PC Players Letdown?

[Brandy1123]

Ors, i like how you add libbed on some of what I said, and some so generously.

 

I laughed when i read your replies. Most of which has no bearing on anything i wrote about. purely emotional. it seems you probably needed to take a break after all that lecturing.

 

Not giving a crap about what people do with your data is part of the reasons the world economy is not so in the black. You can have the "ideal" business model they love to blab about. I prefer thinking for myself and making decisions on what and how I spend my ever fleeting resource of time. I am certainly glad you posted about not giving a crap in that thesis you wrote.

[Gamelan]

Not giving a crap about what people do with your data is part of the reasons the world economy is not so in the black. You can have the "ideal" business model they love to blab about. I prefer thinking for myself and making decisions on what and how I spend my ever fleeting resource of time. I am certainly glad you posted about not giving a crap in that thesis you wrote.

Interesting discussions you guys have here. The first part is a bit tinfoil hat for me. We're talking about a game and people who sit around playing games, not overvalued currencies and debt culture, but I see where you're coming from. To answer the OP question, if I were this game's developers, I wouldn't have worried about the PC version of Skyrim. It's clear they know the mod community will take the game in a series of completely different directions. The inclusion of the Workshop and all that points to an acceptance on the part of Bethesda that all they really have to do is provide a foundation for modders to improve upon. If you're talking vanilla, this game is a bit of a dull brownish greyish letdown, but I feel the voice acting and a lot of the basic content has provided a nice platform for the mod community to improve upon. If I had to choose, obviously the console version of Skyrim is a far bigger letdown. Giving them first crack at new content is just throwing them a bone.

[Bael]

I personally do not mind Steam, just as long as I never have to deal with Games For Windows Live ever again in my natural or unnatural lifetime. Yes it is something I'd rather not have to deal with but I understand why they would want to pick something up like it, as a company. The security on Bethesda games has always been comparatively light; it is easier to control things like that through Steam. I try to avoid dwelling on decisions that probably came from higher up rather than the people making the game. And hey Steam does feature a lot of indie games, which as a whole I think is a plus for the industry.

 

It was never my intention to buy Skyrim for a console, but I was disappointed when I heard Bethesda was in the process of making mods available for the consoles before it was shot down. I do not remember if it was Microsoft or Sony that wouldn't allow it on account of the copyrights. I think it would have been a great benefit to the community to gain the attention of the console population.

 

http://i.qkme.me/3omnqu.jpg

 

Also boy am I glad nobody started talking about the engine. That happens to me a lot.

[oldspice2625]

It's not just "petty" or "shallow" inconveniences here. We are talking about the betrayal of the VERY FANBASE that lead to the RISE of this company's staple product. How anyone can use gamepad for these games is beyond me. I wouldn't try. Games like Assassin's Creed or something make sense to utilize that... but something like this? Nah bro, you're doing it wrong.

 

This whole thing is about how the games get more and more watered down. Arena and Daggerfall were PC only, and they are stellar. Morrowind was ported to the consoles, but was still designed for a PC, very good and solid game but it has its issues (i'm looking at you, melee system!). Oblivion... is half and half. Oblivion is one of those rare games that still was great with mods, and vanilla is tolerable, though laughable once mods are experienced. SKYRIM on the other hand, is totally Console. And it sucks. Vanilla is TERRIBLE. Don't even TRY to tell me you like vanilla. If you need at least one mod to make the game bearable, then you can't say you like vanilla. I'm sorry, you can't.

 

Don't tell me the stupid Magicka regen thing they have now is good. Don't tell me watered down magic systems and enchanting are fun to experience. Don't tell me all the bugs and low quality textures and meshes are nice to look at. Don't tell me all these "menu improvements" and the UI in general are good. No... it's crap. This is a mediocre game that is made bearable by mods. I was done with skyrim in about 50 hours. I'll be honest with you, i've never stomached through and completed the main questlines or any questlines other than theives guild and brotherhood... they were both terrible in comparison.

