Georgia and Russia

[Varus Torvyn]

New Update: Russia has suspended offensive operations in the region.

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/a...ion-in-georgia/

 

The source where I viewed this article followed it with a link to a press-release about US President George Bush denouncing Russia's continuation of attacks beyond the point where Georgia was pressing for a cease-fire, and I'm not sure if this news agency was attempting to imply that Russia only ceased its attacks due to Bush's statements (I highly doubt it).

 

After nob0dy's explanation of the Vendetta tradition in the region, I think I understand why they would continue the assault for a time beyond Georgia's capitulation... probably the only way they could achieve some likelihood of preventing the Ossetians from conducting mass-scale vigilante attacks against Georgian citizens.

 

Since most of the print media is liberal, it would be both rare & out-of-character for them to support a conservative president.

 

I sincerely hope that Putin won't entertain any thought of annexation. History shows that Russia did that a lot. My only thought here is if the people of Georgia wish to stay free of communist control, then they should have the chance to live their life the way they desire.

[Timihendrix91]

Isn't the Washington Times a pretty conservative paper?

[Varus Torvyn]

Isn't the Washington Times a pretty conservative paper?

 

The more the better for our nation. Right now, the only one that comes to mind is The Weekly Standard. I don't subscribe to newspapers anymore. Every one in my area is 100% liberal, so not fair & balanced like Fox News. That's why I gave up on Network TV news also.

[Timihendrix91]

Heh, yeah, most TV news channels are dumb. I like some shows on MSNBC though. They seem to be pretty moderate, compared to CNN and Fox anyway.

[DarkWarrior45]

Heh, yeah, most TV news channels are dumb. I like some shows on MSNBC though. They seem to be pretty moderate, compared to CNN and Fox anyway.

 

I usually don't watch the tv news channel, although I do check out the site www.drudgereport.com

[humanbean234]

My news source is the Earlybird, a daily collection of synopses of open-source articles with links to the original article.

The Earlybird is produced by the US Federal Government, and is part of the daily briefing to members of the US House of Representatives and US Senate. It's somewhat limited, in that it only lists stories that pertain to US national interests, but it's as completely unbiased as is humanly possible.

 

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/ebird.htm

[RayTracer]

humanbean234: thanks! It's my mistake. I should find article in english and quote it here, instead of translate from russian. Of course there is no any vendetta between Ossetia and Switzerland. Vitaly Kaloev - it's just example. He realised his PERSONAL vendetta against that man, which was guilty in death of Kaloev's family. And Kaloev knew, who is guilty in death of his family. And Kaloev realised his vendetta against this man - swiss aviadispatcher. But people in Tskhinvali do not know who killed members of their familys. People just saw that it was georgian soldiers. And now enmity between the nations has expanded with new force.

 

And i don't know what now will be ... South Ossetia and Abkhazia want to be independent from Georgia. Georgia wishes to keep them as a part of the Georgia. But after Georgia has attacked South Ossetia they hardly will agree. Also now they hardly will agree with presence of the georgian peacekeepers on the ossetian and abkhazian territory. Russian government will support a position of Ossetia and Abkhazia, i think. But our politicians say that now is prematurely to speak about independence of Ossetia. I think, now they will try to keep provinces as a part of Georgia. I don't know... But, as before, there will be some russian military presence in the ossetian and abkhazian territory - i do not doubt it almost. Peacekeepers from the NATO countries in this region are undesirable. Probably for this purpose will be involved peacekeepers from other countries of Caucasus. Probably, from Armenia, for example. I don't know. It is simple the assumption. If Saakashvili wished to unite Georgia, he has made for this the WORST that he could.

 

I don't think it's a communist regime that's currently in power, but I do think that the current Russian government is NOT a friend of the west, aka US, UK, France, etc...

I see, you not in a course of arrangement of political forces in the world. France, Germany and Italy is our major economic and political partners in Europe. :) This is one of the reasons why the french president now mediates in negotiations between Georgia & Russia. England almost always holds the same opinion, as the US, but reserves the right to itself to criticise sometimes some actions of the US government. It's only US and UK governments have unconditionally supported Georgia in this conflict. Other European countries have much more more weighed opinion about this conflict. Therefore i prefer to read the European media to learn a trustworthy information. Georgia and US on the one hand, and Ossetia with Russia on another, they - interested parties. That's why their media will not tell all the truth. And here that speaks Times (UK; i think, you know The Times - this is one of the most influential newspapers in UK, if not the most influential):

 

The West, in particular America, has stoked the regional fire. At the Nato summit in Bucharest this year it pressed for Georgia and Ukraine’s membership of the alliance. The move was blocked by the Europeans but Nato did give a commitment to offer the two countries membership later. That move was seen in Moscow as a challenge to its dominance in what it calls the “near abroad”, the former Soviet republics.

