 

With regards to the character, fair enough - the problem with Yes Man is going to be dialogue. I'm a sucker for voice-acted dialogue, y'see.

We've actually had two voice actors volunteer for Yesman (both pretty decent). But even if we didn't he is one of the easiest voices to impersonate due to his cadence and energy. So I don't think we'll have a problem, and he is so iconic to the independent ending as well.

 

The only alteration I'd like to see is implementing the 'Brotherhood occupies HELIOS One' thing, which seems to have been cut very late in development;

Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly here brother. The end slides *do* illustrate the BOS taking back HELIOS One under the independent and under the NCR (if no truce is signed) ending.

 

As for the rest of the Mojave, our immediate priorities with this mod should be -

I really appreciate your enthusiasm brother, but this isn't my first rodeo.

 

2) Removing all NCR and Legion characters from the game

Victory at Hoover does not automatically grant extermination of NCR or Legion forces. The reach of the independent ending is open to interpretation (and I'll repost this in the "new developer thread", see later in the msg), because only Camp McCarran of all the NCR held locations is detailed. But there are various clues we can use to piece things together. Hoover dam end slides, and the various treatise and declarations issued by House make a guide for what is possible in the independent ending (possible as in options for the player to choose).

 

I'll go into that more in the new thread, but essentially Hoover, new vegas and "Outer Vegas" immediately become houses domain following the battle of hoover dam, and the order of withdrawal list these additional locations;

 

"New Vegas and its surrounding territories" includes (but is not limited to) Hoover Dam, McCarran International Airport, HELIOS One, and the El Dorado substation. If these conditions are met water and electricity will continue to flow (at a price) to teh NCR core region. This should be one of our Ind options.

 

Assuming the NCR comply with the above, there are many NCR locations still in use in the Mojave (all the ranger stations, Mojave outpost, 188, sloan, boulder city, etc). Some are iffy and butt up against the "outer vegas" area. Long story short, we're not going to see the NCR immediately vacating the Mojave (nor the Legion) as an automatic effect of a ind victory at Hoover.

 

Further conquest of Legion, NCR and BOS locations are possible in the extended version of the mod, but shouldn't occupy the basic mod.

 

We may or may not want to include the restocking of locations cleared by the courier in the base mod. Perhaps we should decide it on a individual, location by location basis.

 

I'll start a new thread called Independent New Vegas base mod-Viva NV so that we can continue to develop extended ideas in this thread (as the independent version is by far the most complicated faction ending) and use the other thread for our basic mod.

 

EDIT: wow those quote tags were really screwed up, but we're good now.

Edited May 14, 2014 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

I would rather just leave the Big MT stuff to Big MT. Even introducing Sierra Madre machines to the Mojave area would endanger the economy of Vegas (besides it's highly dangerous technology).

I'm of a similar opinion, especially as the base mod will be a lot of work in itself.....without adding quests to bring bigMT aspects into the Mojave.

[devinpatterson]

I would like to help with the interiors just pm me what you would like me to do. I can't do any solid work till the 23rd of May due to important issues I have to deal with but after that I should be free for at least a week. If you feel my work isn't up to scratch just say so and I will stop no hard feelings.

Thanks Seanbrenner, we'll need a couple of weeks to solidify the game plan for the base mod in any case.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Oh, hey, I wasn't aware that they occupied HELIOS One in any ending. That's neat - I personally always signed the truce so that I could have Brotherhood forces at the Dam. Not anymore!

 

Actually, while we're at it with this mod, could you quickly whip up a way to have the Brotherhood at the Dam without being forced to sign the truce between NCR and the Brotherhood? That always felt awkward to me. Maybe release it as a little fix under the 'Viva New Vegas' name - it'd be a simple enough mod (just a dialogue option and a script to spawn a squad of Paladins at the Dam). I can create another thread for that request if you'd like, though.

 

I think that it should be left up to the player to choose whether to form an alliance with the NCR or not - I know that many players would want it, and many wouldn't. As a someone who actually picks a defined character, some of my playthroughs have characters that would want to form an alliance and others wouldn't.

 

For the second alpha, I would take a binary decision made at some point (maybe through the player's final dialogue with Yes Man) as to the state of the NCR - or potentially through dialogue with General Oliver. In either case, HELIOS One, Camp McCarran, El Dorado Substation, Crimson Caravan HQ and Camp Golf would be evacuated of NCR. If the truce is signed, the NCR would become neutral to the player (also breaking fewer quests); alternatively, the player can refuse the truce, in which case the NCR remain hostile to the player and the Securitron faction is set to be automatically hostile to the NCR faction.

 

Regarding factional locations, I think that the abandoned NCR facilities should be occupied by various factions; Camp McCarran would likely be guarded by Securitrons (or maybe throw some Boomers around there), HELIOS One would have the Brotherhood there, El Dorado would be covered by either Securitrons or Brotherhood, and Camp Golf and Crimson Caravan HQ would both be occupied by traders (maybe the Followers could have a presence at Camp Golf too - they have a camp nearby, after all). It would feel wrong to have all those vast former NCR areas suddenly abandoned. I believe that Cottonwood Cove should be razed to the ground and all Legion kicked out of there, although others might disagree.

 

Also, it could be interesting to record some dialogue at those border locations you mentioned (Boulder City, Sloan, 188, etc.) about how tensions are high, and the NCR inhabitants of those locations are always nervous at the Securitrons rolling past. A lot of potential for expansion there.

 

Not sure what should be done with Hoover Dam, but I'm thinking that it should involve a fair few Securitrons to stand guard over it and some engineers from various factions (most likely Brotherhood Scribes, but the Boomers are also a possibility) in the interior cells.

 

Oh, and something important - we're going to need to change the Gamblers from the NCR faction to the Vegas faction, or else we're going to run into some pretty obvious problems.