 

Vanilla oblivion on PC got me at least 200 hours of play time and people gripe about that... With mods? 3000 hours at least. Skyrim? Mods can't even hold my attention to the game, however, I will admit with a HEAVILY modded skyrim to make it JUST BEARABLE I have cracked about 150 hours. This is like giving money to someone for a long time, for a lot of content, and then getting spat in the face and slapped.

 

My rant's point is this: IF YOU MAKE A CONSOLE GAME AND PORT IT TO THE PC, WHEN YOU ORIGINALLY DESIGNED GAMES FOR PC, YOU ARE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME!

 

Skyrim REEKS of console stink. I hate consoles, My last console was a nintendo 64. I do play on my sister's wii for my near and dear mario/DK/zelda fix, but that's it, and not very often at all. Consoles got people to game, they do now, but PC games are far superior. Don't water down my whiskey and I won't water down yours.

[Rooker75]

The letdown for me was all the hype about "a brand new Creation Engine™!" from Todd Howard to every person with a microphone and press badge, just to see that it's nothing but the same old ancient Gamebryo engine with a new coat of wax. The data archives still reference stuff from Fallout 3. I could probably find references to Oblivion data if I looked hard enough. All the hype about the creation kit and why it's took so long to release and how awesome and full of win it is! And it's basically just the same old editor we had for New Vegas, FO3 and Oblivion.

 

It's not the end of the world that they recycled the old engine and editor. It's still a great game, even with the old codebase. It's great that they release an editor at all. It's just that they heavily played up the "New engine! New engine!" angle and a large part of my decision to get Skyrim over another game was to check out what Fallout 4's engine would look like, since this is probably it. It's annoying they felt the need to make misleading statements like that and it's a little annoying that nobody called them on it.

 

I also share the dislike of console disease creeping into PC games, like the kludgy menus, low-res textures and massively oversized fonts. Remember how much trouble we had trying to rebind the "2" button in New Vegas, because it evidently corresponded to some button on Xbox controllers? Ugh. That's probably why people have so much trouble rebinding the Favorites button in Skyrim.

 

It could be worse though. There are some games out there with so much console rot that you can't even make a quicksave. They just create autosaves at certain "checkpoints" and too bad for you if you want to save your game at any other point.

[Stemin]

To answer the OP question, if I were this game's developers, I wouldn't have worried about the PC version of Skyrim. It's clear they know the mod community will take the game in a series of completely different directions.

 

I agree with the above.

 

In my experience the few months I've been here, most of you haven't even PLAYED Skyrim. I haven't seen hardly anyone say they don't use mods and most of the people here say they use tons. The game isn't that old. Have you guys really explored much of Skyrim before you decided you needed to change it?

 

Have you located all the missing apprentices from the mage's college?

 

Did you find the mammoth encased in ice?

 

How many random encounters have you had on the road?

 

Honestly, the people in this thread are the ones who are really playing the game: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/522369-your-memorable-nonquestnonscripted-stories/

 

How can the PC community complain all the time that the consoles are the ones Bethesda cares about? The consoles didn't get the console commands. They don't get the creation kit. They didn't get the free space core dlc. They didn't get the HD texture pack. They certainly can't use mods.

 

And the moment most PC players got the game they started dreaming up ways to change it.

[Brandy1123]

Stem, you are absolutely right.

 

Theconsole version didn't get all those things. But what the console version also didn't get was a PC game ported for them that had serious control issues, menu faults, unstable graphic overlays, and graphic rendering issues.