 

Since then Russia has made clear in word and deed that it will do anything to prevent Nato’s expansion on its western and southern flanks.

 

America and Britain are closely involved in providing military assistance to the Georgians in the form of arms and training. The support is aimed at encouraging the rise of Georgia as an independent, sovereign state.

 

But the help is also partly a means of protecting the oil pipeline across Georgia that carries crude from the Caspian to the Black Sea, the only export route that bypasses Russia’s stranglehold on energy exports from the region.

Surprise-surprise! It's all about oil again. :) And i want to underline, that it is written by an UK press, which is pro-georgian in this conflict, not pro-russian. So the nearest partner of the USA in Europe actually officially admitted, that US and NATO have political interests in this region, and provide some military assistance to Georgia. Policy is a dirty thing ... Because of it people die.

 

And about "Moscow's dominance" in the East Europe and former Soviet republics... We don't want to RULE in these countries! But we also don't like rockets and a radars of the NATO at our borders! The russian government officially offered the United States to create the international system of antimissile defence in Europe and besides suggested to take advantage for this purpose of the russian radar stations directed on the middle east (according to official statements, USA is afraid of threat from outside Iran, isn't so?). But US government has refused this offer. So now neither at russian nor the western political and military experts do not have doubts for what purpose the East Europe countries are accepted in the NATO and against which country the american antimissile defence is directed.

 

That's why Russia resumed regular high-altitude long-range bomber practice flights over the Pacific Ocean. And this flexing of military muscle, as humanbean234 say, didn't just randomly: expanding the NATO on the east and building military objects around borders of Russia, the American government compels Russia to take the answer-back measures. Doing so the government of the USA does not do a life of Americans more safely - absolutely on the contrary. And i don't want to russian people thought about United States as about the enemy, but throughout last several years the US government does for this purpose all possible. And you must know, that some political forces in Russia (not Putin, of course :) some extremists and maybe some communists) play upon heartstrings of citizens to revive an image of America-enemy in human heads, like some american politicians want to american people always view Russia as the "bad guy". It is very dangerous political game! Because the USA and Russia possess the largest nuclear arsenals on the Earth. It is enough of these arsenals that the life has been destroyed on the Earth. Ten years ago i could not think that cold war will renew, but now it has occurred.

 

Anyway, i really glad that among americans there are people who prefer to think, analyze the facts and not to take on trust a words of politicians.

[Lisnpuppy]

Sarya...I am really glad you said that. People in the US and the West in general believe that the information they get is truthful and unbiased. It is not true. I believe in the US there is probably more "access" to different sides of stories and thereby they availability for more truth is there...but it is usually not what is spead about by the mainstream media.

 

I have studied history for a long time. And it is written by the victors. I can not claim to know what all the Russia and Georgia feud is about. I know some and these peoples have an ancient animosity going on. I doubt they will all shake hands and be friends anytime soon.

 

However....as my Momma always said...there are 3 sides to every story. His side, her side and the truth..somewhere in the middle.

 

So I encourage my fellows to read, talk to people like Sarya that live a wee bit closer to the area, check on news articles other than the mainstream and give things a bit of thought. That way maybe..you wont get THE truth...but you will get a hell of a lot closer than before.

[WoogieMonster]

Honestly, I initially tried making a joke about the Georgia that was invaded and the US state to feign ignorance. Unfortunately I couldn't really come up with anything... So just pretend I did, and that it was funny or something.

 

No need to pretend, someone did it for you, but unfortunately, I don't think they were joking:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_y...12173714AAaUvOI

Also, that is not the only person who is having trouble with this.

 

YAY PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!

[desperado2008]

Oh my. So much of theoretizing emotionally about something vaguely known to them. That chinese proverb has some sense in it.

 

Truly, people, you REALLY think YOUR press only gives pure and white truth to you? Well, I congratulate your naivity.

 

But that line about COMMUNISTIC power is a real killer. Varus, do you still live 15 years in the past?

 

 

I don't know what are you talking about，and against whom? If you can't understand chinese proverb well, why not go and learn that language youself?

 

I usually receive news in italian, spanish, english presses, including chinese, of course. but you wouldn't think they lie to me together on purpose, would you?

 

I didn't see any communist here, I am a chinese but I am not communist, you are a russian you are not communist too, then, who is communist in this thread? the americans? sounds ridiculous.

 

I guess there must be somebodies trying to persuade me to fight against communism, but for what? for your arrogance and prejudice?

 

I'm tired of talking about too much.