 

We got a console game with a PC label. Don't even start about people in this thread not playing Skyrim. You have no idea. Yes, i had a mod within hours of release. I had a mod that allowed the game to run. It was riddled with errors and horribly written code. They, at Bethesda, knew it then and still know it today. I logged some 300 hours in vanilla (except for the menu fix/keyboard map mod so i can actually run my character. The mammoth is not encased in ice, it sits on the edge of a glacial ice shelf. yes i saw it. I found the skeletal hand pointing up in the woods (spiders in trees), i found hidden a 2nd dawn breaker sword . what, you didn't find that one? hmmm, maybe you should reload and go search again. I know of a barrel with decent things in it that respawns every time you enter the cell, I have climbed up to the throat of the world from the West, I even climbed up to the top of Bard reach without the staircase and talked to the spirit bard on my way down. I used pits and trap doors to gain entry into fortresses, I saw a tent for lovers and a man who died of a broken heart. I know of 4 vanilla coffins that have something in them and a location where a "live" draugr is stuck in the wall. I have seen the sword in the pond, the bathers in the hot spring and know of some 35 vanilla spawn points I charted on my map. I can tell you where there is air you can climb like a mountain and a mountain you can walk through. I can also show you 3 ways do disable STEAMypile.

 

I can also tell you about 14 sub quests that fail immediately, I can point you towards unfinished quests with the thieves guild, mages guild and assassins guild.

We get the creation kit to add and fix bad or broken content they refuse to do. Also, they used it as advertisement to sell us the game. Getting commands from the console may be a cheat to some, but its also a necessity to fix or bypass the riddled errors. No, we didn't dream up ways to change the game play before we started, only after we realized our community can fix what they won't.

 

We all love the game. We all have hundreds to thousands of hours (1500+). We have put in our time helping others fix or get through bad spots in the game. We have written code to fix or make better the experience. We have added graphics to somewhat update this for our hardware. We have made improvements to increase our code abilities and knowledge. We all have given this to our community to keep this game fresh and alive. Why? Sure, it helps game play and if there is a way, a modder will find it, but really, because Bethesda wont.

 

So, why do we use mods, how a bout because we have long tasted vanilla and now we want flavor.

 

I honestly love the fact that people like you (and me) can wander the lands and appreciate the talented work Bethesda did give us. But it was only given to us (PC'rs) as an after thought. After you "been there, done that got the T-shirt" you need change and new blood to stay interested. Mod's give that to us.

[Stemin]

Stem, you are absolutely right.

 

Theconsole version didn't get all those things. But what the console version also didn't get was a PC game ported for them that had serious control issues, menu faults, unstable graphic overlays, and graphic rendering issues.

 

No, what you got was a game written to be used with a gamepad, but you guys are elitist pc gamers, so you're beyond that. Your whole post is riddled with a sense of entitlement that you deserved something better than what the consoles got.

 

We got a console game with a PC label. Don't even start about people in this thread not playing Skyrim. You have no idea. Yes, i had a mod within hours of release. I had a mod that allowed the game to run. It was riddled with errors and horribly written code. They, at Bethesda, knew it then and still know it today. I logged some 300 hours in vanilla (except for the menu fix/keyboard map mod so i can actually run my character. The mammoth is not encased in ice, it sits on the edge of a glacial ice shelf. yes i saw it. I found the skeletal hand pointing up in the woods (spiders in trees), i found hidden a 2nd dawn breaker sword . what, you didn't find that one? hmmm, maybe you should reload and go search again. I know of a barrel with decent things in it that respawns every time you enter the cell, I have climbed up to the throat of the world from the West, I even climbed up to the top of Bard reach without the staircase and talked to the spirit bard on my way down. I used pits and trap doors to gain entry into fortresses, I saw a tent for lovers and a man who died of a broken heart. I know of 4 vanilla coffins that have something in them and a location where a "live" draugr is stuck in the wall. I have seen the sword in the pond, the bathers in the hot spring and know of some 35 vanilla spawn points I charted on my map. I can tell you where there is air you can climb like a mountain and a mountain you can walk through. I can also show you 3 ways do disable STEAMypile.

 

I can also tell you about 14 sub quests that fail immediately, I can point you towards unfinished quests with the thieves guild, mages guild and assassins guild.

We get the creation kit to add and fix bad or broken content they refuse to do. Also, they used it as advertisement to sell us the game. Getting commands from the console may be a cheat to some, but its also a necessity to fix or bypass the riddled errors. No, we didn't dream up ways to change the game play before we started, only after we realized our community can fix what they won't.

 

We all love the game. We all have hundreds to thousands of hours (1500+). We have put in our time helping others fix or get through bad spots in the game. We have written code to fix or make better the experience. We have added graphics to somewhat update this for our hardware. We have made improvements to increase our code abilities and knowledge. We all have given this to our community to keep this game fresh and alive. Why? Sure, it helps game play and if there is a way, a modder will find it, but really, because Bethesda wont.

 

So, why do we use mods, how a bout because we have long tasted vanilla and now we want flavor.

 

I honestly love the fact that people like you (and me) can wander the lands and appreciate the talented work Bethesda did give us. But it was only given to us (PC'rs) as an after thought. After you "been there, done that got the T-shirt" you need change and new blood to stay interested. Mod's give that to us.

 

I'm glad you can do all these things. And no, I don't know all of them. I only have 1200 hours in. And that's what _I_ love about this game. I've put in 1200 hours and I'm still finding new things every day.

 

I don't believe for a second you're the rule and not the exception. I've been reading these forums every day listening to people talk about how they got bored after 100 hours, or 150 hours, or they think they've accomplished something because they logged 300 hours. You can't see everything in this game in 300 hours.

 

And again, your problems with the game stem from your preconceived notions of what a PC gamer deserves. You complain about not being able to use your keyboard and mouse properly, how about a game that was supposedly written for consoles that had huge FPS drops on PS3 because Bethesda can't be bothered to optimize their stuff. THEN they released a patch that was supposed to fix it and it made it worse. THEN they admitted publicly that they foresaw these problems before launch and released the game anyways.

 

Your complaints might be valid within your own circle where you share the same expectations, but to someone who can sit back and appreciate the game for what it is, I just don't get it.

 

This is an amazing game. And on top of that Bethesda allows you to edit almost everything in it. They give away free features and DLC's, and still I hear you guys complaining day in and day out.

 

I remember playing Atari with one button and some 4 bit blocks on the screen and you're going to complain because you don't want to play with a gamepad? Because your graphics aren't good enough?

 

Learn to appreciate reality. The reality is, very few companies are making a game this good that has this many hours of play available.

 

I don't care what your complaints are, you can't tell me you didn't get your $60 worth in 1500 hours of play.

[Bael]

 

 

No, what you got was a game written to be used with a gamepad, but you guys are elitist pc gamers, so you're beyond that. Your whole post is riddled with a sense of entitlement that you deserved something better than what the consoles got.

 

 

 

For the record I am hardly an elitest pc gamer, I work with a $600 dollar pre-built comp, I played Deus Ex on a PS3, and in total I think I've only managed 150 hours into Skyrim in my two playthroughs. And I started the thread. I took to The Elder Scrolls with Morrowind when it gained in popularity, but I am still a fan. I've been a member of the Nexus since '07 and I think the talented, dedicated fanbase they built and kept with them should at least have a game that was designed to be used with our keyboards and mice.

[Stemin]

For the record I am hardly an elitest pc gamer, I work with a $600 dollar pre-built comp, I played Deus Ex on a PS3, and in total I think I've only managed 150 hours into Skyrim in my two playthroughs. And I started the thread.

 

And obviously my comments weren't directed at you, although clearly some of them apply.

 

I took to The Elder Scrolls with Morrowind when it gained in popularity, but I am still a fan. I've been a member of the Nexus since '07 and I think the talented, dedicated fanbase they built and kept with them should at least have a game that was designed to be used with our keyboards and mice.

 

Yeah, and PS3 players thought they should at least have a game that you wouldn't slow down after your save file reached 10 mb.

 

Everyone has their own opinion of how things SHOULD be. It's Bethesda's game to create. This one wasn't targeted at PC's. It was targeted at consoles. Specifically, the XBox. Like it's been said over and over again, the PC got a port. It wasn't designed for PC. You guys should be happy that you get the CK, the console to fix errors, HD texture packs and DLC's that nobody gets, but you're not. Nobody's ever happy.

 

Even 150 hours of play is definitely worth $60.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Stemin